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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
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-   -   Adding more than max oil level (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/135266-adding-more-than-max-oil-level.html)

DrBacon 12-05-2020 02:28 PM
Adding more than max oil level
 
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BettyZ 12-05-2020 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3974931)
So this is a discussion I've had with a friend and we aren't really sure about, figured I'd ask here since you're all super knowledgeable people. But we're thinking THEORETICALLY, if you had an oil cooler and an oil fed turbo or supercharger, wouldn't it be smart to SLIGHTLY overfill your oil beyond the max line. The theory is that when the car sits the oil in the lines will drain back in the pan and give a higher than it actually is reading, when you go to start the car the oil is sucked in the lines and turbo/supercharger and now you're effectively low on oil. Does this sound insane or actually plausible?
For an oil cooler, it depends on how the lines run and how the cooler is positioned. Some people have mounted the cooler 'upside down', with the fittings facing the street. In that case, when the car is off the oil will travel from the cooler to the pan and actually give you a higher oil level reading than actual.



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FL 4Motion 12-05-2020 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3974931)
So this is a discussion I've had with a friend and we aren't really sure about, figured I'd ask here since you're all super knowledgeable people. But we're thinking THEORETICALLY, if you had an oil cooler and an oil fed turbo or supercharger, wouldn't it be smart to SLIGHTLY overfill your oil beyond the max line. The theory is that when the car sits the oil in the lines will drain back in the pan and give a higher than it actually is reading, when you go to start the car the oil is sucked in the lines and turbo/supercharger and now you're effectively low on oil. Does this sound insane or actually plausible?
Meh, why overthink it? AFAIK, no ones ever lost a motor due to low oil in the above scenario, just check the level regularly and it’ll be fine. Also, too much oil is worse than too little (obviously very low on oil is very bad) but I’d rather be slightly low vs slightly too high personally.

Spooler 12-05-2020 07:25 PM
That doesn't happen. The oil stays in the lines and dose not drain back to the oil pan. I have had a many a turbo car with oil coolers. I do fill up to just below the full line. When the car is shut off you won't see the level grow too much. It will grow some due to the oil draining back down from the heads. You will see the oil level go down in the sump tank on a dry sump car. I have to wait 5 min. after shutting the car off before checking the oil after it warms up to operating temp in my C7 Corvette Grandsport. It has a factory dry sump.

DrBacon 12-06-2020 01:18 AM
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Rusty 12-06-2020 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975037)
Not overthinking it, has actually nothing to do with me but rather a friend's built 350z running ~9-10psi oil pressure at idle @ 1k rpm which by everything we've seen is for sure on the low side. We're just hoping it could be literally anything other than something internal.
Sounds like he's got the wrong size bearings.

jchammond 12-06-2020 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975037)
Not overthinking it, has actually nothing to do with me but rather a friend's built 350z running ~9-10psi oil pressure at idle @ 1k rpm which by everything we've seen is for sure on the low side. We're just hoping it could be literally anything other than something internal.
Back in the “Old-School” days, 10# per 1k rpm’s was acceptable...but idk on that particular engine :ugh2:

Spooler 12-06-2020 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975037)
Not overthinking it, has actually nothing to do with me but rather a friend's built 350z running ~9-10psi oil pressure at idle @ 1k rpm which by everything we've seen is for sure on the low side. We're just hoping it could be literally anything other than something internal.
Has he checked/replaced his galley gaskets on the front cover. This will cause him to loose the engine if he keeps driving it like this.
If the engine was just built, he's got problems with clearances.

ZoomZ 12-06-2020 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975037)
Not overthinking it, has actually nothing to do with me but rather a friend's built 350z running ~9-10psi oil pressure at idle @ 1k rpm which by everything we've seen is for sure on the low side. We're just hoping it could be literally anything other than something internal.
Rule of thumb: OIL QUANTITY will not fix oil TEMP. or Oil Pressure problems!

(ok unless, you run so low that you aint picking the dam oil up-then it's your fault. LOL)

(or if you put too much in and the oil has no where to go, you'll build some sort of pressure.......somewhere. LOL.)

DrBacon 12-06-2020 02:52 PM
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Spooler 12-06-2020 07:31 PM
1000hp build, I doubt it. I know what that takes and a first time engine builder can't put it together properly. I know how in-depth my engine build was and there is no way I could have done it properly.

DrBacon 12-06-2020 08:44 PM
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Spooler 12-06-2020 11:23 PM
Sounds like it is time to fix it now or destroy everything he built. I would suggest he takes it back apart and figure out what is going on.

Rusty 12-07-2020 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3975196)
Sounds like it is time to fix it now or destroy everything he built. I would suggest he takes it back apart and figure out what is going on.
:iagree:

Ghostvette 12-07-2020 10:50 AM
Did he put a new oil pump in? That's one of those details that first time builders miss...

DrBacon 12-07-2020 04:38 PM
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DrBacon 12-07-2020 09:11 PM
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Rusty 12-07-2020 09:39 PM
Had a friend years ago that drag raced a 427 big block Camaro. Mid season he would drop the pan and change out the crank and rod bearings to freshen it up. Did this for years with no issues. The one time he did his mid season. He put in the wrong size bearings. The bearings was 0.010" over. Start the car up and had low oil pressure. Couldn't figure out why. Ran the rest of the season. Said that was the best that motor has every run. End of season tear down and rebuild. That's when he found the over size bearings. :rofl2:
'

DrBacon 12-09-2020 03:42 PM
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Rusty 12-09-2020 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975791)
Ever heard the saying it runs best right before it lets go? :D
Ohhhhhhh yeaaaaa. :rofl2:

BettyZ 12-09-2020 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975363)
So he took it for a nice gentle drive to watch the oil pressure and it was going down to around 23-24psi at 3,000rpm under load, he said when he lifted off the throttle the oil pressure jumped up to 40s. After talking to him for a little while we both agreed it seems far too low. We will pull the engine within the next few weeks and check for damage/issues. Better than blowing up a 20-25k engine. We were just hoping it could've been literally anything other than internal, so much for being optimistic :(
Wish in one hand, sh1t in the other, and see which fills up first.

DrBacon 12-13-2020 03:06 PM
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Rusty 12-13-2020 03:17 PM
Not good. Looks like machining chips. :icon14: Wonder where that long piece came from. :confused:

FL 4Motion 12-13-2020 06:17 PM
Maybe that engine was only built to handle 1000hp once. Or 300ish hp 3 or 4 times...

Kinda like the harbor freight tools of motor builds.

Spooler 12-13-2020 06:58 PM
Ugg, not good. Good luck to him. Hope it is nothing expensive. Oil cooler will need to be replaced and all the oil lines cleaned.

DrBacon 12-13-2020 10:07 PM
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JARblue 12-14-2020 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3975118)
The engine is fairly freshly built yes, there was an oil leak coming from the front timing cover after the build so it was taken apart to fix the leak, everything was rechecked at that point. All the gaskets were good except the bolts (or in this case, screws) were a little loose. The gaskets were replaced just in case and bolts retorqued with loctite. No change in oil pressure.

The engine is spec'd to well over a thousand hp but to be perfectly honest this was his first time building an engine so mistake very well could've been made. Just trying to make sure it could be literally nothing else.
Good luck with the rebuild :(

EPS has better bolts (than OEM or Z1) for the gallery gaskets :twocents:

lol at the 1000hp spec... a first time engine builder has no business trying to get 1000hp out of a VQ37 block :eekdance:

ZoomZ 12-14-2020 10:36 AM
Damn!!

DrBacon 12-14-2020 02:50 PM
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Ghostvette 12-14-2020 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3976502)
Not good. Looks like machining chips. :icon14: Wonder where that long piece came from. :confused:
Looks like part of an oil ring.
:eek::eek:

BettyZ 12-14-2020 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3976498)
If anyone was curious, this is what the oil pan looked like

https://i.imgur.com/yvno3l6.jpg
The engine... sh*t glitter?!?

FL 4Motion 12-15-2020 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3976612)
It was the harbor freight of build experience, not the harbor freight of cost, I've seen the build sheet, nothing in that engine is cheap or oem.
The worst of both worlds then, that sucks man.

GL to you however you decide to proceed. LS swaps are getting easier by the day. :tup:

Regardless, pls keep us posted.

DrBacon 12-18-2020 01:49 AM
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Rusty 12-18-2020 07:28 AM
Where did the big piece come from?

ZoomZ 12-18-2020 12:19 PM
Great detail. Thanks for sharing.

zz

DrBacon 12-23-2020 09:56 AM
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onesekz 12-23-2020 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3978331)
The consensus seems to be the main bearings were incorrectly sized, there's no evidence it was an oiling issue as all other bearings are fine (but they will be replaced just in case as well) and the oil passages are good. The block will be going to a machine shop to be checked over and cleaned, $1,400 depth gauges will be used to correctly size the new bearings this time.

How far off were the bearings?


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Ghostvette 12-23-2020 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3978331)
The consensus seems to be the main bearings were incorrectly sized, there's no evidence it was an oiling issue as all other bearings are fine (but they will be replaced just in case as well) and the oil passages are good. The block will be going to a machine shop to be checked over and cleaned, $1,400 depth gauges will be used to correctly size the new bearings this time.
Was Plastigage used during assembly? That would have given you a heads-up that something wasn't quite right.

Rusty 12-23-2020 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3978331)
The consensus seems to be the main bearings were incorrectly sized, there's no evidence it was an oiling issue as all other bearings are fine (but they will be replaced just in case as well) and the oil passages are good. The block will be going to a machine shop to be checked over and cleaned, $1,400 depth gauges will be used to correctly size the new bearings this time.
Where have I heard this before.? Hmmmmmmm.

rovert 12-24-2020 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3978331)
The consensus seems to be the main bearings were incorrectly sized
No Sh1t Sherlock, how the Fu*# do you miss that.
What, was it just thrown together without checking any of the clearances.
Makes you wonder what else was missed.


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