Clutch install gone Bad

pokeyl · 05-27-2017, 08:34 PM

Removed my triple disk clutch to go to Z1 JWT https://www.z1motorsports.com/clutch...hr-p-3388.html

Put the trans back in and after bleeding the clutch it will not dis-engage. I can look in the hole were the lines go through the the CSC I have .4 inch movement then the clutch is pushed.

I bough a bore inspection tool so I can look inside and see what is up.

Any ideas? I will put the car back to the stock unit tomorrow.

Z1 seems to think I is still a bleed problem.

I am using the duel mass flywheel with the JWT unit, could that be the problem?

Trans spins free in neutral and will not turn when placed in gear with the clutch depress.

I did not change the pilot bushing,

I am using the Z Speed CSC ZSpeed Performance Replacment HD Clutch CSC Heavy Duty Slave Cylinder Kit

Again, any help, Please

Rusty · 05-30-2017, 10:16 PM

Do you have your clutch plate installed right. If you put it in backwards. The pressure plate will not release.

pokeyl · 06-03-2017, 11:05 PM

It is in correct, I need 7.5mm of travel on the CSC and I am only getting 7mm. I just put in a new master and slave. Still will not work. I have bleed the CMC at the line connection and below at at the slave. I have full travel on the master.

Z speed and Z1 were sure it would work with new hydro parts. NOT

SouthArk370Z · 06-03-2017, 11:24 PM

If the JWT requires more force to operate than the 3-disk, you may have exceeded what the system will handle and are bypassing fluid at the master.

Or the JWT requires more travel.

Just guesses. Hope it's an easy fix.

stansens · 06-04-2017, 08:59 AM

If the pilot bushing is worn it would cause more clutch engagement issues when the engine is running. If the bushing got damaged during removal of the trans or when it was installed it will cause your problem. If the trans was removed without any weight put on that bushing (i.e. it didn't hang at all due to improper removal equipment, or the trans was not forced at all into position during install) then the bushing should be okay. The pilot bushing must always be replaced because its only protection is a small amount of grease that can never be replaced during its life (plus it's really cheap).
Next, if the wrong grease was used or too much, that could cause the trans output shaft to spin when the turning flywheel with clutch depressed. You can check this by turning flywheel with clutch depressed and holding output shaft of trans. I would change out bushing, use correct grease and correct amount and ensure proper install procedure of trans so as to not cause damage of bushing during install. If you can stop it then it could be bushing or other clutch parts not mating properly or working together. If you cannot hold the output shaft from spinning I would suspect incorrect amount of travel for the csc or a worn csc shaft (tube that csc slides on) which should be replaced when doing clutch. Hope that helps a bit.

pokeyl · 06-04-2017, 10:17 AM

OK, the clutch will not release, I test my install by having someone (my Son) depress the clutch after we bleed it before we start the car. It will not release clean. I can put a pry bar at the aft U-joint and make it spin with high force (200-250 pound feet) to make it slip.

I will not slip at all without the clutch depress.

I did not change the pilot bearing, It looks good, but I can.

Last week, with the clutch assy on a press, it releases fine with 7.5mm of press movement, the CSC-CMC only give me 7mm. not enough for a clean release.

Could the duel mass flywheel be damaged?

I am about to spring for the Z1 CSC system.

CMC and CSC were just changed yesterday, CSC is the Z-speed part.

Thanks to all. Keep thinking, I need the help!

Good news is I can remove and install faster than changing a tire!!!

lj909 · 06-04-2017, 12:28 PM

Do you happen to have the rjm clutch pedal? If you do, You may have forgot to set it back to stock setting before the bleed. I did this and wasn't getting full travel in the clutch. Set the pedal back to stock and bled again, got the tiniest little bubble out, then it worked for me.

Just a thought

pokeyl · 06-04-2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj909

Do you happen to have the rjm clutch pedal? If you do, You may have forgot to set it back to stock setting before the bleed. I did this and wasn't getting full travel in the clutch. Set the pedal back to stock and bled again, got the tiniest little bubble out, then it worked for me.

Just a thought

RJM is set to full travel.

I am still running the duel mass flywheel, anyone having problems with that and the z-speed CSC?

fryzia23 · 06-05-2017, 08:44 PM

Z1 might be right. From my experience ZSPEED CSC is a bitch to bleed. I'd deff bleed it couple more times before removing anything again. Also did you bench bleed new master cylinder before installing it?

B&W_Evader · 06-06-2017, 09:29 AM

Look under the boot and see if there's an adjustment for the throw. There might be a threaded rod with a jam nut hiding under there.

Looks like there may be some spacers that go under the plate that holds the arm. Did you put those in?

Joe@ZSpeed · 06-06-2017, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&W_Evader

Look under the boot and see if there's an adjustment for the throw. There might be a threaded rod with a jam nut hiding under there.

Looks like there may be some spacers that go under the plate that holds the arm. Did you put those in?

He has our HD CSC, not the CMAK, The HD CSC has plenty of movement, so long as the RJM pedal adjustment and master adjustment is correct, to release the clutch unless something is wrong with the JWT clutch itself, We have been conversing on the phone with him to figure out what the issue actually is.

Joe@ZSpeed · 06-06-2017, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryzia23

Z1 might be right. From my experience ZSPEED CSC is a bitch to bleed. I'd deff bleed it couple more times before removing anything again. Also did you bench bleed new master cylinder before installing it?

It is actually very very simple to bleed, The only reason it would be hard to bleed is if the master cylinder is weak or adjusted improperly.

B&W_Evader · 06-06-2017, 02:10 PM

Looks like Joe is on top of things.

Fountainhead · 06-06-2017, 02:27 PM

yeah I've always heard it recommended when you change the CSC you should change the MC simultaneously.

pokeyl · 06-13-2017, 07:25 PM

OK today I received a Z1 clutch flywheel and pressure plate, took the day ff work to install it and it still will not release. So at the direction of experts I started the car and shifted in gear and applied the brakes. Motor ran slower but did slip. tried again and did not work and we had a smell. Checked and now when you depress the clutch it sprays fluid. Something is not tight. So I start to pull the trans again and it's stuck. All the bolts are out. Now the clutch will not release and the trans is stuck to the motor. Clutch fluid was black when I drained the slave cylinder. Anyone have a way to pull the trans? I am thinking a motorcycle tie down strap from the trans to the rear of the frame...

If I can't get it apart it will have to go to my local shop. HELP Please!

05-27-2017, 08:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
pokeyl Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: DFS Posts: 896 Drives: ??? Rep Power: 55	Clutch install gone Bad Removed my triple disk clutch to go to Z1 JWT https://www.z1motorsports.com/clutch...hr-p-3388.html Put the trans back in and after bleeding the clutch it will not dis-engage. I can look in the hole were the lines go through the the CSC I have .4 inch movement then the clutch is pushed. I bough a bore inspection tool so I can look inside and see what is up. Any ideas? I will put the car back to the stock unit tomorrow. Z1 seems to think I is still a bleed problem. I am using the duel mass flywheel with the JWT unit, could that be the problem? Trans spins free in neutral and will not turn when placed in gear with the clutch depress. I did not change the pilot bushing, I am using the Z Speed CSC ZSpeed Performance Replacment HD Clutch CSC Heavy Duty Slave Cylinder Kit Again, any help, Please __________________ It's not my fault I'm old, I was born a very long time ago!

05-30-2017, 10:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,177 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Do you have your clutch plate installed right. If you put it in backwards. The pressure plate will not release. Ghostvette and ChaseZ like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

06-03-2017, 11:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
pokeyl Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: DFS Posts: 896 Drives: ??? Rep Power: 55	It is in correct, I need 7.5mm of travel on the CSC and I am only getting 7mm. I just put in a new master and slave. Still will not work. I have bleed the CMC at the line connection and below at at the slave. I have full travel on the master. Z speed and Z1 were sure it would work with new hydro parts. NOT __________________ It's not my fault I'm old, I was born a very long time ago!

06-03-2017, 11:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
SouthArk370Z Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,435 Drives: 2014 Challenger Rep Power: 324198	If the JWT requires more force to operate than the 3-disk, you may have exceeded what the system will handle and are bypassing fluid at the master. Or the JWT requires more travel. Just guesses. Hope it's an easy fix. __________________ Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

06-04-2017, 10:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
pokeyl Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: DFS Posts: 896 Drives: ??? Rep Power: 55	OK, the clutch will not release, I test my install by having someone (my Son) depress the clutch after we bleed it before we start the car. It will not release clean. I can put a pry bar at the aft U-joint and make it spin with high force (200-250 pound feet) to make it slip. I will not slip at all without the clutch depress. I did not change the pilot bearing, It looks good, but I can. Last week, with the clutch assy on a press, it releases fine with 7.5mm of press movement, the CSC-CMC only give me 7mm. not enough for a clean release. Could the duel mass flywheel be damaged? I am about to spring for the Z1 CSC system. CMC and CSC were just changed yesterday, CSC is the Z-speed part. Thanks to all. Keep thinking, I need the help! Good news is I can remove and install faster than changing a tire!!! __________________ It's not my fault I'm old, I was born a very long time ago!

06-04-2017, 08:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
stansens Base Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: toronto, canada Posts: 144 Drives: 2016, 370z Rep Power: 192	If the pilot bushing is worn it would cause more clutch engagement issues when the engine is running. If the bushing got damaged during removal of the trans or when it was installed it will cause your problem. If the trans was removed without any weight put on that bushing (i.e. it didn't hang at all due to improper removal equipment, or the trans was not forced at all into position during install) then the bushing should be okay. The pilot bushing must always be replaced because its only protection is a small amount of grease that can never be replaced during its life (plus it's really cheap). Next, if the wrong grease was used or too much, that could cause the trans output shaft to spin when the turning flywheel with clutch depressed. You can check this by turning flywheel with clutch depressed and holding output shaft of trans. I would change out bushing, use correct grease and correct amount and ensure proper install procedure of trans so as to not cause damage of bushing during install. If you can stop it then it could be bushing or other clutch parts not mating properly or working together. If you cannot hold the output shaft from spinning I would suspect incorrect amount of travel for the csc or a worn csc shaft (tube that csc slides on) which should be replaced when doing clutch. Hope that helps a bit.

06-04-2017, 12:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
lj909 Track Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Riverside Posts: 584 Drives: 40th 370Z Rep Power: 12	Do you happen to have the rjm clutch pedal? If you do, You may have forgot to set it back to stock setting before the bleed. I did this and wasn't getting full travel in the clutch. Set the pedal back to stock and bled again, got the tiniest little bubble out, then it worked for me. Just a thought __________________ PW 07 HR350Z R.I.P. Totaled by 82yr old woman 2010 40th Anniversary 370Z

06-05-2017, 08:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
fryzia23 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: new jersey Posts: 452 Drives: 2011 MB 370Z NISMO Rep Power: 1245	Z1 might be right. From my experience ZSPEED CSC is a bitch to bleed. I'd deff bleed it couple more times before removing anything again. Also did you bench bleed new master cylinder before installing it?

06-06-2017, 02:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
B&W_Evader Track Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: CA Posts: 972 Drives: slower than before Rep Power: 387	Looks like Joe is on top of things. __________________ \|RIP\|6spd-sport\|OSG-LSD\|XP8\|RBF600\|Eibach Sways\|RE-71R\|FI-34Row\|Gen3-CAI\|Yaw P.S.\|

06-06-2017, 02:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	yeah I've always heard it recommended when you change the CSC you should change the MC simultaneously.

06-13-2017, 07:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
pokeyl Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: DFS Posts: 896 Drives: ??? Rep Power: 55	OK today I received a Z1 clutch flywheel and pressure plate, took the day ff work to install it and it still will not release. So at the direction of experts I started the car and shifted in gear and applied the brakes. Motor ran slower but did slip. tried again and did not work and we had a smell. Checked and now when you depress the clutch it sprays fluid. Something is not tight. So I start to pull the trans again and it's stuck. All the bolts are out. Now the clutch will not release and the trans is stuck to the motor. Clutch fluid was black when I drained the slave cylinder. Anyone have a way to pull the trans? I am thinking a motorcycle tie down strap from the trans to the rear of the frame... If I can't get it apart it will have to go to my local shop. HELP Please! __________________ It's not my fault I'm old, I was born a very long time ago!

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