E-85 on a stock 370z?

JLarson · 06-25-2020, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

So regarding injector sizing. I see lots of different sizes on injectors being referenced in this thread alone. Is there a right or wrong size to increase to from stock? If I were to change to 1000cc or 1500cc injectors would that cause a problem on pump gas (93)? Ultimately I would like to be able to run E85 for track days or performance and 93 for general driving. I have already been tuned on 93 for the setup I currently have, but I am about to install the Berk test pipes this weekend, which I assume will require additional tuning and so I would like to get 2 maps done when I have it retuned. That being said, I know I will need to go get some injectors then and I am trying to learn more about the appropriate sizing for now and possibly future expansion. Down the road I will eventually be installing Twin Turbos (Most likely the AAM kit from what Houston Z aka SZRPro is recommending) and want to make sure that I am not wasting my money now and have to purchase different injectors down the line. My apologies if I am showing my ignorance of the subject but I come from an older era where I worked on Chevy 350s and Holley carbs type setups...this is the first fuel injected car I have ever tried to work on.

Also what advantage does the lex fuel kit from SpecialtyZ give you if its not needed as was earlier suggested...Injectors and a tune on e85 if read correctly.

Just a couple notes, because there isn't a single 'correct' answer to your question here.

-On an NA car, you can run GT-R injectors for E85. That's your cheapest immediate option.
-On a boosted car, with 93 octane, you already need substantially larger injectors. I'm running 750cc @ ~500whp, using about 80% of capacity.
-If I were running E85, I'd need to increase size substantially, probably 1300s or 1700s.
-If that's where you're heading, you'll also need a bigger fuel pump or fuel pumps to provide appropriate flow.

You'll absolutely need a tune once you go to larger injectors. Trust me when I say that your car will not work with incorrect fuel scaling

Edit: +1 on Rusty's comment about the AAM twin turbo kit. Do not go for that one. If you want twins, go Fast Intentions. If you'd consider a large twin scroll turbo, go BP.

Rusty · 06-25-2020, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Rusty,

Your helpful information is really starting to infringe on my ability to troll. Please stop.

Warmest Regards from my insides,
JARkok

Just because you're a hermaphrodite. Doesn't mean you have to swing your junk around.

JeffP-Z · 06-25-2020, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLarson

Just a couple notes, because there isn't a single 'correct' answer to your question here.

-On an NA car, you can run GT-R injectors for E85. That's your cheapest immediate option.
-On a boosted car, with 93 octane, you already need substantially larger injectors. I'm running 750cc @ ~500whp, using about 80% of capacity.
-If I were running E85, I'd need to increase size substantially, probably 1300s or 1700s.
-If that's where you're heading, you'll also need a bigger fuel pump or fuel pumps to provide appropriate flow.

You'll absolutely need a tune once you go to larger injectors. Trust me when I say that your car will not work with incorrect fuel scaling

Edit: +1 on Rusty's comment about the AAM twin turbo kit. Do not go for that one. If you want twins, go Fast Intentions. If you'd consider a large twin scroll turbo, go BP.

Thanks JLarson. That helped me understand better. Coming from a carburetor background the and jetting to specific requirements don't translate well to fuel injection. I also appreciate the feedback on the AAM kit Rusty. This helps in planning out which pumps, rails, injectors to get now so I can upgrade later to TT.

Rusty · 06-25-2020, 03:09 PM

Get your fuel system parts from phunk at CJM. He's the go to guy. Two of the things you should get from him is the fuel pressure gauge and the top hat for the fuel pump.

I used to run around with a 572 CI Dart with a modded 1150 Holley on it. Going from carbs to fuel injection is a learning curve. You are now dealing with injector size, pulse width, dwell time, fuel pressure and a few other things. You are going from a wet flow to a dry flow on CFM too.

Trips · 06-25-2020, 03:21 PM

I suggest if members are not going to be helpful to stay out.

Thank You to those who are trying to be helpful.

Please keep the tech section on topic and not make it personal.

I would appreciate that.

Whjaxn17 · 06-25-2020, 03:38 PM

Guess we're getting soft here, too. Let me try again.

"That was rather unwise.

Of course it didn't switch to an ethanol map, silly. The sensor is aftermarket only."

Specialty Z sales the flexfuel kit. Uprev does not support flexfuel, so you'll have to be tuned on ECUtek. And for the sake of your car, keep corn out of it until you have bigger injectors and it's tuned for it.

JeffP-Z · 06-25-2020, 10:30 PM

I spent some time over at SZR Pro today here in Houston talking with Dane and Brad about build plans and some of the conversations here. The did acknowledge that some people have had some oil return issues on the AAM twin turbo kit and believe they have worked out the issues. Dane is building a fresh motor with the aam stage 2 kit on it and explained some of the known issues being the left side turbo oil line comes default with a straight an fitting and being so close to the fender well, it often gets pinched or kinked. Additionally have the return lines enter the oil pan (wide Greddy I think) vertically instead of from the side helps alleviate pooling in the lines and lateral flow issues. Sound like they may have that kit dialed in well and given the lower price tag (compared to FI) it might still be a good option.

On the build details, here is the road I will begin traveling down:

1700cc injectors $1500
Specialty Z Flex Fuel Kit
AAM Fuel Rail Kit 1329.99
FI Fuel Return System 1045.00
FI or AAM Twin Turbo Kit
Catch can kit
ATI Super Damper
Walbro Dual Pumps
Greddy Profec Boost Controller

P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong.

Rusty · 06-25-2020, 11:14 PM

Don't get any fuel system parts from AAM. Their fuel system kits are having issues. There is a thread or 2 on the problems.

On the oiling issues on the AAM turbo kits. Some have installed an oil scavenging pump on the return line.

JeffP-Z · 06-25-2020, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Don't get any fuel system parts from AAM. Their fuel system kits are having issues. There is a thread or 2 on the problems.

On the oiling issues on the AAM turbo kits. Some have installed an oil scavenging pump on the return line.

Any recommendations on rails/gauge then?

Rusty · 06-26-2020, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

Any recommendations on rails/gauge then?

Phunk at CJM. He has complete fuel systems.

redondoaveb · 06-26-2020, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

Any recommendations on rails/gauge then?

Don't get so butthurt over some of the comments. We all screw with and make fun of each other. The people you're calling trolls are extremely knowledgeable people and can be great help with your build process. Just go with the flow. Everyone gets picked on, it's nothing personal.

With that being said, CJM S1.SE return fuel system is probably the best on the market. It comes with billet fuel rails and you can order a fuel pressure gauge with the kit.

And what kind of power are you looking for, 1700cc injectors may be overkill. 1300cc may be a better choice.

Rusty · 06-26-2020, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redondoaveb

Don't get so butthurt over some of the comments. We all screw with and make fun of each other. The people you're calling trolls are extremely knowledgeable people and can be great help with your build process. Just go with the flow. Everyone gets picked on, it's nothing personal.

With that being said, CJM S1.SE return fuel system is probably the best on the market. It comes with billet fuel rails and you can order a fuel pressure gauge with the kit.

And what kind of power are you looking for, 1700cc injectors may be overkill. 1300cc may be a better choice.

You troll!

JeffP-Z · 06-26-2020, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redondoaveb

Don't get so butthurt over some of the comments. We all screw with and make fun of each other. The people you're calling trolls are extremely knowledgeable people and can be great help with your build process. Just go with the flow. Everyone gets picked on, it's nothing personal.

With that being said, CJM S1.SE return fuel system is probably the best on the market. It comes with billet fuel rails and you can order a fuel pressure gauge with the kit.

And what kind of power are you looking for, 1700cc injectors may be overkill. 1300cc may be a better choice.

Yea. They might be overkill but basically 600 until I decided to rebuild the motor and then 800-900 in the end. I had a buddy doing about 1050whp and I dont know if I will ever go that high. I guess my thought process is if I am spending 1300...why not spend 1500 and never have that as a limiting factor. Is there a downside other than the price for getting the 1700s?

Optimiser · 06-26-2020, 06:21 AM

P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong.[/QUOTE]

JARblue · 06-26-2020, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

The did acknowledge that some people have had some oil return issues on the AAM twin turbo kit and believe they have worked out the issues. Dane is building a fresh motor with the aam stage 2 kit on it and explained some of the known issues being the left side turbo oil line comes default with a straight an fitting and being so close to the fender well, it often gets pinched or kinked. Additionally have the return lines enter the oil pan (wide Greddy I think) vertically instead of from the side helps alleviate pooling in the lines and lateral flow issues. Sound like they may have that kit dialed in well and given the lower price tag (compared to FI) it might still be a good option.

How much money do you think they are making on selling you the AAM kit and install? They think they've figured it out, but they're still in the middle of that build? Is that what I just read? So how do you know they fixed it? Do you really want to be a guinea pig to find out whether they actually fixed it or not?
I recommend you listen to Rusty and tell them to cram that AAM kit in some other chump's vehicle

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong.

You certainly have an interesting definition of "useless". He literally gave you a perfectly understandable response that you completely ignored. So what kind of response do you think you deserve?

Probably not as polite of a response as the PM I just sent you

06-25-2020, 03:09 PM	#34 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,190 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Get your fuel system parts from phunk at CJM. He's the go to guy. Two of the things you should get from him is the fuel pressure gauge and the top hat for the fuel pump. I used to run around with a 572 CI Dart with a modded 1150 Holley on it. Going from carbs to fuel injection is a learning curve. You are now dealing with injector size, pulse width, dwell time, fuel pressure and a few other things. You are going from a wet flow to a dry flow on CFM too. Ghostvette, JLarson and JeffP-Z like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

06-25-2020, 03:21 PM	#35 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,730 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	I suggest if members are not going to be helpful to stay out. Thank You to those who are trying to be helpful. Please keep the tech section on topic and not make it personal. I would appreciate that. JARblue likes this. __________________

06-25-2020, 03:38 PM	#36 (permalink)
Whjaxn17 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 420 Drives: 17 370Z 6MT Rep Power: 3365	Guess we're getting soft here, too. Let me try again. "That was rather unwise. Of course it didn't switch to an ethanol map, silly. The sensor is aftermarket only." Specialty Z sales the flexfuel kit. Uprev does not support flexfuel, so you'll have to be tuned on ECUtek. And for the sake of your car, keep corn out of it until you have bigger injectors and it's tuned for it. Spartan 1771, Rusty, Spooler and 3 others like this. __________________ 377whp/299wtq NA 704whp/519wtq, SOHO stage 2.5 IG: pearlywhite.z Last edited by Whjaxn17; 06-25-2020 at 03:43 PM.

06-25-2020, 10:30 PM	#37 (permalink)
JeffP-Z Base Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 36 Drives: 2010 370z Supercharg Rep Power: 5	I spent some time over at SZR Pro today here in Houston talking with Dane and Brad about build plans and some of the conversations here. The did acknowledge that some people have had some oil return issues on the AAM twin turbo kit and believe they have worked out the issues. Dane is building a fresh motor with the aam stage 2 kit on it and explained some of the known issues being the left side turbo oil line comes default with a straight an fitting and being so close to the fender well, it often gets pinched or kinked. Additionally have the return lines enter the oil pan (wide Greddy I think) vertically instead of from the side helps alleviate pooling in the lines and lateral flow issues. Sound like they may have that kit dialed in well and given the lower price tag (compared to FI) it might still be a good option. On the build details, here is the road I will begin traveling down: 1700cc injectors $1500 Specialty Z Flex Fuel Kit AAM Fuel Rail Kit 1329.99 FI Fuel Return System 1045.00 FI or AAM Twin Turbo Kit Catch can kit ATI Super Damper Walbro Dual Pumps Greddy Profec Boost Controller P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong. __________________ - Jeff Drift Z: 2010 370z, TopGun Rotrex Supercharger, ID 1300cc Injectors, FI Long Tube Headers, GReddy RS-Race Single Exit, Setrab PS & Oil Cooler, BC Racing BR Coilovers, CJM S1.SE Fuel System, Walbro 525 pump with the CJM Billet Fuel Hat, OS Giken Superlock 1.5

06-25-2020, 11:14 PM	#38 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,190 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Don't get any fuel system parts from AAM. Their fuel system kits are having issues. There is a thread or 2 on the problems. On the oiling issues on the AAM turbo kits. Some have installed an oil scavenging pump on the return line. Spartan 1771, JARblue, Chuck33079 and 2 others like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

06-26-2020, 06:21 AM	#44 (permalink)
Optimiser Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 455 Drives: 2012 Nissan 370Z MT Rep Power: 20144	P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong.[/QUOTE] Last edited by Optimiser; 06-26-2020 at 06:30 AM.

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