Gas Pedal Delay

IcedZ · 09-07-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TROOPER

So anyone talked to a dealer about this yet?

... Yes. I got blown off. But then again, this dealer is notorious for crappy service. This time I am trying to bring them hard evidence of something, and also going to address it as a safety concern. If that doesn't go anywhere (which I kind of suspect it won't), I will move up the chain.

6spd · 09-07-2010, 08:16 PM

from what has been documented ever since electronic throttles became instituted in just about everything, the real culprit is the time it takes for voltage to be sent from pedal to the ecu to the throttle body to the TPS to the ecu to the injectors, so on and so forth. ET's add extra time to the mix unlike cables that are as close to instant as you can get.

this same idea can be seen clear as day if you hook a volt meter or gauge to your battery and start the car. the meter will read 13.5-7 or so. now have someone rev the motor, and watch the meter or gauge go up to 14.2-7. the jump isn't instant, it climbs, not slowly, but slower than instantly. the increased rpms spin the electromagnets in side the alternator faster, but voltage still has to be transferred.

it seems like this sprint thingy speeds up the process by increasing voltage, making the lag less noticeable.

m4a1mustang · 09-07-2010, 08:20 PM

That's not really what the issue many of us are describing, though. Of course there's going to be a signal delay, but with this, the engine responds, bogs for 2-3 seconds, then surges forward.

What would happen to me is I'd give the car throttle and initially get put back in my seat, only for the car to STOP accelerating, bog for 2-3 seconds, all while lunging me forward because I was bracing for acceleration... then all of a sudden it'd violently take off again. It felt more like fuel starvation or TC/VDC cutting power more than anything else, although there's no evidence to suggest that's the case. That's what it feels like, though.

Bottom line is I solved the problem... I bought a new car. :/

L8N8 · 09-07-2010, 10:27 PM

^^sucks you had to give up the car to fix the issue.

For whatever it's worth, I haven't done any performance mods yet. The car is bone stock with this acceleration issue. I'm going to be giving it to Nissan for a couple days this week so they can troubleshoot it. If they can't do anything with it and no one has found a fix on this site by then, I'll press on with new intakes and possibly a tune. If nothing by then, I'll seriously consider going the route the previous poster has just taken.

6spd · 09-07-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

That's not really what the issue many of us are describing, though. Of course there's going to be a signal delay, but with this, the engine responds, bogs for 2-3 seconds, then surges forward.

What would happen to me is I'd give the car throttle and initially get put back in my seat, only for the car to STOP accelerating, bog for 2-3 seconds, all while lunging me forward because I was bracing for acceleration... then all of a sudden it'd violently take off again. It felt more like fuel starvation or TC/VDC cutting power more than anything else, although there's no evidence to suggest that's the case. That's what it feels like, though.

Bottom line is I solved the problem... I bought a new car. :/

gotcha, how do you like the 'stang? things beast and a half i hear.

I get what you describe real bad in first gear, even before the vdc would, i assume, kick in, as well as low rpm 2nd and 3rd.

m4a1mustang · 09-08-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8N8

^^sucks you had to give up the car to fix the issue.

For whatever it's worth, I haven't done any performance mods yet. The car is bone stock with this acceleration issue. I'm going to be giving it to Nissan for a couple days this week so they can troubleshoot it. If they can't do anything with it and no one has found a fix on this site by then, I'll press on with new intakes and possibly a tune. If nothing by then, I'll seriously consider going the route the previous poster has just taken.

I had intakes, exhaust, and a tune and it didn't make a difference at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

gotcha, how do you like the 'stang? things beast and a half i hear.

I get what you describe real bad in first gear, even before the vdc would, i assume, kick in, as well as low rpm 2nd and 3rd.

I love it. It's an amazing car.

christian370z · 09-08-2010, 07:19 PM

I don't have delay like most here have, mine just feels like it does not have a sense of urgency when I step on the gas. The power is there, but it does feel like it is because the power does not come on instantly. The car is going to Seb at SpecialtyZ next wednesday for a full tune so I hope he can work on the throttle map and perk it up a bit.

I look forward to seeing the results of the tune!

6spd · 09-08-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

I don't have delay like most here have, mine just feels like it does not have a sense of urgency when I step on the gas. The power is there, but it does feel like it is because the power does not come on instantly. The car is going to Seb at SpecialtyZ next wednesday for a full tune so I hope he can work on the throttle map and perk it up a bit.

I look forward to seeing the results of the tune!

that is probably the most reliable thing to do. that way everything works in harmony without any tom-foolery.

I drove around earlier and i don't think i have a problem at all when the vdc is off, instant power on demand, but a cable throttle i would still prefer.

IcedZ · 09-08-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

from what has been documented ever since electronic throttles became instituted in just about everything, the real culprit is the time it takes for voltage to be sent from pedal to the ecu to the throttle body to the TPS to the ecu to the injectors, so on and so forth. ET's add extra time to the mix unlike cables that are as close to instant as you can get.

this same idea can be seen clear as day if you hook a volt meter or gauge to your battery and start the car. the meter will read 13.5-7 or so. now have someone rev the motor, and watch the meter or gauge go up to 14.2-7. the jump isn't instant, it climbs, not slowly, but slower than instantly. the increased rpms spin the electromagnets in side the alternator faster, but voltage still has to be transferred.

it seems like this sprint thingy speeds up the process by increasing voltage, making the lag less noticeable.

You do know electricity travels at roughly C (the speed of light - 3 MILLION meters per SECOND)... and most processors these days process data in fractions of milliseconds.

IcedZ · 09-08-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

That's not really what the issue many of us are describing, though. Of course there's going to be a signal delay, but with this, the engine responds, bogs for 2-3 seconds, then surges forward.

What would happen to me is I'd give the car throttle and initially get put back in my seat, only for the car to STOP accelerating, bog for 2-3 seconds, all while lunging me forward because I was bracing for acceleration... then all of a sudden it'd violently take off again. It felt more like fuel starvation or TC/VDC cutting power more than anything else, although there's no evidence to suggest that's the case. That's what it feels like, though.

Bottom line is I solved the problem... I bought a new car. :/

Exactly. It is almost completely unresponsive for 2 or so seconds. The thing that I don't get is that it's very intermittent. Sometimes it's just a little unresponsive for that time, other times it almost doesn't do anything at all, then sometimes it's just fine! Hopefully you'll have better luck dealing with them! Please let us know if you do. I've been brushed off.

m4a1mustang · 09-08-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcedZ

Exactly. It is almost completely unresponsive for 2 or so seconds. The thing that I don't get is that it's very intermittent. Sometimes it's just a little unresponsive for that time, other times it almost doesn't do anything at all, then sometimes it's just fine! Hopefully you'll have better luck dealing with them! Please let us know if you do. I've been brushed off.

I was thinking maybe it was some sort of torque management, but there's no way it could be that considering how violently it lays down the power once it decides to go.

Anyways, I don't have to worry about it anymore since I sold the Z. :/

I certainly hope you guys can come to a solution. I know just how annoying (and dangerous) it can be.

6spd · 09-08-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcedZ

You do know electricity travels at roughly C (the speed of light - 3 MILLION meters per SECOND)... and most processors these days process data in fractions of milliseconds.

yep you're right, but step motors, ecu's, sensors, and relays dont work that fast. the step motors in the throttle dont snap closed to fully open at the speed of light - 3 million meters per second, it is gradual, as is the depression of the gas pedal.

JayYoon · 09-09-2010, 12:52 AM

3-5 secs is a long time... r u sure thats the right amount of delay?

cossie1600 · 09-09-2010, 01:19 AM

Are some of you kidding me? 2 sec delay? Geez. That's right, there is a 2 sec delay in a car that runs 13 sec in the quarter mile.

WarmAndSCSI · 09-09-2010, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

yep you're right, but step motors, ecu's, sensors, and relays dont work that fast. the step motors in the throttle dont snap closed to fully open at the speed of light - 3 million meters per second, it is gradual, as is the depression of the gas pedal.

The throttle plates on the VHR are fully open during normal operation - the VVEL actually throttles the engine by adjusting lift.

09-07-2010, 08:16 PM	#212 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 25	from what has been documented ever since electronic throttles became instituted in just about everything, the real culprit is the time it takes for voltage to be sent from pedal to the ecu to the throttle body to the TPS to the ecu to the injectors, so on and so forth. ET's add extra time to the mix unlike cables that are as close to instant as you can get. this same idea can be seen clear as day if you hook a volt meter or gauge to your battery and start the car. the meter will read 13.5-7 or so. now have someone rev the motor, and watch the meter or gauge go up to 14.2-7. the jump isn't instant, it climbs, not slowly, but slower than instantly. the increased rpms spin the electromagnets in side the alternator faster, but voltage still has to be transferred. it seems like this sprint thingy speeds up the process by increasing voltage, making the lag less noticeable. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

09-07-2010, 08:20 PM	#213 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	That's not really what the issue many of us are describing, though. Of course there's going to be a signal delay, but with this, the engine responds, bogs for 2-3 seconds, then surges forward. What would happen to me is I'd give the car throttle and initially get put back in my seat, only for the car to STOP accelerating, bog for 2-3 seconds, all while lunging me forward because I was bracing for acceleration... then all of a sudden it'd violently take off again. It felt more like fuel starvation or TC/VDC cutting power more than anything else, although there's no evidence to suggest that's the case. That's what it feels like, though. Bottom line is I solved the problem... I bought a new car. :/ __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

09-08-2010, 07:19 PM	#217 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	I don't have delay like most here have, mine just feels like it does not have a sense of urgency when I step on the gas. The power is there, but it does feel like it is because the power does not come on instantly. The car is going to Seb at SpecialtyZ next wednesday for a full tune so I hope he can work on the throttle map and perk it up a bit. I look forward to seeing the results of the tune! __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

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09-07-2010, 10:27 PM	#214 (permalink)
L8N8 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: VA Posts: 36 Drives: fast, takes chances Rep Power: 15	^^sucks you had to give up the car to fix the issue. For whatever it's worth, I haven't done any performance mods yet. The car is bone stock with this acceleration issue. I'm going to be giving it to Nissan for a couple days this week so they can troubleshoot it. If they can't do anything with it and no one has found a fix on this site by then, I'll press on with new intakes and possibly a tune. If nothing by then, I'll seriously consider going the route the previous poster has just taken.

09-09-2010, 12:52 AM	#223 (permalink)
JayYoon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: san diego Posts: 452 Drives: 2010 370z Rep Power: 15	3-5 secs is a long time... r u sure thats the right amount of delay?

09-09-2010, 01:19 AM	#224 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Are some of you kidding me? 2 sec delay? Geez. That's right, there is a 2 sec delay in a car that runs 13 sec in the quarter mile.