First Oil Change

Billarf · 05-21-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Is this your first car???

Well, I'm 61 years old and to date I have owned over 19 -new- performance cars and trucks. Actually at 19 new vehicles I lost track or gave up counting I guess you would say. I have owned Vette, Cobra, Porsche, Mustang, Ford Lighting, 280Z turbo and the likes.

I have always filled a stock vehicle with the recommended fill amount as per the factory. If the factory says 6 quarts it is six quarts. Says 5 1/8 it is 5 1/8. I am by the way, a bit of a motor head and have been for many years. I do most of my own vehicle work/mods. I'm into High performance cars, bikes, 4 wheelers. In regard to the 370Z. It has a low and high mark (no actual full mark) and the manual clearly states proper fill is between the two marks with recommended oil input at oil change (per factory) being 5 1/8 quarts. Indeed filling up to the high mark on the 370Z dip stick is usually alright and as you said will keep you in oil lets say longer since the 370Z seems to like to use oil. Point I wanted to make is that FACT is the proper fill per the manual is 5 1/8 regardless of the rationale of someone on a forum. For me over filling that a novice or anyone at that matter might due is harmful in itself. Best bet is to teach / preach what the factory says and not what some forum individual decides is best. Hopefully, this thread will make those here that are not savvy know that overfilling is an issue just as under filling/running low is. The really best bet is to fill as per the FACTORY recommendation for the 370Z which is 5 quarts 4 ounces and then monitor your dipstick religiously/closely. Add oil as needed. Keep the oil level of an at operating temperature 370Z between the low and high marks on the dipstick just as Nissan recommends.

Yes, more oil offers more cooling, etc. and sure a few ounces more is a plus but if you are going to preach /recommend extra oil by over filling then state the factory recommendation and then your work around / idea of how to get more oil in the picture via overfilling. Teach by the book and then give your personal ideas and let the vehicle owner decide what he or she wants to do.

Billarf · 05-21-2010, 06:36 PM

Taken directly from the 370z manual

Modshack · 05-21-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billarf

Well, I'm 61 years old and to date I have owned over 19 -new- performance cars and trucks. Actually at 19 new vehicles I lost track or gave up counting I guess you would say. I have owned Vette, Cobra, Porsche, Mustang, Ford Lighting, 280Z turbo and the likes.

Yeah, well I'm the same age and have had 57 High Performance cars. Filling to the H mark is always what I've done. It's the best way to monitor usage between changes. Do what you want...I don't really care. Too many here don't even check anyway until the engine starts making noises. With this crowd, buying a little time is the difference between trashing a motor or not.. It's happened more than a few times here.

Billarf · 05-21-2010, 07:04 PM

I'm not wanting to be-labor a point or get into a pissing contest here.. I just think since so many novices are here (first time car owners, young guys/gals) that info posted should be factual and by the manual. Armed with the facts / by the manual recommendations the vehicle owner can now decide what he or she personally with knowledge wants to do. Going per the manual or ignoring same is the owner's decision.

As for me if the manual says proper fill is such a spot on the dipstick then that is the fill point! If I want more oil in the system I go with a larger aftermarket oil pan, cooler, oil filter..... I am always very careful to warn a novice lets say that overfilling an engine can cause major, major issues just as running low on oil. As mentioned I try to pound into their heads, check oil levels routinely and throw in caveats about tire pressure, etc.

Mod Shack .... Did not mean to step on your toes or to

. I from reading your posts on this forum do know that you are lets say savvy and provide lots and lots of valuable info here.

ChrisSlicks · 05-21-2010, 09:50 PM

As you said yourself, the manual states that proper fill is between the L and H marks. It does not say half-way between, so the common interpretation is that safe operation is anywhere between the marks. Given that the vehicle likes to consume oil, filling as close as possible to the H mark without going over is always going to be the safest approach long term. However in using this technique you have to give plenty of time for the oil to drain to the bottom of the pan to get an accurate reading.

toner123 · 05-21-2010, 10:46 PM

Well not like anyone asked for my opinion but here it is lol. First off I am in the Navy and I work on helicopters, MH-60S. I work in the Power Plants work center and pretty much my job is the maintaining of Turbo Shaft Engines, Rotor systems, and Gear Boxes. Now are engines both have a high and a low mark. To put it short if I CDI (inspector) a engine servicing to the high mark I am going to be in a world of sh$t. Now I can provide explaining on why we don't service it that high. As we all know when oil heats up it expands, well if there is to much oil in there you will have more expansion and no where for the oil to go. So if there is no where for the oil to go its going to start making its own room by pushing through seals, and working its way to the combustion section. Well I am no car guru but i can promise you that a car engine works the same exact way. The reason I would imagine Nissan has you service it that much is that it allows the room for expansion. The higher you put your oil on the dipstick from the recommended point is the less open room your oil has to expand. Now i promise you that if you start your car let it get to operating temp then shut it off and wait 15mins-1hr that your oil level is going to be way above that H mark if you are servicing it there, due to the expansion. Now service the car with the recommended oil amount and do the same thing it will be at the High point which is fine because the oil expanded and it is still in the safe range. So in other words I agree with Billarf, you want the oil to have room to expand or your going to ruin your engine. Oil is Oil regardless on what you use it on, basic characteristics apply. I am a person that does maintenance by the book, in my job if you don't then you kill someone The info i just gave is how we service a multi million dollar engine so we don't destroy it or kill someone due to it failing. What I say is it is your car do what ever the heck you want with it, run it in to a wall, drive it into a lake, go drive it with out any oil for all I car as long as no one gets hurt. I will service my oil to what Nissan says to service it to because I know what can happen with to much oil.

Frank

The BlueMax · 05-23-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toner123

Well not like anyone asked for my opinion but here it is lol. First off I am in the Navy and I work on helicopters, MH-60S. I work in the Power Plants work center and pretty much my job is the maintaining of Turbo Shaft Engines, Rotor systems, and Gear Boxes. Now are engines both have a high and a low mark. To put it short if I CDI (inspector) a engine servicing to the high mark I am going to be in a world of sh$t. Now I can provide explaining on why we don't service it that high. As we all know when oil heats up it expands, well if there is to much oil in there you will have more expansion and no where for the oil to go. So if there is no where for the oil to go its going to start making its own room by pushing through seals, and working its way to the combustion section. Well I am no car guru but i can promise you that a car engine works the same exact way. The reason I would imagine Nissan has you service it that much is that it allows the room for expansion. The higher you put your oil on the dipstick from the recommended point is the less open room your oil has to expand. Now i promise you that if you start your car let it get to operating temp then shut it off and wait 15mins-1hr that your oil level is going to be way above that H mark if you are servicing it there, due to the expansion. Now service the car with the recommended oil amount and do the same thing it will be at the High point which is fine because the oil expanded and it is still in the safe range. So in other words I agree with Billarf, you want the oil to have room to expand or your going to ruin your engine. Oil is Oil regardless on what you use it on, basic characteristics apply. I am a person that does maintenance by the book, in my job if you don't then you kill someone The info i just gave is how we service a multi million dollar engine so we don't destroy it or kill someone due to it failing. What I say is it is your car do what ever the heck you want with it, run it in to a wall, drive it into a lake, go drive it with out any oil for all I car as long as no one gets hurt. I will service my oil to what Nissan says to service it to because I know what can happen with to much oil.

Frank

Toner, it looks like you leveled off the conversation with your background satistics, so far with just over 2500 miles the car sounds and runs good, learning how to drive a car with a higher rpm powerband. I have the last year LT1 small block to drive and the sound, torque,and gearbox is totally different from the Z./

ChrisSlicks · 05-24-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toner123

Well not like anyone asked for my opinion but here it is lol. First off I am in the Navy and I work on helicopters, MH-60S. I work in the Power Plants work center and pretty much my job is the maintaining of Turbo Shaft Engines, Rotor systems, and Gear Boxes. Now are engines both have a high and a low mark. To put it short if I CDI (inspector) a engine servicing to the high mark I am going to be in a world of sh$t. Now I can provide explaining on why we don't service it that high. As we all know when oil heats up it expands, well if there is to much oil in there you will have more expansion and no where for the oil to go. So if there is no where for the oil to go its going to start making its own room by pushing through seals, and working its way to the combustion section. Well I am no car guru but i can promise you that a car engine works the same exact way. The reason I would imagine Nissan has you service it that much is that it allows the room for expansion. The higher you put your oil on the dipstick from the recommended point is the less open room your oil has to expand. Now i promise you that if you start your car let it get to operating temp then shut it off and wait 15mins-1hr that your oil level is going to be way above that H mark if you are servicing it there, due to the expansion. Now service the car with the recommended oil amount and do the same thing it will be at the High point which is fine because the oil expanded and it is still in the safe range. So in other words I agree with Billarf, you want the oil to have room to expand or your going to ruin your engine. Oil is Oil regardless on what you use it on, basic characteristics apply. I am a person that does maintenance by the book, in my job if you don't then you kill someone The info i just gave is how we service a multi million dollar engine so we don't destroy it or kill someone due to it failing. What I say is it is your car do what ever the heck you want with it, run it in to a wall, drive it into a lake, go drive it with out any oil for all I car as long as no one gets hurt. I will service my oil to what Nissan says to service it to because I know what can happen with to much oil.

That's why I only add 5 quarts, then run the engine for a while to get the oil warmed up, and then after letting it sit decide how much oil needs to be added.

A wet sump car engine couldn't be more different than a gas turbine (such as a turboshaft). Wet sump engines collect oil in the sump under gravity, there is plenty of large air pockets that allow expansion. Overfilling by a couple of oz isn't going to make your engine explode (overfilling by a lot will). The last time (and the only time) I had my Nissan serviced by the dealer they filled the oil to the H mark. They know these cars, they know they burn oil, so the closer you get to the H mark the better chance that the next time they see the car it will still be above the L mark (as 90% of the drivers don't bother to check in between services).

toner123 · 05-24-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

That's why I only add 5 quarts, then run the engine for a while to get the oil warmed up, and then after letting it sit decide how much oil needs to be added.

A wet sump car engine couldn't be more different than a gas turbine (such as a turboshaft). Wet sump engines collect oil in the sump under gravity, there is plenty of large air pockets that allow expansion. Overfilling by a couple of oz isn't going to make your engine explode (overfilling by a lot will). The last time (and the only time) I had my Nissan serviced by the dealer they filled the oil to the H mark. They know these cars, they know they burn oil, so the closer you get to the H mark the better chance that the next time they see the car it will still be above the L mark (as 90% of the drivers don't bother to check in between services).

Its like I said man do what you want. I just had my oil changed in my car and the oil lvl is half way between the two holes. last oil change was by the same person at the dealership. That tells me that my car isn't burning any oil since thats where it was before i brought it in to get the oil change. These cars have a ton of oill pressure and high oil temps. So the last thing I am going to do is put more oil in it. You should be checking your oil often between oil changes anyway. To add to your comment about the techs knowing these cars, well I promise you the engineer knows more. Hell this isn't really a new engine so I think they would account for it to be up to the H mark IMO. Nissan doesn't want to replace engines for free so they would tell you to put more oil if they know it is eating oil. Atleast from my stand point thats what I would do if I owned the place. Like I said this is my two cents and I know it wasn't asked for I am just giving my thoughts from what I have seen.

Frank

PS even if we service a engine 4 oz over in my job your still getting your butt chewed and your deservicing the engine. My job is 100% attention to detail. The detail to nissan is 5 1/8 If you choose to do other wise then it's on you, your the one making the payments =)

Billarf · 05-24-2010, 09:27 PM

As mentioned earlier in this thread....

In regard to the 370Z. It has a low and high mark (no actual full mark) and the manual clearly states proper fill is between the two holes on the dipstick with recommended oil input at oil change (per factory) being 5 1/8 quarts. FACT is the proper fill per the manual is 5 1/8 regardless of the rationale of someone on a forum. For me over filling that a novice or anyone at that matter might due is harmful in itself. Best bet is to teach / preach what the factory says and not what some forum individual decides is best. Hopefully, this thread will make those here that are not savvy know that overfilling is an issue just as under filling/running low is. The really best bet is to fill as per the FACTORY recommendation for the 370Z which is 5 quarts 4 ounces and then monitor your dipstick religiously/closely. Add oil as needed. Keep the oil level of an at operating temperature 370Z between the low and high marks on the dipstick just as Nissan recommends.

05-21-2010, 09:50 PM	#20 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	As you said yourself, the manual states that proper fill is between the L and H marks. It does not say half-way between, so the common interpretation is that safe operation is anywhere between the marks. Given that the vehicle likes to consume oil, filling as close as possible to the H mark without going over is always going to be the safest approach long term. However in using this technique you have to give plenty of time for the oil to drain to the bottom of the pan to get an accurate reading. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

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05-21-2010, 06:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
Billarf Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY Posts: 132 Drives: . Rep Power: 15	Taken directly from the 370z manual

05-21-2010, 07:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
Billarf Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY Posts: 132 Drives: . Rep Power: 15	I'm not wanting to be-labor a point or get into a pissing contest here.. I just think since so many novices are here (first time car owners, young guys/gals) that info posted should be factual and by the manual. Armed with the facts / by the manual recommendations the vehicle owner can now decide what he or she personally with knowledge wants to do. Going per the manual or ignoring same is the owner's decision. As for me if the manual says proper fill is such a spot on the dipstick then that is the fill point! If I want more oil in the system I go with a larger aftermarket oil pan, cooler, oil filter..... I am always very careful to warn a novice lets say that overfilling an engine can cause major, major issues just as running low on oil. As mentioned I try to pound into their heads, check oil levels routinely and throw in caveats about tire pressure, etc. Mod Shack .... Did not mean to step on your toes or to . I from reading your posts on this forum do know that you are lets say savvy and provide lots and lots of valuable info here.

05-21-2010, 10:46 PM	#21 (permalink)
toner123 Track Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: chesapeake va Age: 39 Posts: 823 Drives: TT 370z Touring/SP Rep Power: 16	Well not like anyone asked for my opinion but here it is lol. First off I am in the Navy and I work on helicopters, MH-60S. I work in the Power Plants work center and pretty much my job is the maintaining of Turbo Shaft Engines, Rotor systems, and Gear Boxes. Now are engines both have a high and a low mark. To put it short if I CDI (inspector) a engine servicing to the high mark I am going to be in a world of sh$t. Now I can provide explaining on why we don't service it that high. As we all know when oil heats up it expands, well if there is to much oil in there you will have more expansion and no where for the oil to go. So if there is no where for the oil to go its going to start making its own room by pushing through seals, and working its way to the combustion section. Well I am no car guru but i can promise you that a car engine works the same exact way. The reason I would imagine Nissan has you service it that much is that it allows the room for expansion. The higher you put your oil on the dipstick from the recommended point is the less open room your oil has to expand. Now i promise you that if you start your car let it get to operating temp then shut it off and wait 15mins-1hr that your oil level is going to be way above that H mark if you are servicing it there, due to the expansion. Now service the car with the recommended oil amount and do the same thing it will be at the High point which is fine because the oil expanded and it is still in the safe range. So in other words I agree with Billarf, you want the oil to have room to expand or your going to ruin your engine. Oil is Oil regardless on what you use it on, basic characteristics apply. I am a person that does maintenance by the book, in my job if you don't then you kill someone The info i just gave is how we service a multi million dollar engine so we don't destroy it or kill someone due to it failing. What I say is it is your car do what ever the heck you want with it, run it in to a wall, drive it into a lake, go drive it with out any oil for all I car as long as no one gets hurt. I will service my oil to what Nissan says to service it to because I know what can happen with to much oil. Frank

05-24-2010, 09:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
Billarf Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY Posts: 132 Drives: . Rep Power: 15	As mentioned earlier in this thread.... In regard to the 370Z. It has a low and high mark (no actual full mark) and the manual clearly states proper fill is between the two holes on the dipstick with recommended oil input at oil change (per factory) being 5 1/8 quarts. FACT is the proper fill per the manual is 5 1/8 regardless of the rationale of someone on a forum. For me over filling that a novice or anyone at that matter might due is harmful in itself. Best bet is to teach / preach what the factory says and not what some forum individual decides is best. Hopefully, this thread will make those here that are not savvy know that overfilling is an issue just as under filling/running low is. The really best bet is to fill as per the FACTORY recommendation for the 370Z which is 5 quarts 4 ounces and then monitor your dipstick religiously/closely. Add oil as needed. Keep the oil level of an at operating temperature 370Z between the low and high marks on the dipstick just as Nissan recommends.