Gas Pedal Delay

6spd · 05-19-2011, 10:24 AM

Not all ester oils are equal though, some use only a small amount of ester base and still call themselves esteroil. As far as I know, motul is the highest amount. I use the K&N filter btw. I could see the oil causing this problem.

spearfish25 · 05-19-2011, 11:48 AM

I have a very very hard time believing the type of oil is causing this throttle lag issue. What do you think...the engine is partially seizing and having difficulty revving? I don't buy it for one second. This is purely a heat soak and ECU/sensor issue. Let's not bring the 'what oil do you use' voodoo witchcraft into this topic.

DIGItonium · 05-19-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

This is purely a heat soak and ECU/sensor issue. Let's not bring the 'what oil do you use' voodoo witchcraft into this topic.

That's why I wonder about IAT bypass and relocate after reading some articles about owners doing the mod for their car.

As for oil, it was supposedly causing issues with the VVEL mechanism and delaying its response. That's why Nissan recommended their ester oil before following up with an ECU update. I don't think this is an issue anymore.

fuct · 05-19-2011, 01:24 PM

ester oil is not REQUIRED on the 2009 or 2010 either, just recommended. looks like we have alot of bad info flying around.

Davey · 05-19-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I have a very very hard time believing the type of oil is causing this throttle lag issue. What do you think...the engine is partially seizing and having difficulty revving?

No, guessed that perhaps the engine is pulling timing because the valvetrain noise is picked up by the knock sensor.

Really, it's been over two years, and the only thing people have done so far is get runaround from Nissan and trade the car for something else, so, don't fault me for taking a wild guess.

Quote:

I don't buy it for one second. This is purely a heat soak and ECU/sensor issue. Let's not bring the 'what oil do you use' voodoo witchcraft into this topic.

I don't believe it's an issue of "what kind of oil do you use" either, in the sense you're saying, but the inconsistency in being able to reproduce the problem leads me to doubt that it is purely a heat issue.

6spd · 05-19-2011, 01:52 PM

it isnt beyond reasonable to think that certain oils work better in certain motors than others. Sure they can can run fine, but not optimally. Its the same if you run 5w30 or higher in a hybrid, you wont get the best fuel mileage; or if you use a non-pag oil in an a/c compressor, it'll make a lot of noise and eventually explode inside; or how certain transmissions call for certain fluids.

You cant simply put off the idea because you dont believe it to be possible.

DIGItonium · 05-19-2011, 04:31 PM

Davey, how's your 2011 treating you so far? I've not driven the car in over a month, so I have not been able to test anything.

Davey · 05-19-2011, 05:46 PM

I've had no real bad experiences so far.

Twice on a hard right from a dead stop, I felt it cut power very similarly.

The first time it was after rain and about 60 degrees. I caught the VDC light flashing, though I did not feel any real wheelspin.

The 2nd time it was dry, but about 50 degrees out. I didn't see the VDC light, but it felt the same (I had 3/4 tank of gas so it wasn't fuel starvation) and I was definitely not being particularly gentle with the throttle so, I dunno, maybe I just missed the VDC flashing.

Since I've been done with break-in I've driven the car for a good hour or so and then tromped it pretty good and it feels about the same butt-dyno wise as my old HR 350Z, and it seems to get up and move just fine even when I've been in traffic and the oil is up to 220 degrees.

So overall I'd say I'm not seeing the problem, I mean, unless you guys are grossly exaggerating how slow the car is when this happens... I mean, if it feels "maybe a little slower" then perhaps I just don't notice it but if it should feel "a lot slower" then I definitely have not had the issue.

IcedZ · 05-20-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

So overall I'd say I'm not seeing the problem, I mean, unless you guys are grossly exaggerating how slow the car is when this happens... I mean, if it feels "maybe a little slower" then perhaps I just don't notice it but if it should feel "a lot slower" then I definitely have not had the issue.

No, the car FALLS ON IT's FACE. It's terrible. Civic, Prius, you name it will take you for at least 2 car lengths before you can catch up.

L8N8 · 05-20-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcedZ

No, the car FALLS ON IT's FACE. It's terrible. Civic, Prius, you name it will take you for at least 2 car lengths before you can catch up.

Completely agree. I have a stock 2010 Z in which I've only used Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic oil. I've had the issue since last summer and have experienced the delay in almost all 6 gears at one point or another. Sometimes the delay has been brief and barely noticeable; other times it's very prominent and gets me stuck in the middle of an intersection.

DIGItonium · 05-20-2011, 08:37 AM

Davey, these situations do not require full throttle. Let's say you're making a left turn, going across the street, or get the car moving through an intersection from the light. You get in 1st to get the car going as usual and give it the usual moderate throttle. The the car revs to 2k RPM and hangs for about 1-2 seconds before ramping up. Normally the car would simply rev up in a linear fashion. At this point you realize you have to give it slightly more gas than usual or it will bog 1st gear. It simply feels heavy, and it goes from slightly lacking power to having no power. It feels like starting out in 2nd gear. Better yet, it is a similar feeling to VDC/TCS kicking in. No difference with it disabled.

Your instinct tells you to give it more gas, right? So you'll go from 30% to 100% throttle the split second the car is hanging at 2k RPM, and it makes no difference. While holding down the pedal, the car will hang and start to rev up. It does not feel like 100% throttle. The exhaust sounds loud, but it does not scream and the car does not appear to move as fast as it sounds. Passenger would describe it as me lifting my foot and putting it back down. I'll even demonstrate with the foot down to the floor for a few seconds in 2nd to show them I'm really trying to floor it to their disbelief.

Normally the car is eager to rev, and it screams in 1st. Plus, it's easy to peel out from a roll in 1st past 3k RPM. When this power loss kicks in, there's no chance of breaking loose the tires from a roll.

There are cases where I'd like to get the car moving fast as traffic approaches, but it is scary to see it lag for a couple of seconds with the pedal to the floor. Even when it starts moving, it doesn't go crazy with the pedal to the floor. It feels like 50-60% throttle.

I've yet to hear anything from the tech at Baker Nissan.

IcedZ · 05-20-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Davey, these situations do not require full throttle. Let's say you're making a left turn, going across the street, or get the car moving through an intersection from the light. You get in 1st to get the car going as usual and give it the usual moderate throttle. The the car revs to 2k RPM and hangs for about 1-2 seconds before ramping up. Normally the car would simply rev up in a linear fashion. At this point you realize you have to give it slightly more gas than usual or it will bog 1st gear. It simply feels heavy, and it goes from slightly lacking power to having no power. It feels like starting out in 2nd gear. Better yet, it is a similar feeling to VDC/TCS kicking in. No difference with it disabled.

Your instinct tells you to give it more gas, right? So you'll go from 30% to 100% throttle the split second the car is hanging at 2k RPM, and it makes no difference. While holding down the pedal, the car will hang and start to rev up. It does not feel like 100% throttle. The exhaust sounds loud, but it does not scream and the car does not appear to move as fast as it sounds. Passenger would describe it as me lifting my foot and putting it back down. I'll even demonstrate with the foot down to the floor for a few seconds in 2nd to show them I'm really trying to floor it to their disbelief.

Normally the car is eager to rev, and it screams in 1st. Plus, it's easy to peel out from a roll in 1st past 3k RPM. When this power loss kicks in, there's no chance of breaking loose the tires from a roll.

There are cases where I'd like to get the car moving fast as traffic approaches, but it is scary to see it lag for a couple of seconds with the pedal to the floor. Even when it starts moving, it doesn't go crazy with the pedal to the floor. It feels like 50-60% throttle.

I've yet to hear anything from the tech at Baker Nissan.

GREAT description. Thank you, sir.

Davey · 05-21-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcedZ

No, the car FALLS ON IT's FACE. It's terrible. Civic, Prius, you name it will take you for at least 2 car lengths before you can catch up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Davey, these situations do not require full throttle. Let's say you're making a left turn, going across the street, or get the car moving through an intersection from the light. You get in 1st to get the car going as usual and give it the usual moderate throttle. The the car revs to 2k RPM and hangs for about 1-2 seconds before ramping up. Normally the car would simply rev up in a linear fashion. At this point you realize you have to give it slightly more gas than usual or it will bog 1st gear. It simply feels heavy, and it goes from slightly lacking power to having no power. It feels like starting out in 2nd gear. Better yet, it is a similar feeling to VDC/TCS kicking in. No difference with it disabled.

Your instinct tells you to give it more gas, right? So you'll go from 30% to 100% throttle the split second the car is hanging at 2k RPM, and it makes no difference. While holding down the pedal, the car will hang and start to rev up. It does not feel like 100% throttle. The exhaust sounds loud, but it does not scream and the car does not appear to move as fast as it sounds. Passenger would describe it as me lifting my foot and putting it back down. I'll even demonstrate with the foot down to the floor for a few seconds in 2nd to show them I'm really trying to floor it to their disbelief.

Normally the car is eager to rev, and it screams in 1st. Plus, it's easy to peel out from a roll in 1st past 3k RPM. When this power loss kicks in, there's no chance of breaking loose the tires from a roll.

There are cases where I'd like to get the car moving fast as traffic approaches, but it is scary to see it lag for a couple of seconds with the pedal to the floor. Even when it starts moving, it doesn't go crazy with the pedal to the floor. It feels like 50-60% throttle.

I've yet to hear anything from the tech at Baker Nissan.

I drove mine around for about an hour and a half after driving it home from work yesterday, maybe 15 minutes of cooling in between. Oil temps were up near or slightly over 220 the whole time (77 degrees out) and I was on and off the throttle in every gear and I could not say I felt ANYTHING like what you describe.

Every car will get heat-soaked and lose a little power and feel kind of laggy in heavy traffic but a little cruising at speed should clear it up, and it shouldn't be as bad as what you describe! That is crazy!

The only thing I can think is, I tend to roll into the throttle rather than tromp it. I ran mine to redline 3 - 4 times in 1st with the tires warm and I am not feeling it break loose or the VDC come on, but it's definitely going to redline in a big hurry, feels about the same as my old '08 350Z, which is what I'd expect, it's not like an extra 25 hp and 65 lbs less weight makes much difference especially with a passenger in the car.

I also got into it from 2500 RPM in 4th and 5th several times, for short periods, and obviously it wasn't really "fast" even once it got up past 3500 RPM or so but it definitely was pulling harder than the "average" car.

Do you have this stuff happen when you aggressively roll onto the throttle or is it mostly when you stomp it to the floor?

6spd · 05-21-2011, 05:14 PM

yeah i was driving last night in a very secluded area practicing some fishtailing and th car was HOT, but no problems at all like you guys.

DIGItonium · 05-21-2011, 06:08 PM

No there is no need to step on it. It's just casual driving. All of my tests are done while the car is rolling, and it does not involve aggressive driving. If you watch the Youtube video posted, then you can see it's more than just lag. I'll do some more testing sometime once I get the headlights back on.

05-19-2011, 10:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 25	Not all ester oils are equal though, some use only a small amount of ester base and still call themselves esteroil. As far as I know, motul is the highest amount. I use the K&N filter btw. I could see the oil causing this problem. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

05-19-2011, 11:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1857	I have a very very hard time believing the type of oil is causing this throttle lag issue. What do you think...the engine is partially seizing and having difficulty revving? I don't buy it for one second. This is purely a heat soak and ECU/sensor issue. Let's not bring the 'what oil do you use' voodoo witchcraft into this topic. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

05-19-2011, 01:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 25	it isnt beyond reasonable to think that certain oils work better in certain motors than others. Sure they can can run fine, but not optimally. Its the same if you run 5w30 or higher in a hybrid, you wont get the best fuel mileage; or if you use a non-pag oil in an a/c compressor, it'll make a lot of noise and eventually explode inside; or how certain transmissions call for certain fluids. You cant simply put off the idea because you dont believe it to be possible. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

05-19-2011, 04:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Davey, how's your 2011 treating you so far? I've not driven the car in over a month, so I have not been able to test anything. __________________

05-20-2011, 08:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Davey, these situations do not require full throttle. Let's say you're making a left turn, going across the street, or get the car moving through an intersection from the light. You get in 1st to get the car going as usual and give it the usual moderate throttle. The the car revs to 2k RPM and hangs for about 1-2 seconds before ramping up. Normally the car would simply rev up in a linear fashion. At this point you realize you have to give it slightly more gas than usual or it will bog 1st gear. It simply feels heavy, and it goes from slightly lacking power to having no power. It feels like starting out in 2nd gear. Better yet, it is a similar feeling to VDC/TCS kicking in. No difference with it disabled. Your instinct tells you to give it more gas, right? So you'll go from 30% to 100% throttle the split second the car is hanging at 2k RPM, and it makes no difference. While holding down the pedal, the car will hang and start to rev up. It does not feel like 100% throttle. The exhaust sounds loud, but it does not scream and the car does not appear to move as fast as it sounds. Passenger would describe it as me lifting my foot and putting it back down. I'll even demonstrate with the foot down to the floor for a few seconds in 2nd to show them I'm really trying to floor it to their disbelief. Normally the car is eager to rev, and it screams in 1st. Plus, it's easy to peel out from a roll in 1st past 3k RPM. When this power loss kicks in, there's no chance of breaking loose the tires from a roll. There are cases where I'd like to get the car moving fast as traffic approaches, but it is scary to see it lag for a couple of seconds with the pedal to the floor. Even when it starts moving, it doesn't go crazy with the pedal to the floor. It feels like 50-60% throttle. I've yet to hear anything from the tech at Baker Nissan. __________________

05-19-2011, 01:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
fuct A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sugar Land Posts: 3,692 Drives: 97' Ranger :) Rep Power: 24	ester oil is not REQUIRED on the 2009 or 2010 either, just recommended. looks like we have alot of bad info flying around.

05-19-2011, 05:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
Davey A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,766 Drives: '15 NISMO 6MT Rep Power: 117171	I've had no real bad experiences so far. Twice on a hard right from a dead stop, I felt it cut power very similarly. The first time it was after rain and about 60 degrees. I caught the VDC light flashing, though I did not feel any real wheelspin. The 2nd time it was dry, but about 50 degrees out. I didn't see the VDC light, but it felt the same (I had 3/4 tank of gas so it wasn't fuel starvation) and I was definitely not being particularly gentle with the throttle so, I dunno, maybe I just missed the VDC flashing. Since I've been done with break-in I've driven the car for a good hour or so and then tromped it pretty good and it feels about the same butt-dyno wise as my old HR 350Z, and it seems to get up and move just fine even when I've been in traffic and the oil is up to 220 degrees. So overall I'd say I'm not seeing the problem, I mean, unless you guys are grossly exaggerating how slow the car is when this happens... I mean, if it feels "maybe a little slower" then perhaps I just don't notice it but if it should feel "a lot slower" then I definitely have not had the issue.

05-21-2011, 05:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 25	yeah i was driving last night in a very secluded area practicing some fishtailing and th car was HOT, but no problems at all like you guys. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

05-21-2011, 06:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	No there is no need to step on it. It's just casual driving. All of my tests are done while the car is rolling, and it does not involve aggressive driving. If you watch the Youtube video posted, then you can see it's more than just lag. I'll do some more testing sometime once I get the headlights back on. __________________

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