VDC off I almost crashed!!

Spooler · 09-03-2018, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow85

Im prolly gonna need a good few laps at the track to learn the new power/tq.

It will take more time than that. If you drive the car regularly it will take at least a year. I am very familiar with boosted cars and I expect it to take me at least 6 months. That driving will not be on the limit either. That would take even longer and require a track.
As was stated before, the car will and can kill you. Go Slow.

BGTV8 · 09-04-2018, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow85

Im prolly gonna need a good few laps at the track to learn the new power/tq.

Can I just observe that I have been racing for 40-odd years with 400+ lbs/ft torque and 500+ hp (NA, not FI so at least it is more predictable) and unless you are at it regularly (even constantly) it is very very easy to get caught out.

I had a 2-season holiday as a consequence of suspension component failure back in 2015 thru to late 2017 and it took me one whole race meeting to get back up to speed at Phillip Island and a minimum of 2 sessions at Winton and Sandown.

A "monster" needs respect and key to that is disciplined use of your foot on the right pedal.

It is ridiculously easy to be caught out, especially on a wet/damp road surface.

You need seat time on a track and Mallala or The Bend are both accessible to you. That's the thin end of the wedge though because consumeable's get used up quickly .. tyres and brake pads.

Using a FI car on the track also requires a lot of attentions to coolant AND oil temps and a disciplined (gee - there is that word again) approach to cool-down

Like I said, come talk to me in October at The Bend if you want .....

6mt370 · 09-04-2018, 04:28 AM

If you fully take your foot off the gas while losing traction, trying to gain traction back, you'll disrupt the dynamics of the entire car. IE like someone mentioned earlier, you shift motion and weight towards the front of the car just like you were pressing the brakes. regulating the throttle and learning how the car reacts is something that needs to be learned. The best thing you can do for yourself and what I recommend people to do with newly boosted cars or higher hp ones is to find an abandoned place and purposely make the car lose traction so you can find out exactly how it reacts and teach yourself how to control it. That way if it ever happens on the street or the track you'll be better prepared at how to handle it.

Now to explain more in depth as to why I said drag radial vs street tires. I wasn't referring that you NEED drag radials, it was a comparison between two tires, one with a small contact patch but is stickier vs one that is super wide but with less "stickiness." These Z people see that they have a 19x10 factory wheel and figure "oh well I can comfortably fit a 305mm tire so lets do it." NOOOOOOOO. Wrong way to go about fixing any sort of traction issues that you may have. Unless you're going after looks, a 305 also has less of a sidewall than slightly smaller tires. I will never buy an expensive tire ever again. My slicks are about $200 a tire and that's as expensive as I will go. I will continue to rave and push Federal tires. I use a 275/35 RS-RR on the rear of my Supra and I can dead hook half way through second at 30+psi of boost with no traction aids on my Haltech. You can find those tires for around $120 through most vendors, if not cheaper. For the price you can't beat them. Sure there are better tires that may last longer or grip better, but for the price tag of almost 2 and a half times more?

You have to also realize that Z's are terrible at handling FI in terms of spinning. Their suspension geometry is so bad at performing straight line acceleration without spinning. You should look into getting a good LSD if you don't have one, maybe adjusting rear camber and toe, getting new suspension pieces that better suit your driving style, etc. Your tuner is also mine as well. Seb has tuned one of my boosted Z's and has another one of my cars there. He is extremely knowledgeable when it comes to whatever questions you may have so maybe you can ask him to dial back some power until you can learn how to better control your car.

shadow85 · 09-04-2018, 11:51 AM

6mt370, is it really that bad though?

Today I went out to take some logs for seb by upping the boost. Even though the boost is only 7.5psi, my car was already trying to spin out of control in 3rd gear and I wasn't even fully WOT. I even tried to ease into it from 40mph and it still was trying to go sideways. Surely this can't be how the car is suppose to behave.

I feel like something is not rite? Camber, alighnment or something?
I can't continue on like this otherwise it's going to eventually go south.

cv129 · 09-04-2018, 12:29 PM

Shadow, just get with BGTV8 before changing more things. He’s a track rat that forgets more about vehicle dynamics than I will ever know.

Just get with him.

jwick · 09-04-2018, 01:53 PM

What temperature is it when you are doing these logs?

Rusty · 09-04-2018, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow85

6mt370, is it really that bad though?

Today I went out to take some logs for seb by upping the boost. Even though the boost is only 7.5psi, my car was already trying to spin out of control in 3rd gear and I wasn't even fully WOT. I even tried to ease into it from 40mph and it still was trying to go sideways. Surely this can't be how the car is suppose to behave.

I feel like something is not rite? Camber, alighnment or something?
I can't continue on like this otherwise it's going to eventually go south.

What tires are on the rear. Air pressure, tread depth, alignment settings?

BGTV8 · 09-04-2018, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow85

6mt370, is it really that bad though?

Today I went out to take some logs for seb by upping the boost. Even though the boost is only 7.5psi, my car was already trying to spin out of control in 3rd gear and I wasn't even fully WOT. I even tried to ease into it from 40mph and it still was trying to go sideways. Surely this can't be how the car is suppose to behave.

I feel like something is not rite? Camber, alighnment or something?
I can't continue on like this otherwise it's going to eventually go south.

This is exactly how 450+ lbs/ft or torque behaves and this is what it will be like all the time.

I once bought a race-spec A9X Torana (genuine factory- race-car built by Harry Firth of Holden Dealer Team) when I was a 25 year-old and had to sell it because with 420hp in 1100kgs it was undriveable on the road.

That's the equivalent of what you have now, a V8SuperCar torque on the road with "road" tyres.

Why do you think that the old heads are counselling you to be wise and judicious.

Hotrodz · 09-04-2018, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

What tires are on the rear. Air pressure, tread depth, alignment settings?

This is what I was thinking to myself he is either running too much air pressure in the rear, not driving enough to get heat into tires first and old or heat cycled tires.

Rusty · 09-04-2018, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

This is what I was thinking to myself he is either running too much air pressure in the rear, not driving enough to get heat into tires first and old or heat cycled tires.

The more info, the better.

And lets get away from the drag radials please. He has a street car, and mentioned about going to a road course, not a drag strip.

redondoaveb · 09-04-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

This is what I was thinking to myself he is either running too much air pressure in the rear, not driving enough to get heat into tires first and old or heat cycled tires.

I agree with you on getting heat in the tires, When my NT05's are cold it's like driving on ice. When they get heated up, they get super sticky. Night and day difference.

Hotrodz · 09-04-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

The more info, the better.

And lets get away from the drag radials please. He has a street car, and mentioned about going to a road course, not a drag strip.

Agreed, there are so many variables. You saw my setup at ZDAYZ. I would not hesitate to daily r888s. There is a reason that all the high end or track oriented cars come with cup 2 tires in 305 or larger being the norm. He just needs to quit listening to the outliers. I'm into my third season of tracking and have yet to turn up the boost. I get as much information as I can from the guys bgtv8, instruction at least every other event and let the instructor drive my car so he can give me feedback and I can observe his lines, braking and exit points as his driving inputs. By letting others help me give me years of experience without having to do stupid and accelerates my learning.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Rusty · 09-04-2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Agreed, there are so many variables. You saw my setup at ZDAYZ. I would not hesitate to daily r888s. There is a reason that all the high end or track oriented cars come with cup 2 tires in 305 or larger being the norm. He just needs to quit listening to the outliers. I'm into my third season of tracking and have yet to turn up the boost. I get as much information as I can from the guys bgtv8, instruction at least every other event and let the instructor drive my car so he can give me feedback and I can observe his lines, braking and exit points as his driving inputs. By letting others help me give me years of experience without having to do stupid and accelerates my learning.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You

Rabbit hole

shadow85 · 09-04-2018, 07:39 PM

I mentioned before I have PSS 275/35R19 on the rear.

When you guys say do I heat it up before the pulls, I do maybe some normal driving for about 15 minutes before the pulls and it was a cold night. Is that enough?

Reason why I think something is wrong with my setup, is because all the other boosted guys that I speak to don't seem to complain about the car doing scary sideways **** very abruptly like mine does

Like when I go fast, it literally feels like somebody is violently pulling my steering wheel to one side. Its not kool... ;(

shadow85 · 09-04-2018, 07:43 PM

Check out this video:
Almost crashed the z.....

I feel like this is what my car is doing under hard acceleration, but too a much higher degree I rekon.

09-04-2018, 04:28 AM	#93 (permalink)
6mt370 Base Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: House Posts: 207 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 10	If you fully take your foot off the gas while losing traction, trying to gain traction back, you'll disrupt the dynamics of the entire car. IE like someone mentioned earlier, you shift motion and weight towards the front of the car just like you were pressing the brakes. regulating the throttle and learning how the car reacts is something that needs to be learned. The best thing you can do for yourself and what I recommend people to do with newly boosted cars or higher hp ones is to find an abandoned place and purposely make the car lose traction so you can find out exactly how it reacts and teach yourself how to control it. That way if it ever happens on the street or the track you'll be better prepared at how to handle it. Now to explain more in depth as to why I said drag radial vs street tires. I wasn't referring that you NEED drag radials, it was a comparison between two tires, one with a small contact patch but is stickier vs one that is super wide but with less "stickiness." These Z people see that they have a 19x10 factory wheel and figure "oh well I can comfortably fit a 305mm tire so lets do it." NOOOOOOOO. Wrong way to go about fixing any sort of traction issues that you may have. Unless you're going after looks, a 305 also has less of a sidewall than slightly smaller tires. I will never buy an expensive tire ever again. My slicks are about $200 a tire and that's as expensive as I will go. I will continue to rave and push Federal tires. I use a 275/35 RS-RR on the rear of my Supra and I can dead hook half way through second at 30+psi of boost with no traction aids on my Haltech. You can find those tires for around $120 through most vendors, if not cheaper. For the price you can't beat them. Sure there are better tires that may last longer or grip better, but for the price tag of almost 2 and a half times more? You have to also realize that Z's are terrible at handling FI in terms of spinning. Their suspension geometry is so bad at performing straight line acceleration without spinning. You should look into getting a good LSD if you don't have one, maybe adjusting rear camber and toe, getting new suspension pieces that better suit your driving style, etc. Your tuner is also mine as well. Seb has tuned one of my boosted Z's and has another one of my cars there. He is extremely knowledgeable when it comes to whatever questions you may have so maybe you can ask him to dial back some power until you can learn how to better control your car. Optimiser likes this.

09-04-2018, 12:29 PM	#95 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,237 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	Shadow, just get with BGTV8 before changing more things. He’s a track rat that forgets more about vehicle dynamics than I will ever know. Just get with him. Chuck33079, Rusty, Hotrodz and 2 others like this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield Last edited by cv129; 09-04-2018 at 12:32 PM.

09-04-2018, 01:53 PM	#96 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	What temperature is it when you are doing these logs? __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

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09-04-2018, 11:51 AM	#94 (permalink)
shadow85 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: South Australia, Austra Posts: 918 Drives: 15' 370Z A/T AMM TT Rep Power: 25	6mt370, is it really that bad though? Today I went out to take some logs for seb by upping the boost. Even though the boost is only 7.5psi, my car was already trying to spin out of control in 3rd gear and I wasn't even fully WOT. I even tried to ease into it from 40mph and it still was trying to go sideways. Surely this can't be how the car is suppose to behave. I feel like something is not rite? Camber, alighnment or something? I can't continue on like this otherwise it's going to eventually go south.

09-04-2018, 07:39 PM	#104 (permalink)
shadow85 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: South Australia, Austra Posts: 918 Drives: 15' 370Z A/T AMM TT Rep Power: 25	I mentioned before I have PSS 275/35R19 on the rear. When you guys say do I heat it up before the pulls, I do maybe some normal driving for about 15 minutes before the pulls and it was a cold night. Is that enough? Reason why I think something is wrong with my setup, is because all the other boosted guys that I speak to don't seem to complain about the car doing scary sideways **** very abruptly like mine does Like when I go fast, it literally feels like somebody is violently pulling my steering wheel to one side. Its not kool... ;(

09-04-2018, 07:43 PM	#105 (permalink)
shadow85 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: South Australia, Austra Posts: 918 Drives: 15' 370Z A/T AMM TT Rep Power: 25	Check out this video: Almost crashed the z..... I feel like this is what my car is doing under hard acceleration, but too a much higher degree I rekon.