Traction Controll Completely Off?

ChrisSlicks · 03-11-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

ocfoilist, are you sure it was traction control and not the fuel cutting out?
It has been reported that people are having issues around certain turns with less than a full tank that they lose power because of fuel starvation. Fuel starvation, who else?

He would have noticed fuel cut differently. At the track fuel cut feels like someone slammed on the brakes.

tbonesteak · 03-11-2010, 03:57 PM

interesting....i've done a few donuts on very very slick icy surfaces (private lot in Big Bear for you "public safety conscious" ppl) and while the slip indicator lit, i did not feel any intrusion whatsoever. I did this not to enjoy doing donuts on ice (it's no fun at all), but to test the VDC system and observe how it functions. When i tried doing the same donuts with the vdc on, the system would not let me slip at all. I was just driving slowly in a circle with my gas pedal down to the metal. I'm thinking if the car was to interfere even with the vdc off, my scenario would have definitely triggered the interference. My front wheels were pretty much stationary and rears spinning very fast at different speeds. In case you're wondering if I didn't notice the intrusion due to it being 10% or 15% or some small percentage of a normal interference, I can tell you that it did not interfere. If it did, it failed miserably by hypothetically letting me crash into a tree while my car was spinning for many minutes.

ChrisSlicks · 03-11-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonesteak

interesting....i've done a few donuts on very very slick icy surfaces (private lot in Big Bear for you "public safety conscious" ppl) and while the slip indicator lit, i did not feel any intrusion whatsoever. I did this not to enjoy doing donuts on ice (it's no fun at all), but to test the VDC system and observe how it functions. When i tried doing the same donuts with the vdc on, the system would not let me slip at all. I was just driving slowly in a circle with my gas pedal down to the metal. I'm thinking if the car was to interfere even with the vdc off, my scenario would have definitely triggered the interference. My front wheels were pretty much stationary and rears spinning very fast at different speeds. In case you're wondering if I didn't notice the intrusion due to it being 10% or 15% or some small percentage of a normal interference, I can tell you that it did not interfere. If it did, it failed miserably by hypothetically letting me crash into a tree while my car was spinning for many minutes.

You wouldn't have necessarily known whether it interfered or not under those conditions. You're not going to notice a 15% throttle cut while spinning tires on a zero traction surface. It doesn't try to stop you from spinning 360, if that's what you want to do it will let you.

The system is also completely unaware of the placement of trees around you

Slynky · 03-11-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

You wouldn't have necessarily known whether it interfered or not under those conditions. You're not going to notice a 15% throttle cut while spinning tires on a zero traction surface. It doesn't try to stop you from spinning 360, if that's what you want to do it will let you.

The system is also completely unaware of the placement of trees around you

Yeah, I think you need the back-up camera linked into your VDC before you get that kind of "assistance:

Chriz · 03-11-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonesteak

I did this not to enjoy doing donuts on ice (it's no fun at all)

tbonesteak · 03-11-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

You wouldn't have necessarily known whether it interfered or not under those conditions. You're not going to notice a 15% throttle cut while spinning tires on a zero traction surface. It doesn't try to stop you from spinning 360, if that's what you want to do it will let you.

The system is also completely unaware of the placement of trees around you

Exactly. Zero traction surface. Since the wheels are spinning so freely and throttle is so responsive due to that factor it was very easy for me to detect any kind of a change in the drivetrain, engine, or ecu. I guess the bottom line is that the amount of interference is negligible if that, and that the VDC works and it works great. I personally never turn it off unless i encounter the aforementioned circumstances which is rare.

Vegitto-kun · 03-11-2010, 04:58 PM

would be awesome though

ATD

automatic tree detection

ocfoilist · 03-11-2010, 06:18 PM

It definitely wasn't fuel starvation: I agree with ChrisSlicks - that's a very noticeable feeling when you get fuel cut off. Besides, the entire day I had between 100% and 40% fuel in the tank.

Don't get me wrong, the difference between VCD on and off is huge. My personal feeling is that the VCD is more intrusive than, say the 350's. With it off, I feel free to control the car 99.9% of the time. I only noticed the control kicking in on a very particular situation and I am only taking a guess at the cause.

By process of elimination, it definitely wasn't fuel starvation (pretty full tank the whole day). It wasn't some kind of engine malfunction because it consistently occurred on one spot of the track. It wasn't limp mode as I have an oil cooler and the temp never went above 200 degrees. If I backed off a bit on the speed straightening out of the turn, I had no issues, but every time I pushed a bit more, I would get an immediate power cut right where there's a slight unevenness on the track. But then again, it did not seem to occur anywhere else, so it's either a combination of uneven road surface and speed/lateral acceleration at that one spot, or some other unexplained phenomenon that causes a sudden but brief loss of power.

I suppose time will tell as more people who track their cars give feedback on the feel with VCD off...

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

ocfoilist, are you sure it was traction control and not the fuel cutting out?
It has been reported that people are having issues around certain turns with less than a full tank that they lose power because of fuel starvation. Fuel starvation, who else?

KillerBee370 · 03-11-2010, 07:58 PM

I haven't had it engage when disengaged at the track and I took it from simple slides around corners to a full drift into a spin. And I don't remember the traction control light coming on either but it may have I dunno.

Either way with it on in turns there is a definite power cut but with it off... no such thing.

Vegitto-kun · 03-11-2010, 08:04 PM

il ask the dealership owner next time I see him. he is into heavy tuning/drag/drift races so he should know

B_Bear · 03-12-2010, 07:35 PM

Owner's Manual says that VDC OFF means exactly that, but ABLS and ABS are still active. Maybe folks are feeling ABLS kick in.

pg 5-27: "The VDC system uses an Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) function to improve vehicle traction. The ABLS system works when one of the driving wheels is spinning on a slippery surface. The ABLS system brakes the spinning wheel, which distributes the driving power to the other drive wheel. If the vehicle is operated with the VDC OFF switch pushed and the VDC system turned off, all VDC systems will be turned off. The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off. If the ABLS system is activated, the (slip) indicator (light) will blink..."

ChrisSlicks · 03-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Bear

Owner's Manual says that VDC OFF means exactly that, but ABLS and ABS are still active. Maybe folks are feeling ABLS kick in.

pg 5-27: "The VDC system uses an Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) function to improve vehicle traction. The ABLS system works when one of the driving wheels is spinning on a slippery surface. The ABLS system brakes the spinning wheel, which distributes the driving power to the other drive wheel. If the vehicle is operated with the VDC OFF switch pushed and the VDC system turned off, all VDC systems will be turned off. The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off. If the ABLS system is activated, the (slip) indicator (light) will blink..."

That's probably it. Good find.

theDreamer · 03-13-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Bear

Owner's Manual says that VDC OFF means exactly that, but ABLS and ABS are still active. Maybe folks are feeling ABLS kick in.

pg 5-27: "The VDC system uses an Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) function to improve vehicle traction. The ABLS system works when one of the driving wheels is spinning on a slippery surface. The ABLS system brakes the spinning wheel, which distributes the driving power to the other drive wheel. If the vehicle is operated with the VDC OFF switch pushed and the VDC system turned off, all VDC systems will be turned off. The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off. If the ABLS system is activated, the (slip) indicator (light) will blink..."

Looks like the solution to the problem/question, good find.

gumpy · 03-14-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Bear

Owner's Manual says that VDC OFF means exactly that, but ABLS and ABS are still active. Maybe folks are feeling ABLS kick in.

pg 5-27: "The VDC system uses an Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) function to improve vehicle traction. The ABLS system works when one of the driving wheels is spinning on a slippery surface. The ABLS system brakes the spinning wheel, which distributes the driving power to the other drive wheel. If the vehicle is operated with the VDC OFF switch pushed and the VDC system turned off, all VDC systems will be turned off. The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off. If the ABLS system is activated, the (slip) indicator (light) will blink..."

I thought that this ABLS thing was only for the models without the LSD so that the wheel with traction at some point will get some power... For the life of me i can't find where i read this... so at this point in time I have no proof...

zeecarr · 11-10-2011, 11:21 PM

I have found that VDC is still active, albeit at a reduced level, even when switched off. I have attempted a smoky burnout with it off, lit them up great about halfway through the intersection, and then bog city as nanny Nissan shuts down the power. This is a real thing, regardless of what the literature says.

03-12-2010, 07:35 PM	#41 (permalink)
B_Bear Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 6 Drives: - Rep Power: 15	Owner's Manual says that VDC OFF means exactly that, but ABLS and ABS are still active. Maybe folks are feeling ABLS kick in. pg 5-27: "The VDC system uses an Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) function to improve vehicle traction. The ABLS system works when one of the driving wheels is spinning on a slippery surface. The ABLS system brakes the spinning wheel, which distributes the driving power to the other drive wheel. If the vehicle is operated with the VDC OFF switch pushed and the VDC system turned off, all VDC systems will be turned off. The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off. If the ABLS system is activated, the (slip) indicator (light) will blink..." Mt Tam I am likes this.

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03-11-2010, 03:57 PM	#32 (permalink)
tbonesteak Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Socal Posts: 914 Drives: MY09 MB 6MT Rep Power: 375	interesting....i've done a few donuts on very very slick icy surfaces (private lot in Big Bear for you "public safety conscious" ppl) and while the slip indicator lit, i did not feel any intrusion whatsoever. I did this not to enjoy doing donuts on ice (it's no fun at all), but to test the VDC system and observe how it functions. When i tried doing the same donuts with the vdc on, the system would not let me slip at all. I was just driving slowly in a circle with my gas pedal down to the metal. I'm thinking if the car was to interfere even with the vdc off, my scenario would have definitely triggered the interference. My front wheels were pretty much stationary and rears spinning very fast at different speeds. In case you're wondering if I didn't notice the intrusion due to it being 10% or 15% or some small percentage of a normal interference, I can tell you that it did not interfere. If it did, it failed miserably by hypothetically letting me crash into a tree while my car was spinning for many minutes.

03-11-2010, 04:58 PM	#37 (permalink)
Vegitto-kun A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: USA Posts: 2,011 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 262	would be awesome though ATD automatic tree detection

03-11-2010, 07:58 PM	#39 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	I haven't had it engage when disengaged at the track and I took it from simple slides around corners to a full drift into a spin. And I don't remember the traction control light coming on either but it may have I dunno. Either way with it on in turns there is a definite power cut but with it off... no such thing.

03-11-2010, 08:04 PM	#40 (permalink)
Vegitto-kun A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: USA Posts: 2,011 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 262	il ask the dealership owner next time I see him. he is into heavy tuning/drag/drift races so he should know

11-10-2011, 11:21 PM	#45 (permalink)
zeecarr Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 15 Drives: 2009 370Z 7 Speed Rep Power: 16	I have found that VDC is still active, albeit at a reduced level, even when switched off. I have attempted a smoky burnout with it off, lit them up great about halfway through the intersection, and then bog city as nanny Nissan shuts down the power. This is a real thing, regardless of what the literature says.