GT-R turbos on the VQ37

Spooler · 07-06-2017, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husam2012

Good news! Finally found the problem. Somehow after removing the Mocal sandwich plate and getting the pre '12 stud, it works perfectly. Approx 100psi of oil pressure at idle.

The turbo return line was opened though haha so I have to clean up that mess tonight.

Crossing my fingers that the turbos and motor are still healthy

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Did you have the thermostatic Mocal plate? If so, that thing is bad.

husam2012 · 07-06-2017, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Did you have the thermostatic Mocal plate? If so, that thing is bad.

Yes that's the one I have. Unfortunately was with the car when I bought it.

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jwick · 07-07-2017, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

Did you have the thermostatic Mocal plate? If so, that thing is bad.

And what are you basing that on?

Spooler · 07-07-2017, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

And what are you basing that on?

It has a thermostat inside that opens up. Not sure why this happened. I would have to take it apart to see. I have one on my car and would like to know myself.

Jayhovah · 07-07-2017, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

It has a thermostat inside that opens up. Not sure why this happened. I would have to take it apart to see. I have one on my car and would like to know myself.

I think the way you worded it - it sounded like you were saying the Mocal plate is bad in general, not that this particular one is bad. =)

I think tons of people are running Mocal plates and are happy with them... unlike the Mishimoto trash.

Jayhovah · 07-07-2017, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husam2012

good news! Finally found the problem. Somehow after removing the mocal sandwich plate and getting the pre '12 stud, it works perfectly. Approx 100psi of oil pressure at idle.

The turbo return line was opened though haha so i have to clean up that mess tonight.

Crossing my fingers that the turbos and motor are still healthy

sent from my iphone using tapatalk

victorious.

husam2012 · 07-09-2017, 07:08 PM

I think I got super lucky on this one but time will only tell.

Just ran the car through 4 oil changes (cheap oil) just Incase there's any objects but looks good so far.
Oil pressure is approx 100psi on a cold start and 45-50 psi at 2000rpm when warm.

I'm going for a final oil change just after the base tune with M1 0w-40 (GT-R spec oil). I'm thinking that it's a little better for an engine on boost.

Currently I'm just waiting for some 2.25 piping so I can finish the inlets and install everything back on. Base tune should be next week with Ecutek.

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SG4247 · 07-09-2017, 07:41 PM

This is good news!

But, I am still confused on the Mocal therm plate. I just put one on my car a few weeks ago. The valve is partially open most of the time, and if it stuck in either position you should still have oil pressure.

More info on the filter and sandwich plate failure would be helpful for those of us who run it.

rovert · 07-09-2017, 10:14 PM

With a Mocal sandwich plate, oil flow to the engine cannot be stopped.
The thermostat only restricts flow to the cooler, it does not restrict flow to the oil filter.
If the valve is jammed open oil will flow directly to the filter, by passing the cooler, then back to the engine. If it is jammed shut it will flow through the oil cooler first, then back to the engine via the oil filter.
In either scenario the oil returns via the oil filter.
The filter would be my first suspect in this situation.
Husam, did you change the filter when you swapped sandwich plates?
Just a bit concerned for you that the fix was a coincidence & it may happen again with catastrophic results.
Here is a link that explains how these sandwich plates work, it probably explains it a bit better than I do.
Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Z2q-ttyOA

husam2012 · 07-09-2017, 10:21 PM

I already watched that video among countless others researching this problem.. The only thing I can see is that I might of used a wrong oil filter stud causing the oil to never flow back to the engine after it is filtered. I did try 3 filters of varying brands before taking the Mocal plate off and it worked instantly afterwards.

Optimiser · 07-10-2017, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husam2012

I already watched that video among countless others researching this problem.. The only thing I can see is that I might of used a wrong oil filter stud causing the oil to never flow back to the engine after it is filtered. I did try 3 filters of varying brands before taking the Mocal plate off and it worked instantly afterwards.

Wouldn't it be better to just delete the Mocal plate for now and go without it?
Also having to trial and error 3 different oil filters and not being sure about a stud seems risky to try and fix this problem.
Perhaps you might just need to take it to and expert shop at this stage so as not to risk anything further. Just a suggestion now you've got this far on this project.

SG4247 · 07-09-2017, 10:04 PM

Husam, reading your posts makes me belive you have removed the mocal plate and the oil pressure problem has been resolved?

I was a hydraulics system design engineer for over a decade.

I am thinking that there are two failure modes in the the mocal oil cooler/ filter system that could explain your low oil pressure concerns.

1. Blocked oil cooler or oil cooler lines. If partially blocked, only a small volume of oil would flow back to the filter inlet side (across the thermo bypass valve), effectively causing a big pressure drop in the system.

2. Blocked or damaged oil filter. Definately this condition would be a problem. Cutting the filter open would reveal any malfunctions or manufacturing problems with the filter. Filters designs have an internal bypass to prevent pressure loss in case of element blockage, so this does not happen very often.

I would check these two items out before reinstating the oil cooler system.

husam2012 · 07-09-2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4247

Husam, reading your posts makes me belive you have removed the mocal plate and the oil pressure problem has been resolved?

I was a hydraulics system design engineer for over a decade.

I am thinking that there are two failure modes in the the mocal oil cooler/ filter system that could explain your low oil pressure concerns.

1. Blocked oil cooler or oil cooler lines. If partially blocked, only a small volume of oil would flow back to the filter inlet side (across the thermo bypass valve), effectively causing a big pressure drop in the system.

2. Blocked or damaged oil filter. Definately this condition would be a problem. Cutting the filter open would reveal any malfunctions or manufacturing problems with the filter. Filters designs have an internal bypass to prevent pressure loss in case of element blockage, so this does not happen very often.

I would check these two items out before reinstating the oil cooler system.

Sorry I haven't had the time nor patience to dig in deeper considering I have probably over 150 hours in this project. I'm going to assume installed error before calling it a failure on the Mocal plate since it's very hard to literally get 0 pressure with it installed.

I did try two filters on the sandwich plate and both had exactly 0 pressure. I even unbolted the sensor and started the engine, but nothing more than a few drops came out until I took off the sandwich plate.

I will let you know as soon as I figure it out.

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Korstix · 07-13-2017, 08:24 AM

Hey man, get your base tune yet?

husam2012 · 07-15-2017, 01:24 PM

The tuner finally came back from vacation and my base tune is tomorrow afternoon. I pretty much finished everything I hope and just waiting for smaller inlet filters as the ones I bought are too tight of a squeeze.

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07-09-2017, 07:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
husam2012 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 551 Drives: 370Z Nismo Rep Power: 9470	I think I got super lucky on this one but time will only tell. Just ran the car through 4 oil changes (cheap oil) just Incase there's any objects but looks good so far. Oil pressure is approx 100psi on a cold start and 45-50 psi at 2000rpm when warm. I'm going for a final oil change just after the base tune with M1 0w-40 (GT-R spec oil). I'm thinking that it's a little better for an engine on boost. Currently I'm just waiting for some 2.25 piping so I can finish the inlets and install everything back on. Base tune should be next week with Ecutek. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Creator of the GTR TT Conversion Kit, NA Record Holder (401WHP) Ecutek Master Tuner (VQ37, VR30, VR38, B58, S55, S58) BTWTuning

07-09-2017, 07:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 805 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	This is good news! But, I am still confused on the Mocal therm plate. I just put one on my car a few weeks ago. The valve is partially open most of the time, and if it stuck in either position you should still have oil pressure. More info on the filter and sandwich plate failure would be helpful for those of us who run it. Last edited by SG4247; 07-09-2017 at 09:38 PM.

07-09-2017, 10:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
rovert Base Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 64 Drives: 08 Skyline 370GT Rep Power: 10	With a Mocal sandwich plate, oil flow to the engine cannot be stopped. The thermostat only restricts flow to the cooler, it does not restrict flow to the oil filter. If the valve is jammed open oil will flow directly to the filter, by passing the cooler, then back to the engine. If it is jammed shut it will flow through the oil cooler first, then back to the engine via the oil filter. In either scenario the oil returns via the oil filter. The filter would be my first suspect in this situation. Husam, did you change the filter when you swapped sandwich plates? Just a bit concerned for you that the fix was a coincidence & it may happen again with catastrophic results. Here is a link that explains how these sandwich plates work, it probably explains it a bit better than I do. Cheers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Z2q-ttyOA __________________ 08 Skyline 370GT SP Coupe 5AT: Diy TT Last edited by rovert; 07-09-2017 at 10:19 PM.

07-09-2017, 10:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
husam2012 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 551 Drives: 370Z Nismo Rep Power: 9470	GT-R turbos on the VQ37 I already watched that video among countless others researching this problem.. The only thing I can see is that I might of used a wrong oil filter stud causing the oil to never flow back to the engine after it is filtered. I did try 3 filters of varying brands before taking the Mocal plate off and it worked instantly afterwards. __________________ Creator of the GTR TT Conversion Kit, NA Record Holder (401WHP) Ecutek Master Tuner (VQ37, VR30, VR38, B58, S55, S58) BTWTuning Last edited by husam2012; 07-09-2017 at 10:23 PM.

07-15-2017, 01:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
husam2012 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 551 Drives: 370Z Nismo Rep Power: 9470	The tuner finally came back from vacation and my base tune is tomorrow afternoon. I pretty much finished everything I hope and just waiting for smaller inlet filters as the ones I bought are too tight of a squeeze. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Creator of the GTR TT Conversion Kit, NA Record Holder (401WHP) Ecutek Master Tuner (VQ37, VR30, VR38, B58, S55, S58) BTWTuning

07-09-2017, 10:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 805 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	Husam, reading your posts makes me belive you have removed the mocal plate and the oil pressure problem has been resolved? I was a hydraulics system design engineer for over a decade. I am thinking that there are two failure modes in the the mocal oil cooler/ filter system that could explain your low oil pressure concerns. 1. Blocked oil cooler or oil cooler lines. If partially blocked, only a small volume of oil would flow back to the filter inlet side (across the thermo bypass valve), effectively causing a big pressure drop in the system. 2. Blocked or damaged oil filter. Definately this condition would be a problem. Cutting the filter open would reveal any malfunctions or manufacturing problems with the filter. Filters designs have an internal bypass to prevent pressure loss in case of element blockage, so this does not happen very often. I would check these two items out before reinstating the oil cooler system.

07-13-2017, 08:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
Korstix Base Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Christiansburg Virginia Posts: 112 Drives: 2017 370z Sport Rep Power: 3364	Hey man, get your base tune yet?

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