Oil Cooler hose exploded

CBRich · 03-04-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TARDCORE

My friend has an 08 C6 and I raced him and he smoked me... bad. he even did it from a dig with another person in his car (and both of them weigh about 200) and I could launch the Z at about 4800 rpms and catch quicker and he still smoked me off the line. I dont think a "stage 1" FI Z could keep up with a C6 Z06 in a straightline. You gotta figure the amount of money you put into it for anything MORE than about 450hp at the wheels is going to add up, make it less of a daily driver, less reliable and more trivial issues. Think about what a an LS3 is putting to the wheels, then add the power to weight, then you have the Z06, weighs less than most, if not all, cars from the factory that put out that power. And vettes are hard to drive for beginners and I know this first hand! When I test drove the grand sport the dumb *** salesman kept telling me "cmon give her some gas feel! the power" I said I am fine and just more or less getting the feel of driving it. SO on the way back to dealer I let him drive it and he broke it loose around a corner in 2nd unintentionally and nearly wrecked it into one of those 1 foot tall curbs. So I am not supprised to Z a outhandle a vette with an inexperienced driver behind the wheel. The Z is a good car, I think its the best car for the money at this moment besides the GTR. I am planning on getting the Z06 or grand sport. The thing about the Z06 is it loses value so quick I might as well wait til 2011 and get a 2010 new or even a 2009 used but with low mile from test drives. All the 2010 have launch control now and it doesnt void the warranty lol. No one buys Z06s anyway as they are not practical and I have seen 2008s with less than 1000 miles on them at dealers when I was looking around.

Awesome story bro.

spearfish25 · 03-07-2010, 10:17 PM

Just to throw this out there. The service manual lists some ballpark oil pressures. Wonder what the pressure is when at really high RPMs...

Idle >14psi
2,000 RPM >43psi

Modshack · 03-07-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Just to throw this out there. The service manual lists some ballpark oil pressures. Wonder what the pressure is when at really high RPMs...

Idle >14psi
2,000 RPM >43psi

I don't think pressure is an issue here. Both Types of hoses, socketed and socketless are rated at 250 PSI or more.

On a cold engine you may see 70-80 PSI, when warmed typical pressures at speed rarely exceed 60 PSI on most cars.

I've posted my theory in the Modshack Ol Cooler DIY...

abakja1 · 03-08-2010, 04:07 AM

Hoses coming off socketless fittings, lines bursting on crimped fittings,..

Starting to wonder if a blown engine is worth it as well as all the worrying just to keep oil temps down. Im changing my oil without installing an oil cooler till more info gets posted. I already have my RacerParts kit and was going to install this morning until I read about the socketless problems for a refresher this morning. A few hours ago I ordered crimped hoses from Mike and will wait for them. And just now I read about crimped hoses coming off, albeit from a vendor, but I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all...

I mean, how do you test a crimped fitting without stressing the fitting itself "before" putting on your car as wouldn't this weaken a strong crimp in the first place?

Modshack · 03-08-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abakja1

I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all...

The variable appears to be the install. Since many people succesfully run any and all of the hose combinations (My socketless set-up has been fine for 3500 miles), It pretty much boils down to install variances. My observations on this:

Quote:

Hose Blow-off analysis

What we know:

1) Both Socketless and Braided hoses have separated in 3 reported instances.
Not sure if Travis's was hose related, so that could be 4

2) Neither of those hose types and attachment styles have regularly reported failure rates.

3) Both hose/end styles are rated well above the expected temps and pressures

What we don't know:

1) install specifics/variables.

One of the comments from the Jack above stuck in my mind: The hose needs significant slack.. Both Cab and Mike report they had slack in their installs. I have no reason to doubt that. One thing not taken into consideration is the Torquing of the motor on it's mounts. Under acceleration and compression braking, the motor could be moving around the axis of the mounts by as much as an inch. Certainly in Mike's case, under track conditions, this could be even more. As the motor rocks on it's mounts, alternate stretch and compression forces are applied to the fitting. I suspect enough of these cycles, with a tad too little slack, and the barbs wore through the inner hose liner. At that point the structural integrity of the hose was gone and it blew off. But I had enough slack you say...Alternate theory #2: The hose, as laid out, passes under the sway bar. Lottsa clearance when up on a lift, not so much when on the ground. Compound that with a lowered car (CAB, not sure of your suspension) and you may have the sway bar working and flexing on the hose close to the fitting. This may potentially cause a similar failure by compromising the inner liner. Be sure the hoses are routed to cross under the swaybar close to the pivot point to minimize this. I'll put some cautions up on page one. I'd also recommend, on new builds, extending the hose lengths by 1" as Mike did after his incident. (My dimensions quoted BTW are cut end to cut end and DO NOT include the fitting.). It is always best to actually make up the hose lengths by fitting to the particular install before final socketless (or other) end assembly. A little too short and you run the risk of hose failure because of the above.

travisjb · 03-08-2010, 12:26 PM

I was not able to confirm whether my issue was due to hose failure or installation failure, so that's going to remain a mystery...

as for abakja, the data we've collected suggests that AT cars have much less problem with overheating, so unless you are experiencing problems, I would hold off... ie are you regularly seeing temps above 280F? 260F? (EDIT: 2nd though, don't answer this here! we already have enough oil overheating threads, lol!)

Nikon FM · 03-08-2010, 09:08 PM

Just to add a little light on my hose failure. I tied the hoses into the frame (using what GTM supplied) at the cooler on the left (passenger) side. I also used cinch straps to secure the hoses further against the front structure.

When removing the hoses I saw that the plastic on the passenger side (drill holes through the pieces for the hose to pass through) was in a different position than when I initially did the install so your theory on the hose movement is correct. The hose movement occurred on the other side of the left side cooler, (the small one beyond the hose clamps at the base) though, so I'm not sure how much tension actually got transmitted to the fittings at the oil cooler.

I was also wondering about the vibration of the mounting bracket and if the hose was fairly snug, the bracket movement might induce a load at the fittings as well.

The idea of having enough slack in the hoses seems like the way to do the install in order to accommodate for engine movement and general vibration.

abakja1 · 03-09-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

I was not able to confirm whether my issue was due to hose failure or installation failure, so that's going to remain a mystery...

as for abakja, the data we've collected suggests that AT cars have much less problem with overheating, so unless you are experiencing problems, I would hold off... ie are you regularly seeing temps above 280F? 260F? (EDIT: 2nd though, don't answer this here! we already have enough oil overheating threads, lol!)

I only see higher temps when I manual or paddle shift compared to normal "D" driving. Of course this would mean revving till I upshift or vice versa...

I think that members will start to leave a little more slack in the lines and lay off zip-tying the hoses together or to the frame as I dont see this totally necessary, but again Im going to keep an eye on the threads and change my oil next weekend and see what comes up after the next 3k miles...

SAM@GTM · 03-09-2010, 09:18 PM

When the op called us saying that one of the hoses we supplied with the oil cooler kit has burst, we assumed responsibly and send him a new hose with a return shipping label so we can get the hose back to inspect it . Upon inspecting the hose, we discovered that the hose has been shorten, we order thees lines pre-cut to an exact length. if you shorten the line and you don't have the experience required to reassemble this type of fittings, the line will com apart end of story . and this exactly what happened in the op's case .

The kit is specific to the 370z we don't offer any other kit for any other make, the few inches of extra length that the hoses comes with is to give flexibility to the installer so they can install the cooler anywhere they want and for the extra slack required with the engine torquing.

Sam

travisjb · 03-09-2010, 10:35 PM

interesting, Sam, thanks... that would have been good info to have at the beginning of this thread, lol

FuszNissan · 03-10-2010, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

When the op called us saying that one of the hoses we supplied with the oil cooler kit has burst, we assumed responsibly and send him a new hose with a return shipping label so we can get the hose back to inspect it . Upon inspecting the hose, we discovered that the hose has been shorten, we order thees lines pre-cut to an exact length. if you shorten the line and you don't have the experience required to reassemble this type of fittings, the line will com apart end of story . and this exactly what happened in the op's case .

The kit is specific to the 370z we don't offer any other kit for any other make, the few inches of extra length that the hoses comes with is to give flexibility to the installer so they can install the cooler anywhere they want and for the extra slack required with the engine torquing.

Sam

That explains a lot. Sounds like you did the right thing as a company too Sam. Not many companies in the aftermarket game will just give you new parts before inspection of quality failure. I would just like to point that out.

TipsZ · 03-10-2010, 06:57 AM

That would also explain why Tardcore has not returned my PM with regards to whether he altered the lines at all.

I am trying to take this in as just a learning experience, I just wish that I did not have to clean up all of this oil and disassemble everything just to learn from it. HA

GTM, how much would it be to order 2 new lines?

MightyBobo · 03-10-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

When the op called us saying that one of the hoses we supplied with the oil cooler kit has burst, we assumed responsibly and send him a new hose with a return shipping label so we can get the hose back to inspect it . Upon inspecting the hose, we discovered that the hose has been shorten, we order thees lines pre-cut to an exact length. if you shorten the line and you don't have the experience required to reassemble this type of fittings, the line will com apart end of story . and this exactly what happened in the op's case .

The kit is specific to the 370z we don't offer any other kit for any other make, the few inches of extra length that the hoses comes with is to give flexibility to the installer so they can install the cooler anywhere they want and for the extra slack required with the engine torquing.

Sam

Sad. You hear cases of owners supposedly wronged by dealers, and look what we have here - a case of deception on the OP's part so he could get a new pair of hoses that he modified. Maybe not him, maybe someone he got to install the part, but none the less...its obvious GTM caught him red handed.

GTM - a lot of respect to you for standing by your product and shipping him some new hoses.

OP - wow. Jigs up, eh?

TipsZ · 03-10-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Sad. You hear cases of owners supposedly wronged by dealers, and look what we have here - a case of deception on the OP's part so he could get a new pair of hoses that he modified. Maybe not him, maybe someone he got to install the part, but none the less...its obvious GTM caught him red handed.

GTM - a lot of respect to you for standing by your product and shipping him some new hoses.

OP - wow. Jigs up, eh?

The even sadder part is that I was dupped into thinking that his other "used" line was unaltered and perfectly fine, and thus purchased the kit from him. This weekend, I will post pics of the un-install, while I await some new lines from GTM. Grrrrr....

MightyBobo · 03-10-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipsZ

The even sadder part is that I was dupped into thinking that his other "used" line was unaltered and perfectly fine, and thus purchased the kit from him. This weekend, I will post pics of the un-install, while I await some new lines from GTM. Grrrrr....

Whoa whoa whoa...you bought some lines from him? Do you know if they were unaltered at all?

Man, that'd be scary...not even worth the gamble. Let me guess, he was all talky leading up to and including the sale, but he's gotten quiet since.

03-08-2010, 04:07 AM	#79 (permalink)
abakja1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hawaii Posts: 351 Drives: STI, MDX, Titan Rep Power: 305	Hoses coming off socketless fittings, lines bursting on crimped fittings,.. Starting to wonder if a blown engine is worth it as well as all the worrying just to keep oil temps down. Im changing my oil without installing an oil cooler till more info gets posted. I already have my RacerParts kit and was going to install this morning until I read about the socketless problems for a refresher this morning. A few hours ago I ordered crimped hoses from Mike and will wait for them. And just now I read about crimped hoses coming off, albeit from a vendor, but I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all... I mean, how do you test a crimped fitting without stressing the fitting itself "before" putting on your car as wouldn't this weaken a strong crimp in the first place? Last edited by abakja1; 03-08-2010 at 04:10 AM.

03-08-2010, 12:26 PM	#81 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	I was not able to confirm whether my issue was due to hose failure or installation failure, so that's going to remain a mystery... as for abakja, the data we've collected suggests that AT cars have much less problem with overheating, so unless you are experiencing problems, I would hold off... ie are you regularly seeing temps above 280F? 260F? (EDIT: 2nd though, don't answer this here! we already have enough oil overheating threads, lol!) __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale Last edited by travisjb; 03-08-2010 at 11:37 PM.

03-08-2010, 09:08 PM	#82 (permalink)
Nikon FM Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Snoqualmie WA Posts: 973 Drives: 03 996TT Porsche Rep Power: 606	Just to add a little light on my hose failure. I tied the hoses into the frame (using what GTM supplied) at the cooler on the left (passenger) side. I also used cinch straps to secure the hoses further against the front structure. When removing the hoses I saw that the plastic on the passenger side (drill holes through the pieces for the hose to pass through) was in a different position than when I initially did the install so your theory on the hose movement is correct. The hose movement occurred on the other side of the left side cooler, (the small one beyond the hose clamps at the base) though, so I'm not sure how much tension actually got transmitted to the fittings at the oil cooler. I was also wondering about the vibration of the mounting bracket and if the hose was fairly snug, the bracket movement might induce a load at the fittings as well. The idea of having enough slack in the hoses seems like the way to do the install in order to accommodate for engine movement and general vibration. __________________ Buddy Revell: "One man's sooner is another man's later"

03-09-2010, 09:18 PM	#84 (permalink)
SAM@GTM NOT AN ACTIVE SPONSOR. DO NOT BUY Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: CALIFORNIA Posts: 913 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 17	When the op called us saying that one of the hoses we supplied with the oil cooler kit has burst, we assumed responsibly and send him a new hose with a return shipping label so we can get the hose back to inspect it . Upon inspecting the hose, we discovered that the hose has been shorten, we order thees lines pre-cut to an exact length. if you shorten the line and you don't have the experience required to reassemble this type of fittings, the line will com apart end of story . and this exactly what happened in the op's case . The kit is specific to the 370z we don't offer any other kit for any other make, the few inches of extra length that the hoses comes with is to give flexibility to the installer so they can install the cooler anywhere they want and for the extra slack required with the engine torquing. Sam Last edited by SAM@GTM; 03-09-2010 at 09:23 PM.

03-09-2010, 10:35 PM	#85 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	interesting, Sam, thanks... that would have been good info to have at the beginning of this thread, lol __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

03-10-2010, 06:57 AM	#87 (permalink)
TipsZ Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithia, FL Age: 51 Posts: 552 Drives: 09 Nissan 370z CS M6 Rep Power: 186	That would also explain why Tardcore has not returned my PM with regards to whether he altered the lines at all. I am trying to take this in as just a learning experience, I just wish that I did not have to clean up all of this oil and disassemble everything just to learn from it. HA GTM, how much would it be to order 2 new lines? __________________ Dynojet 285 HP/245 TQ (pre CBE)// Agency Power CBE // GTM Test Pipes // JWT Pop Chargers // B&M Short Shifter // Eibach Springs // Powder-coated Akebono's // Powder-coated Strut Bar // Black Chromed 19" Rays // // Redline Designs Graphics TipsZ journal

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