NEW Clutch not Engaging...Money Pit
 

I've paired the JWT HD CSC, OEM CMC, and Z1 Street performance Clutch Kit. Any known problems with this combo?

POST INSTALL
1000 miles - fluid looks cloudy and dirty, vibration in clutch pedal present - shop says it's the parts...

2500 miles post install. Eventually loss of clutch pressure occurred on wide-open throttle (pedal would sink to floor-pressure returns seconds later).

3500 miles post install, grinding noise heard outside when releasing pedal after changing gears+pedal vibration. Also grinding noise from outside trans area occurs and becomes increasingly difficult to switch gear and put into gear when driving above 2500rpm. Clutch Master Cylinder reservoir has loss of fluid.

3500 miles- I went and had the Fluid flushed again with a different shop, had new clutch line put in since they said mine was rusty. GTR Brake fluid. Pedal feels great and strong. Good to go for now.... vibrations in pedal still present BUT I can WOT all day no problem.. 500 miles later, more grinding noise heard outside coming from trans area when letting off clutch after gear change. Can't WOT without problems now, can't drive above 2500rpm with issues being intensified. Now can't get into reverse- it's impossible. First is very difficult takes 7-8 tries feels very hard to get it in when it goes. Fluid looks dirty again 700 miles after fluid flush- but no loss of fluid.

Any idea for solution? Has the HD CSC been contaminated? Pressure plate not on right? What's going on...multiple problems here

I've ordered ALL new parts. Clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, OEM CMC, new CSC. I doubt a simple flush again would fix the issue and I don't want to change the CMC just for it to get contaminated and not work, so I'm going to change everything at once. Overkill?
Nearly $5k down the drain so far....before 2nd install here

sounds like pressure issue (CMC/CSC) along with engagement issue. Multiple issues at play? Could it be the piston rod not being adjusted? Idk.

So there is a bit to dissect here....what's the name of the shop? Did you decide or did the shop decide to go with the JWT? I'm not entirely familiar with it, but a lot of folks around here recommend the ZSpeed or similar CSC. Have you thought about moving on from the JWT HD CSC? It looks similar to the OEM CSC where the slave is built into the housing.
Why did you go to a different shop? Was the first go around enough to tarnish your trust in them?
Maybe the pressure plate that comes in the Z1 kit and the JWT CSC aren't playing nice with each other?

small local shop, not a performance shop. Just a regular mechanic
Chose a different shop for the flush/clutch line because trust was shattered.

If the parts aren't compatible, that makes sense. But why the dirty fluid and loss of fluid too? That's two separate problems :( sounds like I could've chose a wrong combo of parts and the shop didn't properly flush/get containments out of the system the first time?

I chose the parts. Now I have my 2nd order of parts for the 2nd installation and have decided to go with ZSpeed CSC Delete, Their clutch kit, and OEM CMC

I will be reinstalling all parts myself (Goodluck me). Parts are ready, I am not. Before I dive in, I'm wondering if I should just swap the CMC+Flush fluid and hope it works, or not bother and just do the entire reinstall again myself?

I dont do service/repair on these cars much, so I am not great at remotely diagnosing problems that might be occurring due to age/wear;

but hasnt there been some known issues with the original master cylinder deteriorating and contaminating the fluid? and needing constant bleeding otherwise before long you have to start pumping the peddle to get pressure? It happened in my Z, required constant bleeding. It wasnt even that old when it happened.

My understanding is that when the internal CSC starts to go, the internal seals begin to degrade and show up in the fluid. Among the dirty fluid, this then trickles down to loss of fluid, inconsistent performance and eventually, no clutch.
Once you decide to tackle the CSC replacement, it's best to replace everything in the hydraulics of the clutch system...from the plumbing to the MC. That way everything is fresh, new and should lead to never having to deal with this again, so long as install and parts compatibility are in check.

Sucks to hear about the first install not going well, I know it can be a tough pill to swallow to invest in parts/time at shop, only to be back where you started. The ZSpeed parts should get you situated nicely.
As far as the install, do your research and get all of the needed tools to tackle the job. I don't have the space to tackle it myself, but there are plenty of videos out there outlining what is needed and the steps to take in order to do this yourself.
Look up "The Carizon" on youtube and search on the channel for clutch install. Great breakdown of tools needed and what to look for when tackling this yourself. Best of luck and take your time.

A couple of things:

1. Confirm with Z Speed that the CMAK CSC delete kit and their clutch kit is compatible with the stock dual mass flywheel. If I recall correctly there was a need to modify the clutch disk if it was the be matched with the stock flywheel. I avoided the issue by installing the Southbend singe mass flywheel (... and now just ignore the gear chatter). Anyway, it would be worth a phone call or chat with Z Speed.

2. If you're going to all the work of changing the clutch system, I'd recommended contacting Ryan at RJM Performance and moving from the OEM CMC to to the Tilton HD CMC. It will make the system bullet-proof.

Unfortunately, the Tilton is not "bulletproof" as I had one fail on me a few years back. I had planned on purchasing a replacement but Joe (ZSpeed pre-retirement) advised me to go back to stock.

OP, back to your issues, I'd recommend replacing the black hose that the CMC uses with one of the clear hoses that Mike Upton sells if you have to mess with the CMC again. The black one breaks down and contaminates the fluid, reducing the life of the CMC.

UPDATE: I bled the fluid and it was so black, and filthy. Fluid was just bled 500 miles ago. This is clear indication of contaminated system. Car goes into reverse again and gears/pedal feel so firm, tight, and strong. Drove 50 miles, vibrations still present above 2500+rpm shifts. Come to a stop after driving 50 miles after clutch bleed, and pedal loses complete pressure....thought i was stranded

managed to pump pressure back just enough to get into 1st, nursed it home

get home, and clutch pedal is dead. Giant black puddle underneath....keep in mind I had replaced csc/cmc 4k miles ago. This tells me that the shop either 1. didnt replace the CMC and left old contaminated one 2. didn't bleed/flush lines properly because now my HD JWT CSC has failed in 4k miles after multiple bleeds....time to drop the trans. Putting in new clutch kit again might as well..im in $6k deep now...

If you use OEM clutch pressure plate and OEM FW with Zspeed CMAK, you have to cut the overcenter spring on the OEM Clutch PRESSURE PLATE.

I've owed you guys an update, here it is
over 2 weeks, managed to drop trans

Trans Bell Housing was missing the top 2 bolts, the breather hose, and bracket that holds the breather hose. The previous shop never put these back....How bad is this? I put 4k miles on this, hard pulls too
Lots of contamination inside the trans- grease and sand looking material spread all over.
95% of the pressure plate bolts were LOOSE. 3/4 of the Flywheel bolts were LOOSE. The shop must've never torqued them/put loctite.

Get this....the center lip of the clutch where the input shaft goes into is grinded to sh*t/chewed up. Metal shavings present everywhere- all over the pressure plate. Something was clearly rubbing against it. This is probably why my clutch pedal would grind on hard shifts when releasing the pedal? That explains the metal shavings and shaved center clutch lip?
Im wondering if the top 2 bell housing bolts missing caused a misalignment which led to all this. I will have pictures up soon. I need help on this one guys. I removed the old clutch kit and pilot bearing. I've paused the job here. Is it safe to install new parts or is there deeper issues that will chew up new parts? Pictures coming soon...

Is the JWT HD CSC too Big and not compatible with the Z1 Clutch KIT? Was the JWT CSC Housing rubbing against the clutch lip, leading to metal shavings and grinding in my clutch pedal?

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Here's the center lip/ring on the clutch that got chewed up....what's it for? pops right off, looks pretty insignificant. And more importantly...what was grinding against it? That's definitely not the source of metal shavings because it's such a tiny piece...so where did all these shavings come from on the pressure plate

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Clutch and flywheel- do they look good? I'm no expert....only 4k miles on them

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I'm trying to figure out where that rub ring on the outer edge of the pressure plate came from.

Looks like the cutch cylinder is the wrong one for the stack height of the flywheel, disk, and pressure plate.

I would send the pics to JWT to ask why that collar would come off the CSC and be stuck to the clutch disk spline hub like that. Perhaps its from over extension. Or perhaps the plate was wobbling around if the hardware was coming out. I think I would have needed to see everything as it was before removing any of it other than the trans to even attempt and diagnose.

The 2 top bolts for the trans missing would not make a difference really. The trans is aligned to the block by a pair of dowel pins, so those bolts being gone isnt going to cause a misalignment.

Clutch kit appears reusable, but I would inspect further. CSC kit appears to need repair/rebuild/replacement.

Yes, I wonder what could have been rubbing on the pressure plate to cause that ting

Maybe the JWT CSC isn't compatible with the Z1 Clutch kit...?

You guys really know your stuff...I reached out to JWT 3 months ago and their exact suspicions were just that... that the CSC was possibly overextending which can lead to unpredictable symptons/damage.

What exactly does this mean? Is the JWT CSC just not compatible with Z1's kit?

I will not be reusing the original clutch kit- and will be moving to a CMAK from zspeed

I will have it looked at by someone- maybe I can keep the Z1 clutch kit for future use or resale at low cost if it's even still good?

Looks like they used a ton of grease on input shaft that has flung out on pressure plate. (the rub ring)

Also, the damge to clutch disk hub is probably from them ramming the transmission in not propertly aligned to engine, or they didnt use the clutch alignment tool properly in first place.

Don't go back there. I did my transmission twice on my back and I never forgot the tow top bolts. Yes, hard to get at, but not impossible. A shop with a hoist it's trivial.

Those two bolts would'nt casue misalingment unless the rest of the mount bolts were loose.

Dont go back there again.

A few questions...
The grease was placed by a friend as we were taking pictures. I noticed he put grease. Is that even recommended for the input shaft? Will wipe it off before reinstalling everything if it isn't

Assuming it's the CSC overextension that caused problems, was this avoidable. Is there some adjustable mechanism that can prevent this, or are these parts simply not compatible with one another?

I think you have incompatible parts. Possible installation errors.

As for input shaft greasing. From FSM:

: Apply lithium-based grease including molybdenum disulphide.

Believe his csc is the wrong one for this pressure plate, flywheel combo.

Just noticed the thread...I went through a lot of issues with JWT CS installed.
Stock CSC went out at 60K km. I installed ACT street clutch and flywheel with JWT CSC.
In a about 15K I started getting hard shifts and no gears at stand still. Shop blamed it on the clutch and I went with Exedy OEM. Same issues after short while, dirty fluid, hard shifts or no gears.
Adjusting pedal travel and bleeding the system helped for couple of weeks and then problem would come back.

What I noticed is that gears would shift better with clutch pedal only halfway in. I adjusted pedal travel (lost cruise control and got "key" light, but that I was aware how to fix)-got better, but would still have "bad days". Or no gears upon startup-not even reverse.

So few weeks ago I bit the bullet and installed Z1 CSC elimination V2 and new Exedy OEM clutch. Old Exedy had no wear and now I have a spare clutch. JWT CSC looks fine, no leaks, no wear marks or gouging. I do not know why it did not work...maybe there was some twist around shaft axis, or some fluid expansion within the cylinder.

My suggestion-ditch CSC set up and go for elimination kit once and for all. I had 3 clutch jobs in 3 years, that is f...$$$!

3 clutch jobs...ouch, that is BRUTAL!

This 2nd one in a matter of a few months is painful, i cannot imagine a 3rd
CSC CMAK Here we go

This is pic of JWT CSC. No leaks, but it looks off center. Not sure if it means anything at all.
Would be nice to get feedback from JWT-that was $350 part which worked worse and provided less mileage than OEM.

UPDATE: I removed the trans and installed the new clutch kit myself but could not get the trans/engine mated together, gave up after 8 hours. My mechanic just put everything back for me, CMAK Delete kit, OEM CMC etc. Fresh fluids, clutch/trans

one thing...car drives great, already $7000 sunk into this. Nightmare is...i felt clutch pedal vibrations randomly already when shifting around 3k-4k rpms...I am worried. It's the same problem from the previous install/failed kit. I contacted JWT when my previous kit and csc failed after only 4k miles and he said this ..."there is an air gap between that sleeve and the disc's hub. So the piston on the CSC was pushed so far forward that it broke the clip off and pushed it onto the disc's hub.* At that point the piston and bearing are no longer contained on the body of the CSC and the hydraulic*seals no longer work.Over travel issues can be caused by problems with the master cylinder*and or the adjustment of the clutch pedal's travel and free play."

Can someone translate this to a noob? Did my previous fresh setup fail because of lack of adjustment to the master cylinder and clutch pedal. Am I now experiencing the same issues and will require adjustment?

There is a sweet spot where you must push up on engine even if transmission looks aligned. Obvioulsy two people are require for this.

As for new clutch vibrations. Give it time to break in. Drive gently for first 1000km (normal shifts etc) Let eveything work in, including CMC and Slave cylinder.

I am not convinced this will solve the issue. The vibration was present on the last kit and only worsened. It seems I need to adjust the cltuch pedal and master cylinder rod in some way?

https://blog.specialtyz.com/?page_id=178

So you put in a CMAK with an OEM Clutch/PP assembly from Zspeed? which clutch did you buy? I think he only sells the Exedy version for OEM.

And a new OEM Clutch Master? OEM Flywheel?

Adjusting pedal will only change engagement height. It's worth a try. Not sure how it's going to remove vibrations. I could be wrong.

Do you have any other mods, like transmission mount etc?

this is the kit I bought, it has the Exedy clutch, comes with an OEM master. No other mods.

I'm only thinking of adjusting pedal/master rod b/c JWT noted my previous kit with same vibration was overextending and stated that such problems can be caused by adjustment of the master cylinder/clutch pedal travel/free play

https://zspeed.com/products/zspeed-p...7%20Q60%20G35S

But that was a whole lot different set up.

Check under the car for broken exhaust hangers (the rubber).

Check loose exhaust points and leaks. ( exhaust did come off for transmission removal)

Check your Transmission mount points etc.

check your drive shaft mount bolts. etc.

This has become a $7k money pit. I am thinking I am done with this platform.

I adjusted the master cylinder rod found in the firewall that connects to the pedal. I lessened the length of it and guess WHAT:excited:

The intensity of the vibrations have dramatically decreased by 80%. They used to be present at 3k+ rpm shifts, now I can rev up to 3200-3300rpm without vibrations.

Problem is...they are still present!!!!!!!!!:mad:

We are onto something though. This has lessened the throw/travel I believe. How can i further decrease the throw and travel even more?

The new OEM pressure plate does not have this ring on the $400 one but on the $1200 one it does. So if you are just going to cut it off, well.....