Best motor builder or switch platforms?

shadow85

Ok thanks for the info, will definitely reach out to Mazworx for some discussion if I decide to stay this platform.

I love the look of my Z still for sure. The supra, I am only 50/50 on. But to make ot fair, I would have to compare a bodykit or lip kitted supra like my Z. And some Supra look nice with the lip kits installed. The TTRS, is in many ways just as sexy as my Z, if not better looking. But the Audi comes with the added class and luxury, which the Z obviously won't match. Anyways, I care more about performance at this stage.

Yep, this is why I included only these other 2 platforms in my choice. I hear nothing but great things about the B58, and TTRS platform. And you say from experience, does that mean you owned a TTRS or still own one? If so please let me know, I would like to PM you a few questions.

Ok to answer this question, how fast I want to go?
I would love to have a street car that can do easy 10s and bonus if I can do 9s on street legal slicks. I hope that is possible for what I have asked? If not then all good.

How deep are my pocket?
Not very deep. But enough for a TTRS and stage 3 mods and tune. Not much more than that.

Or i can spare about 50K for a motor and trans build on the Z. No more really. Don't forget I am in Australia, our markets and rates for things a very different.

But I feel doing bolt ons and tune on a TTRS is going to be much easier than massive motor/trans build on the Z. Hence, why I have been contemplating the switch.

shadow85

Haha, I have been waiting for these comments from some of you guys.

Haha, well atleast some of you guys can get some amusement out of me. Some peeps on here go bat **** krazy at me because I ask stupid questions lol.

Sorry if it offends anyone, just a noob here. Lol

FL 4Motion

Yes, wifey and I have a ‘18 ttrs since new. It’s her track car. Feel free to pm me any questions you may have I’m happy to help.

Ok, from your above comments I’m going to just go ahead and say just get the Audi. It’ll be cheaper, easier, less mods, more trouble free, and the build quality inside and out is great.

1. Bone stock ttrs on the oem boat anchor forged 20’s will do 0-60 in 3.2 - 3.4 sec and run the 1/4 mile in 11.5 - 11.7 @ 118 mph, all this is time slip verified many many times over the last 3+ years. The faster end of the stock spectrum is on the base (or any) 19” wheels. All with the shitty oe pirrilli tires to boot.

2. A stage I ecu/tcu tune 93 octane, (just tune, no hard parts), will run 10.9 - 11.1 @ 124 mph. Again, these #s are with stock 20” wheels still. I’m citing both APR and unitronic times fyi, the unitronic tunes tend to be slightly faster. I have actually seen time slip verified 10.8 1/4 mile runs on a APR 91 octane low boost stage I tune but the guy had lighter wheels and temporally removed the backseat for the run, plus cai and IC, but still that’s fvcking impressive as hell.

3. Stage I ecu/tcu tune e85 will go 10.6 - 10.4 in the 1/4 at full weight. I’ve seen slips around 10.2 when weight savings were added like lightweight wheels and dot drag radials, remove back seat ( that’s a very easy temp mod that saves around 44+ lbs).

4. Stage III with a hybrid turbo (stock sized frame aftermarket turbo so you can keep stock intake and down pipe sizes) on e85 will run mid to high 9 sec passes on drag radials. This is a 700-750 hp setup. Also requires full bolt ons: cai, IC, hfc dp or catless dp, still on stock cbe. Btw, there are gesi hfc that meet epa (USA) emissions standards as well as euro 5/6 standards as well that can support up to 1000 hp so going catless really isn’t necessary.

5. /\ the above setup doesn’t require a built motor or trans, at least not on the short to medium term. Plenty of rs3 and ttrs’s at this level running for years no problems. Now if you’re beating on your car like it owes you $$ every weekend, then, you’ll probably want to upgrade the trans clutch packs at some point and just keep the thought in your head that eventually something expensive might break, but that’s true of ANY car you build. The only time that’s not a worry is if you’re running a stock vehicle.

6. Cost of a stage I ecu/tcu tune is around $800 - $1300. (It will include 91, 93, and even e85 tunes if you want most of the time). All the tuners run sales on the software regularly as well so keep an eye out.

7. IC is around $1k, cai is $800 - $1400, turbo inlet elbow $400, hfc dp $2500. If you upgrade later to stage III, you stay with same tuner they’ll give you a discount on the tune. Stage III hybrid turbo is around $5700 or so iirc. With the hybrid turbo setup, you reuse all your stage I or II hardware to boot.

8. Note, on the Teutonic car platforms, esp the VAG cars, all the tunes I’m talking about are off the shelf bench tunes, no custom dyno tunes needed, not even at stage III. This saves you lots off $$ in no dyno tuning and also explains why all the cars perform within a couple 10ths of each other no matter where in the world they run. They are also incredibly safe bc of this and you don’t need to worry about finding “a good tuner”. Hell, with unitronic, you can skip all the middleman entirely and load and remove and reload tunes from your garage on your laptop. They provide free updates and tech support for the life of your car to boot. APR will also provide free updates for life as long as you own the car but they require loading and reloading the tune at one of their authorized dealer network. Now, they have the biggest dealer network in the world and I know for a fact they’re all over down under. Unitronic is Canadian btw, som good ol boys from laval Quebec. That’s the land of my wife’s people originally.

9. Now I’d be remiss if I didn’t tell you that on oem replacement motor including labor is $27k if you put a piston thru the block. There are all the aftermarket parts available for built motors and dq500 transmissions now tho and like I said, Audi overbuilt the sh1t outta this drivetrain from the factory. But, when tuning, there is always that unknown freak accident factor so you should know costs going in.

Good luck, see you on audizine lol.

shadow85

Hey thank you for the lengthy insight onto the TTRS platform, I don't think I need to PM you after that post lol.

And btw, I am already on the audizine and audiworld forums lol been asking them on their about potential and costs of that platform. I think you told me more in your one post than they did over the past several weeks.

Ok, so it seems they all over on the audi forums agree with you about stage1,II, and III tunes and what they can achieve. However, lots of people from those forums disagree running e85 on a stock motor for the TTRS platform. Where did you hear it is safe? Apparantly, according to the audiforum guys, it is pretty dangerous running e85 on the stock motor, they say many have blown motors because of it.

I tried to ask why, and the only answer I have recieved thus far is because on e85, the high initial torque created using that fuel, usually bends rods on the TTRS platform according to one guy. I am baffeled by this, because I told them that on the Z platform, the Z loves e85 juice and, runs much better and more safe over pump fuel. So I find it hard to understand why it's not the same for the TTRS platform. Anyways, all good, I can worry about that later.

FL 4Motion

I’m glad I could help.

I haven’t been keeping a super close eye on the latest and greatest over on he Audi forums tbh, since it’s a hpde car, our focus is mostly on brakes (done) and suspension and weight savings. As far as power modes, we will be staying stage I or II and on pump gas 93 octane.

That said, iirc, there were some issues a little while back with Iroz’s Custom Code (CC) software tuning blowing motors. CC is more, like the name suggests, personalized custom tuning vs the more traditional bench tunes like APR, unitronic, GIAC, Revo etc. now, I don’t know if the issues were ever worked out or what exactly the problem was since stage III and e85 aren’t our main focus.

I do know that to run e85, I did forget to mention that does require iirc an upgraded lpfp, (low pressure fuel pump) and injectors but that’s not too expensive.

You’ll have to research more, but I’m pretty sure that APR and unitronic at least have safe, reliable e85 tunes, especially at the stage I or II level.

I’m willing to bet a lot of the issues arose at stage III e85. To be fair, that is really getting after it and I personally would budget for built motor and trans upgrades for longevity at that level. Also, your research is correct in that the weak point in the ttrs/rs3 motor seems to be the rods.

Quicksilvers

Since you have a lot of interest you may be better off getting the Audi. After all you have to live with the vehicle not us. Going down the rabbit hole for the second time with your z doesn’t sound beneficial to you in your case. Although the Supra is a very nice vehicle to own I know of a hand full of people that have had issues with their Supra and ended up selling them or trading them in. The older Supra’s have much better overall reliability/dependability.

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FL 4Motion

Ok, so I got a bit curious about this, seems there have been some rod bearing and piston ring issues as well.

Seems like going beyond stage I or II e85 is where this starts to be a problem. Makes sense as to why I wasn’t super up to speed on it since my focus power wise has always been pump gas stage I or maybe II.

But, good news is like I stated earlier, a built motor seems to be the cure here and that’s not too expensive compared to some other cars.

Bottom line, stay stage I on pump gas and run high 10’s consistently with sticky tires and throw in a bit of weight savings to boot.

If you get greedy and want more, just preemptively build the motor, not talking spooler level build here, just your average forged piston/rod combo, upgraded bearings, micro polished crank etc. this setup can run stage III reliably it seems.

I suppose I’m getting old, but I really think the best way to go fast is to just buy the fastest out of the box car you can afford and just do some mild mods to it.

Or, buy an old racing beater and build that. Holden pos with built ls will run as fast as you want/can $$ into it. Then just daily your z or other dd.

/\ this is why we’re only going stage I pump gas, it’s safe and reliable, but still very quick.

shadow85

Ok yes your last post is more inline now with what the audi forum members have been saying about running e85 on standard motor.

I am curious to know how our Zs can handle near double the factory pwr/tq when boosted and e85 and still go strong for many yrs like it is a normal thing to do these days.

But any mention of e85 of the TTRS forum, they are highly against it, aswell as my local Audi tuners are against it to. Really got me wondering how are ton more expensive car does not like it as much as a standard Z motor.

Anyways, I guess all I need is a Stage II tune on the TTRS and I can hit my target of 9-10sec with no weight reduction. Absolutely krazi results for practically a few mods.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...S-build-thread

FL 4Motion

Ahh, I haven’t seen this thread yet, but I do remember Saxon and his original rs3 build from a few year’s ago, I followed that one.

Yeah, w/o a built motor just stay pump gas and stage II max, I mean shi1t, it’ll run what high 9’s.

Off the shelf built motor parts, nothing exotic or one off and you can go stage III full frame BT like Saxon did and run low 9’s.

Big note here, he didn’t upgrade his dq500 trans AT ALL other than dsg catch can and tcu tune and it’s living an apparently happy life at stage III levels with drag radials. So are the stock axles, etc. So, the transaxle and rear diff and axles really are overbuilt as hell but the motor is apparently only somewhat strong from the factory.

With those kinda numbers, I mean, who cares if you’re running corn or not? If the goal is a fast reliable car that is fun, I’d say mission accomplished.

Think about how much $$ and parts and power you’d need to throw at a z to run 9.2 in the 1/4 mile….

cv129

Plus the time it takes. The totality of investment is so crazy that all I can do is

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shadow85

I was looking at some photos of my Z in the past few years. I can't get past how good I think it looks lol

Now, it's got me thinking to keep it just because of the looks. The Audi looks great, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't have that same appeal my Z does to me.

Plus Soho, have said they are releasing the VR30 trans package soon for the 370Z, that would sort out my trans department for big power.

Hmm, imagine that, Soho Built motor, and VR30 trans, that should also get me 9-10s yeah?

FL 4Motion

Nothing wrong with keeping the z, it’s a great car, and quite a looker.

That combo will not get you into the 9’s I’m betting, probably high 10’s. The z just has poor squat/anti squat charactistics in the rear end for drag racing so you’ll be struggling for traction at those power levels which will then offset a lot of the benefits of the extra power.

Or, you can fix the rear end somewhat with mods which will then throw off the road course and spirited mountain road driving characteristics of the car.

You’re asking your z to do something it just isn’t really designed to do very well. $$ fixes everything, I mean with enough $$ and time I can build a 1 ton dually that’ll run 10’s, but it’ll suck as a tow rig and that’s the wrong tool for the job but people do it all the time.

I’ll restate imo, your best path. Forget the ttrs, keep your z and enjoy as is. When you want to go fast in a straight line for a short distance, buy a cheap old Holden drag car.

Or dump a mint into your z, and have a (comparatively for the $$ and power) slow dyno queen.