Is a juddery clutch common?

kenchan · 04-23-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKPAC

That clutch is why I went with the 7AT. Piss poor design at best.

nono, you just dont know how to drive stick.

BrianMSmith · 04-23-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6MT

Ridiculous, all of it. While this manual is not the smoothest I've driven, it is one of the most precise. "Juddery"?..... MORE rpms man!! Learn how to properly drive a manual before commenting. I know, I'll get flamed for this, but I've driven manual gearboxed cars from Audi's to the Z and everything in between. I just don't see all the complaints. Just get over it and learn how to properly drive one or go with the 7AT.

Wow!

I have driven a manual every day for 25 years now, many cars, and this one is the worst. Annoying, but I can live with it. Given time, I can probably adjust and figure out what it likes, which seems to be lots of revs. Any car has it's faults. My 9 year old Camaro SS is fantastic compared to this Nissan, better feel, much smoother. Less precision can actually be a good thing.

JACKPAC · 04-23-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

nono, you just dont know how to drive stick.

I've driven stick for many years. I would entertain your assumption if I was the only one on here that thinks it's crap... but look around, I'm by far NOT the only one.

kfscoll · 04-23-2010, 03:56 PM

I suck at driving stick, but my transmission seems fine as long as I "launch" with the tach at 2K RPM or higher. Even below that it's not bad unless I let the clutch out too fast. I'll tell you this...never in a million years would I trade this "piss poor" 6MT for a 7AT. I had a 2001 Corvette with an automatic and it's just so much more engaging and fun to drive a manual.

rj45 · 04-23-2010, 05:40 PM

I've been driving manuals for over 20 years. The judder (or chatter) I'm experiencing is not due to operator error. The car will pull away more smoothly with added rpm, but there really shouldn't be clutch chatter when leaving at 1200-1400 rpm...that's plenty of revs for a smooth, easy take-off. AFAIK, clutches with ceramic-metallic linings can exhibit this trait. I'm not sure if our cars have them, though.

To my knowledge, in years past, only certain aftermarket high performance clutches would chatter at low rpm. This is the first production car I've owned with clutch chatter. It's not really bad, I'd call it mild, but it should be smooth.

zilent_jay · 04-23-2010, 06:11 PM

Mine has the same judder. My lightweight flywheel/clutch on my 350z did the same thing..... although the stock setup was perfectly smooth no matter what you did.

Operator error? Uh, no.....

6MT · 04-23-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilent_jay

Operator error? Uh, no.....

......Yep!!

Brendan@Bwalk · 04-23-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj45

I've been driving manuals for over 20 years. The judder (or chatter) I'm experiencing is not due to operator error. The car will pull away more smoothly with added rpm, but there really shouldn't be clutch chatter when leaving at 1200-1400 rpm...that's plenty of revs for a smooth, easy take-off. AFAIK, clutches with ceramic-metallic linings can exhibit this trait. I'm not sure if our cars have them, though.

To my knowledge, in years past, only certain aftermarket high performance clutches would chatter at low rpm. This is the first production car I've owned with clutch chatter. It's not really bad, I'd call it mild, but it should be smooth.

It's mildly annoying (and my car which isn't a Z does the exact same thing), but it's pretty easy to drive around.

tjlazer · 04-23-2010, 06:30 PM

All this "you don't know how to drive a stick" from all these expert race car drivers is a laugh. I have driven a stick for 20 years, and I also own a 300ZX Twin Turbo stick, and I have to say the 6MT in my 370Z is harder to drive and it is a pain. But you do get used to it. I use to burn my clutch every single day for 2 months after I got my car. Stalled it a dozen times since I've owned it too. Not sure if it's "broken in more" or I got better at using it. But comparing the two cars, the Z32 has a much easier to use clutch. And my yes Z32 is faster than my Z34 (for now, LOL)

TheWeatherman · 04-23-2010, 07:18 PM

Uh oh, here comes the flaming... My brothers 2009 Jeep Wrangler with the 6-speed manual has an easier to use, smoother tranny than the Z. The only thing that is worse with the Jeep is it doesn't have SRM. I must emphasize, I love my Z though. Love love love my car.

I probably will be trading in my '09 Infin FX35 when the brand new, redesigned Wrangler comes out. I love his Wrangler... a lot. I feel the Americans are coming back. (His Jeep SRT destroys my Z. It's kind of funny.)

Please guys, really, I love my Z, and will buy another when a redesign comes out.

Xan · 04-23-2010, 09:42 PM

I never said the manual is as smooth as driving a Camry, but you also have to realize there is a bit more torque that needs to go through the drivetrain then in your family sedan...

And I'm not claiming to be a race car driver, far from it, but my clutch really makes no sound what so ever when I shift gears, nor has my car stalled. And I certainly don't rev the engine higher....

Now there is also the fact, that not all are alike. I have heard the same aftermarket clutch in two different cars, where one would be quite and the other would be loud.
Both seem to have no installment issues... that said, a little lubrication goes a long way.... and that could be the case when they put our transmission together as well.

Here is another article that might shed some light as to why some people are experiencing more judder then others...

There are a large number of problems that can cause clutch judder (originally a British term). The problem generally happens when your car is at a complete stop and you engage the clutch. The clutch jerks, alternately gripping and slipping when you let the pedal out. Judder is not only an irritation, but a safety hazard as well.

Parts of the Clutch
A clutch is made up of three different parts: (1) The clutch disk is the "sticky" part of the assembly, which transfers the engine's power from the fly wheel to (2) the pressure plate, which connects to the transmission. (3) The release bearing connects to the clutch pedal, and it unites or separates the other two pieces as necessary. Any of these parts can interrupt the chain of power transfer, and cause the clutch to judder.

Distortion
If the pressure plate gets overheated--perhaps from letting your foot rest on the clutch pedal, constantly causing the contact between the plate and the disk to change--hot spots can form that warp the pressure plate, or the disk can wear unevenly. Once this happens, consistent contact is impossible. Likewise, if the plate gets bent during assembly, or if the flywheel was resurfaced unevenly, it will not apply pressure consistently when it is engaged against the disk. A warped clutch disk can have the same effect; uneven wear patterns will cause slippage. Incorrectly-torqued screws can distort components also.

Drivetrain Misalignment
Anything that gets the "line of transmission" off-center can cause problems. On the motor side of things, defective motor mounts can allow the motor to angle slightly, or a misaligned flywheel can cause a wobbling effect as it rotates. On the transmission side of the clutch assembly, similar problems could include bad transmission mounts, bent transmission tie bars, bad or misaligned U-joints or a driveshaft installed at too sharp an angle to the transmission.

Contamination
Sometimes oil or dirt can get on the face of the pressure plate, creating slick spots that grab for a moment before losing traction against the clutch disk. The clutch disk can also get contaminated, as it is generally made from the same materials as your brake pads. Oil and grease can also contaminate rubber mounts. If the rubber softens, it will deform and allow excessive movement and/or misalignment.

Defective Parts
While it is not as likely as some of the other causes of clutch judder, you could simply have a part that was defective from the start. A small percentage of defects during manufacture is inevitable, and even the best inspection system will not catch them all. Besides the obvious possibility of a distorted pressure plate or clutch disk, the moving parts of the release bearing should also be checked.

Jeffblue · 04-23-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

Uh oh, here comes the flaming... My brothers 2009 Jeep Wrangler with the 6-speed manual has an easier to use, smoother tranny than the Z. The only thing that is worse with the Jeep is it doesn't have SRM. I must emphasize, I love my Z though. Love love love my car.

I probably will be trading in my '09 Infin FX35 when the brand new, redesigned Wrangler comes out. I love his Wrangler... a lot. I feel the Americans are coming back. (His Jeep SRT destroys my Z. It's kind of funny.)

Please guys, really, I love my Z, and will buy another when a redesign comes out.

i learned how to drive stick on a friend's '94 wrangler 5 speed, and then that same friend sold that wrangler and got an '87 300zx. The wrangler was easier to drive for me being totally new. Based on my experience, i'm pretty sure that the transmission in a wrangler is easier to use than a sports car.
Furthermore, i think that makes perfect sense and in no way means there is something wrong with the Z. A M/T wrangler should be easier to drive than a M/T sports car.

fisherg · 04-24-2010, 02:15 PM

I rent 10 cars a year or more in Europe and most are manuals (Fords, VW's, Citroens, Renaults etc..). Most of those clutches are like pushing on a pillow but I would never want that in my "Z". You need to have a clutch that has resistance and you know is there. That said the stock clutch should be relatively free of shudder when engaging on startup. I'm not sure but I think the assembly tolerances required for this car are pretty tight perhaps tighter than can be maintained to ensure consistent jitter free operation from unit to unit. That said nearly all of these cars run fine at delivery and will likely not experience premature wear but its clear that its not perfect.

Elan · 04-05-2014, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMSmith

I have driven a manual every day for 25 years now, many cars, and this one is the worst. Annoying, but I can live with it. Given time, I can probably adjust and figure out what it likes, which seems to be lots of revs. Any car has it's faults. My 9 year old Camaro SS is fantastic compared to this Nissan, better feel, much smoother. Less precision can actually be a good thing.

Yes but it's funny to see friends start questioning their manual driving skills when they try to drive the car!

Fountainhead · 04-05-2014, 10:27 PM

In the early morning when cold, my clutch seems to "judder" when I release but after a 1/4 mile or so it seems to loosen up. Think it's a temperature thing. I'll be the first to admit the manual in the Z is a learning experience for sure. It doesn't like to be babied, I can tell you that. It seems to say "harder, faster" every time I shift it.

04-23-2010, 05:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
rj45 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 60 Drives: 40th Anniversary Z Rep Power: 15	I've been driving manuals for over 20 years. The judder (or chatter) I'm experiencing is not due to operator error. The car will pull away more smoothly with added rpm, but there really shouldn't be clutch chatter when leaving at 1200-1400 rpm...that's plenty of revs for a smooth, easy take-off. AFAIK, clutches with ceramic-metallic linings can exhibit this trait. I'm not sure if our cars have them, though. To my knowledge, in years past, only certain aftermarket high performance clutches would chatter at low rpm. This is the first production car I've owned with clutch chatter. It's not really bad, I'd call it mild, but it should be smooth. Last edited by rj45; 04-23-2010 at 05:46 PM.

04-23-2010, 06:30 PM	#24 (permalink)
tjlazer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tacoma Age: 53 Posts: 2,496 Drives: Z34, R35 Rep Power: 19	All this "you don't know how to drive a stick" from all these expert race car drivers is a laugh. I have driven a stick for 20 years, and I also own a 300ZX Twin Turbo stick, and I have to say the 6MT in my 370Z is harder to drive and it is a pain. But you do get used to it. I use to burn my clutch every single day for 2 months after I got my car. Stalled it a dozen times since I've owned it too. Not sure if it's "broken in more" or I got better at using it. But comparing the two cars, the Z32 has a much easier to use clutch. And my yes Z32 is faster than my Z34 (for now, LOL) __________________ 2009 370Z Monterey Blue,Nismo Conversion,RE-11's, K&N Typhoon intakes,Blue Kickplates,Homelink,FI 18" CBE,ERZ HFCs,Hotchkis sways, Swift Spec-R, EVO-R Highwing, UPREV Last edited by tjlazer; 04-23-2010 at 06:33 PM.

04-23-2010, 09:42 PM	#26 (permalink)
Xan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: MA Posts:99999999999999 Posts: 3,301 Drives: 370Z 40th Aniversary Rep Power: 24	I never said the manual is as smooth as driving a Camry, but you also have to realize there is a bit more torque that needs to go through the drivetrain then in your family sedan... And I'm not claiming to be a race car driver, far from it, but my clutch really makes no sound what so ever when I shift gears, nor has my car stalled. And I certainly don't rev the engine higher.... Now there is also the fact, that not all are alike. I have heard the same aftermarket clutch in two different cars, where one would be quite and the other would be loud. Both seem to have no installment issues... that said, a little lubrication goes a long way.... and that could be the case when they put our transmission together as well. Here is another article that might shed some light as to why some people are experiencing more judder then others... There are a large number of problems that can cause clutch judder (originally a British term). The problem generally happens when your car is at a complete stop and you engage the clutch. The clutch jerks, alternately gripping and slipping when you let the pedal out. Judder is not only an irritation, but a safety hazard as well. Parts of the Clutch A clutch is made up of three different parts: (1) The clutch disk is the "sticky" part of the assembly, which transfers the engine's power from the fly wheel to (2) the pressure plate, which connects to the transmission. (3) The release bearing connects to the clutch pedal, and it unites or separates the other two pieces as necessary. Any of these parts can interrupt the chain of power transfer, and cause the clutch to judder. Distortion If the pressure plate gets overheated--perhaps from letting your foot rest on the clutch pedal, constantly causing the contact between the plate and the disk to change--hot spots can form that warp the pressure plate, or the disk can wear unevenly. Once this happens, consistent contact is impossible. Likewise, if the plate gets bent during assembly, or if the flywheel was resurfaced unevenly, it will not apply pressure consistently when it is engaged against the disk. A warped clutch disk can have the same effect; uneven wear patterns will cause slippage. Incorrectly-torqued screws can distort components also. Drivetrain Misalignment Anything that gets the "line of transmission" off-center can cause problems. On the motor side of things, defective motor mounts can allow the motor to angle slightly, or a misaligned flywheel can cause a wobbling effect as it rotates. On the transmission side of the clutch assembly, similar problems could include bad transmission mounts, bent transmission tie bars, bad or misaligned U-joints or a driveshaft installed at too sharp an angle to the transmission. Contamination Sometimes oil or dirt can get on the face of the pressure plate, creating slick spots that grab for a moment before losing traction against the clutch disk. The clutch disk can also get contaminated, as it is generally made from the same materials as your brake pads. Oil and grease can also contaminate rubber mounts. If the rubber softens, it will deform and allow excessive movement and/or misalignment. Defective Parts While it is not as likely as some of the other causes of clutch judder, you could simply have a part that was defective from the start. A small percentage of defects during manufacture is inevitable, and even the best inspection system will not catch them all. Besides the obvious possibility of a distorted pressure plate or clutch disk, the moving parts of the release bearing should also be checked. __________________

04-24-2010, 02:15 PM	#28 (permalink)
fisherg Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 90 Drives: 10 370Z SR M6 Rep Power: 20	I rent 10 cars a year or more in Europe and most are manuals (Fords, VW's, Citroens, Renaults etc..). Most of those clutches are like pushing on a pillow but I would never want that in my "Z". You need to have a clutch that has resistance and you know is there. That said the stock clutch should be relatively free of shudder when engaging on startup. I'm not sure but I think the assembly tolerances required for this car are pretty tight perhaps tighter than can be maintained to ensure consistent jitter free operation from unit to unit. That said nearly all of these cars run fine at delivery and will likely not experience premature wear but its clear that its not perfect. __________________ THE OPEN ROAD IS WAITING.....Solid Red Touring 370ZR w/Navi

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04-23-2010, 03:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
kfscoll Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 86 Drives: 09 370Z BS T/S/N 6MT Rep Power: 15	I suck at driving stick, but my transmission seems fine as long as I "launch" with the tach at 2K RPM or higher. Even below that it's not bad unless I let the clutch out too fast. I'll tell you this...never in a million years would I trade this "piss poor" 6MT for a 7AT. I had a 2001 Corvette with an automatic and it's just so much more engaging and fun to drive a manual.

04-23-2010, 06:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
zilent_jay Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: OKC Posts: 96 Drives: 2009 MB Base Sport Rep Power: 16	Mine has the same judder. My lightweight flywheel/clutch on my 350z did the same thing..... although the stock setup was perfectly smooth no matter what you did. Operator error? Uh, no.....

04-23-2010, 07:18 PM	#25 (permalink)
TheWeatherman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 265 Drives: 2009 370Z 6MTw/Sport Rep Power: 16	Uh oh, here comes the flaming... My brothers 2009 Jeep Wrangler with the 6-speed manual has an easier to use, smoother tranny than the Z. The only thing that is worse with the Jeep is it doesn't have SRM. I must emphasize, I love my Z though. Love love love my car. I probably will be trading in my '09 Infin FX35 when the brand new, redesigned Wrangler comes out. I love his Wrangler... a lot. I feel the Americans are coming back. (His Jeep SRT destroys my Z. It's kind of funny.) Please guys, really, I love my Z, and will buy another when a redesign comes out.

04-05-2014, 10:27 PM	#30 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	In the early morning when cold, my clutch seems to "judder" when I release but after a 1/4 mile or so it seems to loosen up. Think it's a temperature thing. I'll be the first to admit the manual in the Z is a learning experience for sure. It doesn't like to be babied, I can tell you that. It seems to say "harder, faster" every time I shift it.