Nissan 370Z Forum

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-   -   Help w/ Clutch Issues (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/111972-help-w-clutch-issues.html)

slammedsammy 03-07-2016 12:10 PM
Help w/ Clutch Issues
 
This may be the wrong place on the forum to post this.....regardless, here it is.

Recently I have been having a lot of issues with my clutch. It is operating strangely; mostly at start-up and then for a few miles after that. Lots of play in the top and engaging very low, also feels a little slippery and hard to drive smoothly (I have read most of posts from other members I could find on here regarding similar issues). I don't beat on the clutch but I do drive quite spirited-ly :icon17: . I am not under warranty and the car has 50K miles on it. I would like to fix my issue (possibly CSC or CMC?) while possibly upgrading what I have (clutch/flywheel) since I will have the tranny dropped....but I do not want to break the bank on this (possibly not doable...). I was looking at this: ZSpeed Performance Nissan Infinti OEM & Performance Parts
But was hoping to spend a bit less than $1500 just for the parts..... Any ideas on what I should do here? I don't have a lot of Z knowledge just yet so any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

Chuck33079 03-07-2016 12:11 PM
Help w/ Clutch Issues
 
Is it slipping at all, or is it just weird pedal feel? You might want to bleed it to see if the pedal feel improves before you start buying new parts.

slammedsammy 03-07-2016 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431040)
Is it slipping at all, or is it just weird pedal feel? You might want to bleed it to see if the pedal feel improves before you start buying new parts.
I kinda feel it slipping but I can't tell if it's just me trying to be gentle shifting and trying to drive smoothly because of the strange pressure...Could it be a throwout bearing?

Plan on bleeding the lines this week.

Chuck33079 03-07-2016 12:38 PM
Go test to see if it's slipping. Get in a high gear and floor it. If rpms jump without the car accelerating, the clutch is toast.

ROBERT1183 03-07-2016 01:13 PM
What ever you do, do not buy anything from spec.

Chuck33079 03-07-2016 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT1183 (Post 3431071)
What ever you do, do not buy anything from spec.

Amen, brother. That's the only brand that will kill the HD CSC. Spec is garbage.

Jayhovah 03-07-2016 01:54 PM
If you aren't leaking clutch fluid - I would think its the CMC that is failing on you.. Mine was and I just replaced it... this can be fixed without dropping the trans and the part is relatively cheap.

If it's the CSC, you'll have to drop the trans so it could be time for upgrade.. Should you decide to do so, you will want to replace the CSC (with ZSpeed HD CSC or Z1 CSC Elimination Kit) and CMC (OEM or equivalent) along with the Clutch and/or Flywheel.

On a $1500 parts budget, you could do ZSpeed HD CSC, OEM Master, Z1 Clutch/Flywheel Package.... This is the setup I am running and I am happy with it so far.

I have the OEM CSC sitting around from my 2013. If for whatever reason you wanted it, you could have it for the cost of shipping.

2011 Nismo#91 03-07-2016 02:21 PM
1. As mentioned above, check to see if the clutch is slipping easy test.
2. Check fluid level and color, dark tan/brown is ok, very dark brown or black is bad.

It could be many things, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start planning on replacing that CSC.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 08:50 AM
Up until this morning I had my clutch getting stuck halfway and then popping up when the car had sat for a while. Today I now have to pull the clutch back up with my foot from the halfway point...:/

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431056)
Go test to see if it's slipping. Get in a high gear and floor it. If rpms jump without the car accelerating, the clutch is toast.
Clutch is fine, from what I can tell.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhovah (Post 3431099)
If you aren't leaking clutch fluid - I would think its the CMC that is failing on you.. Mine was and I just replaced it... this can be fixed without dropping the trans and the part is relatively cheap.

If it's the CSC, you'll have to drop the trans so it could be time for upgrade.. Should you decide to do so, you will want to replace the CSC (with ZSpeed HD CSC or Z1 CSC Elimination Kit) and CMC (OEM or equivalent) along with the Clutch and/or Flywheel.

On a $1500 parts budget, you could do ZSpeed HD CSC, OEM Master, Z1 Clutch/Flywheel Package.... This is the setup I am running and I am happy with it so far.

I have the OEM CSC sitting around from my 2013. If for whatever reason you wanted it, you could have it for the cost of shipping.

Doesn't the Z1 clutch/flywheel package come with new hydraulics? You can add them as a package, not totally sure what that includes but....it is $1500..I might take you up on that CSC...I appreciate all the help and advice.

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431576)
Up until this morning I had my clutch getting stuck halfway and then popping up when the car had sat for a while. Today I now have to pull the clutch back up with my foot from the halfway point...:/

Hydraulics are on their way out. Time to replace the master and csc. Might as well give joe@zspeed a call and upgrade the clutch and flywheel while you're in there.

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431582)
Doesn't the Z1 clutch/flywheel package come with new hydraulics? You can add them as a package, not totally sure what that includes but....it is $1500..I might take you up on that CSC...I appreciate all the help and advice.

Do not put another oem csc in there unless you feel like doing this again, possibly soon.

JARblue 03-08-2016 09:29 AM
The master (CMC) is an easier fix ($100 + <1 hour labor) and often the culprit if you're having pressure issues but the clutch is still usable. The slave (CSC) usually just $hits the bed completely and leaves you stranded. So you might consider trying to replace the master first if cost is a factor.

However, beware that the failed master has likely introduced contaminants into the clutch fluid which will probably lead to quicker failure of the CSC. And the CSC will require dropping the transmission which is going to cost significantly more in labor (7 hours or so). As mentioned already, plan to replace the OEM CSC with either ZSpeed or Z1 aftermarket slave options. Start saving if you haven't already - it will be $1K easy. Depending on condition and mileage, you might also consider replacing the clutch while the transmission is out. Better than paying another 7 hours of labor to replace it later if its on its way out.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 10:07 AM
Anyone willing to text me for some faster response help? I want to order parts today. Thanks again guys, you rock. Love this community. 513-646-9853

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 10:12 AM
Why not just call joe@zspeed and Jon at Z1? Those guys will happily discuss their offerings with you to your hearts content.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431638)
Why not just call joe@zspeed and Jon at Z1? Those guys will happily discuss their offerings with you to your hearts content.
Just talked to Zspeed $1525 for parts...got quoted at $450 for labor to put it all in...thinking about just pulling the trigger.

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431649)
Just talked to Zspeed $1525 for parts...got quoted at $450 for labor to put it all in...thinking about just pulling the trigger.

Might as well go ahead with it. That's a good labor price.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431666)
Might as well go ahead with it. That's a good labor price.
Last question I have really....Z1 quoted me at around $1100 for:
1 x Z1 370Z / G37 Clutch & Flywheel Combo () = $1,132.00
Friction Disc: Standard Full Face (+$0.00)
Flywheel Type: Z1 Mid Weight ($0.00)
Upgrades: Z1 CSC Elimination Kit (+$388.00)

and Zspeed quoted me at around $1500 for:
ZSpeed Performance High Performance Clutch and Billet Steel Flywheel Combo includes The ACT Heavy Duty Pressure Plate and ACT Performance Organic Street Disc along with the premium South Bend Lightweight 19lb Full Billet Steel Flywheel. ZSpeed Performance Upgraded Clutch Slave Cylinder (CSC) and OEM Master cylinder.

Is it worth it to shell out the extra cash for the Zspeed parts? What is the real difference between the 2 packages?

(also someone offered to sell me a Spec Clutch/Flywheel [part #SN35SST-2 #SN35AM9-2] for $750 brand new, and lives close to me but I know you guys said it was ****....)

As far as I know there is no aftermarket master cylinder made for the Z....correct?

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 11:23 AM
That spec is overpriced even if it's free.

The prices are pretty close once you add in the HD csc or elimination kit, and a new master.

Jayhovah 03-08-2016 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431582)
Doesn't the Z1 clutch/flywheel package come with new hydraulics? You can add them as a package, not totally sure what that includes but....it is $1500..I might take you up on that CSC...I appreciate all the help and advice.
The Z1 kit only comes with the clutch, flywheel, and stainless clutch line - but you can add the CSC eliminator as an option. You still will need to buy a new CMC.
The stainless clutch line included is not compatible with the Zspeed HD CSC, just FYI.

I went with the HD CSC instead of the Z1 eliminator because A) I scored one off the classifieds here for cheap and B) It stays closer to the original Nissan design. All else being equal (in this case, reliable clutch hydraulics), I usually try to stay as close to the OEM design as possible... call it a rule of thumb.
Also - most aftermarket parts are designed with mostly OEM equipment surrounding it... in this case - if you went with the Z1 Eliminator, you wouldn't be able to fit a BP Single turbo kit as an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431675)
As far as I know there is no aftermarket master cylinder made for the Z....correct?
Nope.. but I had my mechanic install a new CMC for me and he used some kind of OEM equivalent part instead of the Nissan part. He said he did some research and the equivalent part had far lower failure rates compared to the Nissan (understandable considering how many of our CMCs fail)... the one he used was within a few bucks of the Nissan part price. I'll have to find out what he used....

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431709)
That spec is overpriced even if it's free.

The prices are pretty close once you add in the HD csc or elimination kit, and a new master.
It actually is cheaper...by this quote....I don't really understand it. What I guess the biggest difference is the southbend flywheel. Anyone have experience with either (or both) and can recommend one over the other.

http://i63.tinypic.com/xaoy1f.png

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhovah (Post 3431737)
The Z1 kit only comes with the clutch, flywheel, and stainless clutch line - but you can add the CSC eliminator as an option. You still will need to buy a new CMC.
The stainless clutch line included is not compatible with the Zspeed HD CSC, just FYI.

I went with the HD CSC instead of the Z1 eliminator because A) I scored one off the classifieds here for cheap and B) It stays closer to the original Nissan design. All else being equal (in this case, reliable clutch hydraulics), I usually try to stay as close to the OEM design as possible... call it a rule of thumb.
Also - most aftermarket parts are designed with mostly OEM equipment surrounding it... in this case - if you went with the Z1 Eliminator, you wouldn't be able to fit a BP Single turbo kit as an example.



Nope.. but I had my mechanic install a new CMC for me and he used some kind of OEM equivalent part instead of the Nissan part. He said he did some research and the equivalent part had far lower failure rates compared to the Nissan (understandable considering how many of our CMCs fail)... the one he used was within a few bucks of the Nissan part price. I'll have to find out what he used....
Interesting....Thanks for the info...I'm so confused/unsure of what to do at this point... :roflpuke2:

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 12:03 PM
+ rep power to all you helpful people!

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431741)
It actually is cheaper...by this quote....I don't really understand it. What I guess the biggest difference is the southbend flywheel. Anyone have experience with either (or both) and can recommend one over the other.



http://i63.tinypic.com/xaoy1f.png

That still doesn't include a master, so figure another $150 or so. They're going to be pretty much the same as far as the flywheel goes.

slammedsammy 03-08-2016 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3431744)
That still doesn't include a master, so figure another $150 or so. They're going to be pretty much the same as far as the flywheel goes.
Ok, I'm thinking of going with Zspeed package which comes with everything and not the CSC delete kit..

Chuck33079 03-08-2016 12:09 PM
Does it include a bottle of good fluid? If not, snag a bottle of Motul brake fluid.

Jayhovah 03-08-2016 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedsammy (Post 3431741)
It actually is cheaper...by this quote....I don't really understand it. What I guess the biggest difference is the southbend flywheel. Anyone have experience with either (or both) and can recommend one over the other.
No experience with the Southbend kit, but I am running the Z1 full face clutch/flywheel with the ZSpeed HD CSC and have no complaints.

If you purchase anything from Z1, make sure you speak to them directly as they can put in a little discount for being a forum member.

Presto 03-09-2016 12:21 AM
I like dealing with joe@zspeed. Also joe is a lot easier to get in touch with, he replies to emails almost instantly even on a Sunday.
Z1 is a lot bigger and they tend to make mistakes with orders, takes longer to reply etc.

Both options are good, ultimately you can't really go wrong with either one.

EVOHUNTER 03-09-2016 09:19 AM
I Love my JWT combo, with heavy duty CSC, really cheap too.

down side, at idle my car sounds like a diesel lol.

slammedsammy 03-09-2016 11:36 AM
Heres my serious dilemma, I bought my Z used and I'm really not sure if the clutch may have been replaced already or what kind of shape it is in. I don't want to not replace the clutch since I'm already having work done...but I don't want to replace a perfectly good clutch...

Thoughts?

Chuck33079 03-09-2016 11:40 AM
Buy the clutch and flywheel, and make the call when your mechanic gets the tranny on the ground. If you don't need the new clutch, return it and eat the restocking fee.

Jayhovah 03-09-2016 11:48 AM
My recommendation:
I still think only your CMC is failed. The part and labor are both cheap, so I say replace it and flush/bleed through some high quality DOT4 and see where you are.

If you're still having issues then, do what Chuck just said.

Chuck33079 03-09-2016 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhovah (Post 3432631)
My recommendation:
I still think only your CMC is failed. The part and labor are both cheap, so I say replace it and flush/bleed through some high quality DOT4 and see where you are.

If you're still having issues then, do what Chuck just said.

It can't hurt to do it this way. Worst case scenario you're just back to dropping the transmission, so you might as well see if you get lucky.

slammedsammy 03-09-2016 11:51 AM
Thanks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3432626)
Buy the clutch and flywheel, and make the call when your mechanic gets the tranny on the ground. If you don't need the new clutch, return it and eat the restocking fee.
Good call, ordering parts today.

slammedsammy 03-09-2016 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhovah (Post 3432631)
My recommendation:
I still think only your CMC is failed. The part and labor are both cheap, so I say replace it and flush/bleed through some high quality DOT4 and see where you are.

If you're still having issues then, do what Chuck just said.
I like the sound of this....

Jayhovah 04-12-2016 04:07 PM
So what happened?

stansens 04-12-2016 05:22 PM
The bearing itself would make noise whenever you press on clutch pedal even lightly. That said if the clutch engages at a very low point then many times air is in the system. Bad and mainly boiling fluid injects air. Moreover worn seals in the csc or cmc let's air in. As mentioned bleeding is the first thing to do. When in second or third gear try heavy acceleration and if engine speed rises quicker then the speed of the car then clutch is slipping. Usually a worn clutch disc is also accompanied by a very high pedal engagement.


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