E-85 on a stock 370z?

JeffP-Z · 06-24-2020, 05:38 AM

So I switched over yesterday to try and test. I ran the car down to as far on empty as I could, which was no longer registering a distance on the miles till empty, filled it half way with E-85 and drive about 50 miles, then filled it back up to full with e85. This car is running fine, except it threw a code (U0164 Lost Communication With HVAC Control Module, CAN Communication Error) which I am not sure is at all related. What didn't happen as I expected, the OBD2 never changed from fuel_type = GAS. I would have expected it to switch to E85, Ethanol, or similar. How does the ECU know I am now on E85 and not 93 to use the different fuel map? I have not had it tuned on E85, obviously, and will do it after my Berk test pipe arrives Friday and is installed. Just curious if this is a workable situation or do I need to get one of the E85 kits from Zspeed, CZP, or Z1?

SonicVQ · 06-24-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

So I switched over yesterday to try and test. I ran the car down to as far on empty as I could, which was no longer registering a distance on the miles till empty, filled it half way with E-85 and drive about 50 miles, then filled it back up to full with e85.

This car is running fine, except it threw a code (U0164 Lost Communication With HVAC Control Module, CAN Communication Error) which I am not sure is at all related.

What didn't happen as I expected, the OBD2 never changed from fuel_type = GAS. I would have expected it to switch to E85, Ethanol, or similar.

How does the ECU know I am now on E85 and not 93 to use the different fuel map? [/b] I have not had it tuned on E85[/b], obviously, and will do it after my Berk test pipe arrives Friday and is installed. Just curious if this is a workable situation or do I need to get one of the E85 kits from Zspeed, CZP, or Z1?

The OBD PID for "fuel type" does not indicate what fuel is in the tank, it indicates what fuel type the ECU is programmed for.

The ECU has no idea what fuel type is in use, since the car isn't designed for it, it doesn't have a ethanol sensor.

With the E85 in the tank and a stock ECU I would think the engine is running lean. The target air/fuel ratio (stoichiometric ratio) are very different: Gas 14.7:1, E85: 9.8:1

husam2012 · 06-24-2020, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

So I switched over yesterday to try and test. I ran the car down to as far on empty as I could, which was no longer registering a distance on the miles till empty, filled it half way with E-85 and drive about 50 miles, then filled it back up to full with e85. This car is running fine, except it threw a code (U0164 Lost Communication With HVAC Control Module, CAN Communication Error) which I am not sure is at all related. What didn't happen as I expected, the OBD2 never changed from fuel_type = GAS. I would have expected it to switch to E85, Ethanol, or similar. How does the ECU know I am now on E85 and not 93 to use the different fuel map? I have not had it tuned on E85, obviously, and will do it after my Berk test pipe arrives Friday and is installed. Just curious if this is a workable situation or do I need to get one of the E85 kits from Zspeed, CZP, or Z1?

Why would you ever attempt to run E85 without a tune?

The car is definitely running very lean at the moment, especially WOT as the car can correct up to 25% during idle/cruising but it will take a while for it to apply that to WOT fueling, and on top of it the injectors aren't big enough to go full throttle.

I would estimate that you'll be doing permanent damage after a few pulls.

Rusty · 06-24-2020, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husam2012

Why would you ever attempt to run E85 without a tune?

The car is definitely running very lean at the moment, especially WOT as the car can correct up to 25% during idle/cruising but it will take a while for it to apply that to WOT fueling, and on top of it the injectors aren't big enough to go full throttle.

I would estimate that you'll be doing permanent damage after a few pulls.

Lean burn. Turning the tops of the pistons into silly putty.

JeffP-Z · 06-24-2020, 04:22 PM

Which is why I asked in advance. But I guess there ya go for stupidity. Never trust internet trolls. I have barely driven and not done any hard pulls yet so I guess thats a saving grace. Time to drain the tank and put some 93 back in it until I can finish the build and get the rest done. I love how no one says, don't do that until xyz is done until after you do it and even ask people in advance. So what all do you need to run E85 well and realize some benefits (without going full twin turbo at this time)? Injectors? E85 sensor kit? what else?

redondoaveb · 06-24-2020, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

Which is why I asked in advance. But I guess there ya go for stupidity. Never trust internet trolls. I have barely driven and not done any hard pulls yet so I guess thats a saving grace. Time to drain the tank and put some 93 back in it until I can finish the build and get the rest done. I love how no one says, don't do that until xyz is done until after you do it and even ask people in advance. So what all do you need to run E85 well and realize some benefits (without going full twin turbo at this time)? Injectors? E85 sensor kit? what else?

You got your answer in posts #2 and 3. You need injectors. Post #2- Bythabay (Eugene) is a master Ecutek tuner. Contact him, he can tune it for you without the need of the ethanol sensor.

JARblue · 06-24-2020, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffP-Z

Which is why I asked in advance. But I guess there ya go for stupidity. Never trust internet trolls. I have barely driven and not done any hard pulls yet so I guess thats a saving grace. Time to drain the tank and put some 93 back in it until I can finish the build and get the rest done. I love how no one says, don't do that until xyz is done until after you do it and even ask people in advance. So what all do you need to run E85 well and realize some benefits (without going full twin turbo at this time)? Injectors? E85 sensor kit? what else?

lol you'll read replies by internet trolls on who knows what site, but you won't read legitimate responses in your own Z forum thread?

JeffP-Z · 06-24-2020, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

lol you'll read replies by internet trolls on who knows what site, but you won't read legitimate responses in your own Z forum thread?

What the hell are you talking about? I asked and all the post up to the were about how I changed this or that and I am running fine. Not a single response given was remotely good until the first guy said on hell no. You need to learn to read JARblue. I screwed up by assuming that no negative responses to a straight up question were a green light and I was woefully wrong. I learned my lesson. But don't talk trash to me like you had some good answer I didn't respond to. You are no better than a troll right now.

06-24-2020, 05:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
JeffP-Z Base Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 36 Drives: 2010 370z Supercharg Rep Power: 5	So I switched over yesterday to try and test. I ran the car down to as far on empty as I could, which was no longer registering a distance on the miles till empty, filled it half way with E-85 and drive about 50 miles, then filled it back up to full with e85. This car is running fine, except it threw a code (U0164 Lost Communication With HVAC Control Module, CAN Communication Error) which I am not sure is at all related. What didn't happen as I expected, the OBD2 never changed from fuel_type = GAS. I would have expected it to switch to E85, Ethanol, or similar. How does the ECU know I am now on E85 and not 93 to use the different fuel map? I have not had it tuned on E85, obviously, and will do it after my Berk test pipe arrives Friday and is installed. Just curious if this is a workable situation or do I need to get one of the E85 kits from Zspeed, CZP, or Z1? __________________ - Jeff Drift Z: 2010 370z, TopGun Rotrex Supercharger, ID 1300cc Injectors, FI Long Tube Headers, GReddy RS-Race Single Exit, Setrab PS & Oil Cooler, BC Racing BR Coilovers, CJM S1.SE Fuel System, Walbro 525 pump with the CJM Billet Fuel Hat, OS Giken Superlock 1.5

06-24-2020, 04:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
JeffP-Z Base Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 36 Drives: 2010 370z Supercharg Rep Power: 5	Which is why I asked in advance. But I guess there ya go for stupidity. Never trust internet trolls. I have barely driven and not done any hard pulls yet so I guess thats a saving grace. Time to drain the tank and put some 93 back in it until I can finish the build and get the rest done. I love how no one says, don't do that until xyz is done until after you do it and even ask people in advance. So what all do you need to run E85 well and realize some benefits (without going full twin turbo at this time)? Injectors? E85 sensor kit? what else? __________________ - Jeff Drift Z: 2010 370z, TopGun Rotrex Supercharger, ID 1300cc Injectors, FI Long Tube Headers, GReddy RS-Race Single Exit, Setrab PS & Oil Cooler, BC Racing BR Coilovers, CJM S1.SE Fuel System, Walbro 525 pump with the CJM Billet Fuel Hat, OS Giken Superlock 1.5

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