Engine Ping on 91 Octane
 

Hey guys, Ive been a long time lurker on this forum ever since I picked up my Z back in January. I decided I should probably go ahead and register as I have just started experiencing my first potential issue with the car. My apologies in advance for the long explanation below but I will try to explain the problem the best I can.

Recently I have noticed a slight engine ping while accelerating. The ping generally occurs under very light load (think typical city driving) between 1500-3000 rpm and tends to get more prevalent as the engine temperature rises. I have always run premium gas in the car (91 is the best you can get here in Phoenix) typically from Chevron or Shell so I'm not sure what to make of it. I took the car into the dealership last week hoping that the noise was just a loose heat shield. After inspecting the car the service manager took it for a drive and also diagnosed the noise as a slight engine ping. Confused, he instructed me to try running an octane booster as a troubleshooting step and report back to him. I have since tried this and noticed that the ping is nearly all but gone. Reverting back to regular 91 causes the ping to return.

My only thought is that this could be caused by either 1) crappy AZ gas or 2) a lean condition caused by bad O2 sensors. Before I take the car back to the dealer I was wondering if anyone else has experienced any sort of the same behavior? If not, any idea on what could be the cause? The car is completely stock.

Btw thanks for having me. :tiphat:

Try a "different gasoline station"! Choose either one(Shell or Chevron). Preferably run it down to almost empty, before refilling at a different station. Also, do not mix brands of gasoline-combustion levels and additives are not all the same.


Welcome to a very good site!

Thanks, its good to be here. :tup:

Concerning a different gas station, unfortunately I have already tried it with no luck. I have tried Chevron, Shell, and even a Quik Trip with no change. I ran each down to about an 1/8 tank before refilling. I have been sticking with shell for the last two tanks to flush everything out. No change :confused:

Dang! It's beyond my knowledge. Hopefully one of the more experienced mod members will chime in!

I never use any cheap gas my motorcycle does ping with cheap gas such as from a wawa or a off name station. I usually go to Sunoco Or Shell

I haven't experienced that at all - but then again, I'm still on my first tank of gas. :( One would suspect a bad O2 sensor would cause all sorts of other problems like hard starting and idle problems. Did they see if the ECU was throwing any codes?

Hopefully some expert will chime in.

No codes as of yet. The car also runs great otherwise.

The sound is really only noticeable with the windows down and no radio on which is why I think it is only a "slight" ping. Is it possible that Nissan finds a small amount of ping acceptable? Unfortunately I'm not very experienced when it comes to newer engines. My last car was a carburated 87' Nissan Sentra.

Ping, or "ticking"?

http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...mal-sound.html

Its definitely not a ticking sound. The sound is metallic and sounds as if a heat shield is rattling under the car under light acceleration. Its most noticeable when accelerating in first and second gear. It might be present in other gears as well although road noise tends to drown it out past second. I had the car inspected at the dealer when I took it in and neither me or the mechanic could find anything loose underneath the car that would make the noise. :confused:

I'm really surprised the ECU lets any detonation occur - at least that's audible. I figured it would just back off the timing.

"Cheap gas" will not be any different from "name brand"gas except for the munufacterer's additives, which are such a small percentage of the fuel as to make no difference at all in combustion. The raw distillate all comes from the same place, refinery. The only thing that will cause a ping id the octane level. A 91 octane from a Sunoco, an Exxon, or a Global is still a 91 octane.

You should hear a loud ping when either running at very low RPM under load try running in 5th gear at a low RPM and giving it some gas. Or run it up a hill, again in 5th gear at low rpm, you should also hear a loud ping.

If the engine really is pinging, take it to another dealer for a check. Wow, it sucks not being able to get 93 octane where you live! Yet this engine should run normally on 91 octane, says so in the manual.

Sounds like a heat shield noise...if it only happens at a certain rpm, that is where the resonance occurs that makes the shield rattle. A ping is very noticeable, almost sounds like a small hammer banging against a large piece of metal. If it is a rather thin metallic noise, it is almost certainly just a rattle of a metal heat shield.

Find a gas station that doesn't put ethanol in their gas. See if that makes a difference.

I agree with Steve, on the probable cause, the octane your putting is within spec of nissan's requirements, I would suspect a bad o2 sensor is keeping it to lean, the Dealer has to dig into it and find your problem, his suggestion of Oh well just add some additive, and will see what happens is BullShit, a new car shouldn't be pinging, that's just Embarrassing, If he won't do nothing about it find another dealer like it's been suggested. :tiphat:

I too have noticed this ping at low rpms, in 1st gear mostly, even more so in reverse, I always run 91 octane
I can get 94 octane here in Canada at 1 gas station(Sunoco), maybe ill try that to see if it makes a difference

I agree, and I think the manual says something about NOT putting in additives?

I think you hit it right on the nose when you mentioned the O2 sensors. Are they ECU-controlled? Then have her hooked up to a Diagnostics Analysis computer; that should tell the tale of the ping. If the stealership can't diagnose it, they're the most deficient and inadequate stealership I've ever heard of! Good luck, dude. BTW, it's a crying shame that you don't have higher octane gas available in your area. Thank God, down here we have 93-octane Texaco with Techron, my only choice, 'xept in an emergency.

It should...Could be a malfunctioning Knock Sensor..

Thanks for all the input guys. I made an appointment for this Saturday to have the car checked out again. I figure I'll give the dealership that I bought the car from one more chance. I will insist on them running some diagnostics and see if they cant figure it out. If I'm not satisfied I'll go elsewhere. As for the noise, I have not ruled out the heat shield yet but I find it unlikely given that running an octane booster greatly diminished the metallic noise. This could always be the placebo effect but I pretty certain this is the case.

I'll try to keep you guys updated if I find out any new information. In the mean time feel free to chime in if you can think of any more causes or are experiencing the same issue. I would like to hear some input from some of our AZ members to see if they are experiencing the same thing. I know AZ is prone to running different blends of gasoline through out the year to cut down on emissions. I am curious if this could be the cause.

In reference to different blends of gas - that happens everywhere, AFIAK.

Around here, we have a "winter" blend, that runs poorly in my motorcycle, and a blend that is used the rest of the year. I try and fill my tank around this time of year with stations that aren't as busy as others, in the hopes they still have the good stuff. Then in spring, I hit the stations that are busy in the hopes that they've cycled out the bad stuff.

dang it i was gonna throw out bad knock circuit but mod beat me to it. doesn't have to be the sensor could be the harness too. If adding an an octane booster (recommend NOS in the box or the lucas one in the orange bottle) mostly gets rid of it you can either just drive forever to get somewhere with 93 or take it in and have the dealer use the consult3 on it. He confirmed the problem so it's already warranty and your golden.

Edit: until you start getting gasoline blended for -30deg temps don't complain about yearly blends.

Well, this Saturdays appointment was a bust. Drove the car down to the dealership that I bought the car from just to be told by the service manager that they are unable to run diagnostics on the weekend due to the tech support line only being available mon-fri. This would have been nice to have been told when I set up the diagnostics appointment with him in the first place. I walked out pissed and drove directly over to another nissan dealership here in phoenix. The service manager there was very helpful (considering I walked in without an appointment) and had one of his GTR techs go over the car. Unfortunately they were not able to do a full diagnostics check for the same reason as dealer #1 however they did plug into the computer and run some checks. All sensors are functioning normally and the car apparently is not running lean. I set up another appointment for this Friday to have them do a more thorough run-down. I will let you guys know how it goes.

2500-3000 rpm = heavy vibration from this engine. See if thats specifically when you are hearing it. I dont know if its a rattle thought because you say you are hearing single pings...no mods right?

This is going to be one of those things you need to datalog to see whats happening. If you dont see anything weird in the logs, then look for a mechanical issue. Does it do it when you rev at idle?

No mods, the car is completely stock.

The rattle occurs between 1500 and 3000 rpm. No rattle when reving in neutral or when accelerating hard. It only seems to happen under light throttle. I also payed attention to oil temperatures today as that's really the only thing we have to go by. It appears that it doesn't start to happen until the oil temperature reaches about 210-215F. :confused:

A rattle and an engine Ping are two different things. Which is it? Or can't you tell?

Its a real thin metallic sound. The best way I could describe it is the sound that is made when you bog an engine just before stall. Is there a chance that this might be something other than pinging? So far nothing can be found that could be rattling underneath the car. My only thought would then be something internal. I know the transmission in these cars is generally pretty noisy but the sound usually doesn't appear until after the clutch is fully engaged.

Both :icon18: valid points :iagree:

Have to put an exclamation point on this...a ping is a very distinct sound, and to these ears anyway most vehicles I've heard pinging sound almost identical, from 4-cylinder to 8-cylinder cars. So, again, you do know a ping when you hear one, right?

And I have to ask, did the techs at the new dealer hear the noise?

I have to admit, I have never heard a pinging engine in person so i am a bit lacking in knowledge here. After driving the car today the noise definitely sounds more like a rattle. I listened to some youtube clips of pinging engines and it appears like pinging sounds more like someone shaking a spray can. The noise my car is making sounds more like a loose/vibrating heat shield. I crawled under the car again today and thumped around on a bunch of things. I could not find anything that could be rattling. Guess I'm at a bit of a loss here.

When I took the car into the dealership the tech could not hear the noise. I am assuming because the engine was cold by the time he took it for a drive (car sat for about an hour before he got to it). I ended up taking the service manager for a lengthy drive to get the car warm. He heard the noise and diagnosed it as an engine ping although I am not sure I trust his technical backround all that much.

There could be some small delay before the knock sensor kicks in. It has to detect a ping before pulling back the timing.

I know on my car if I don't get into the throttle enough starting off from a light sounds like a diesel engine but it seems normal from the people I've talked to and I think its a function of the VVEL system. Sounds more like the valve train than pinging.....

I wonder if the engine is actually tuned for 93 octane and it is having to retard the timing slightly for 91 octane? Would explain the noise, but I would expect to be hearing more complaints from the West Coast.

I will get pinging at moderate load if the engine oil is running high >210.
91 octane is the highest available here in CO without going to race gas.

I jut got my 2013 370z about 3 months ago. I've had the same pinging problem since day one. It does it after the car gets really hot and mostly on first gear. If I ease up on the gas pedal just a tiny bit it will stop doing it then I can accelerate without the ping. Once I'm in second gear it stops. The highest octane available in Las Vegas is 91. I've been using NOS octane booster for a while but It doesn't make any difference. When the car gets hot, the engine pings. I'm going to stop using NOS because I've read mixed reports about it. I'm going to take the car to the dealer in the next week or so. I will post my findings as soon as I get the car back from the shop. Other than that, THIS CAR ROCKS! :driving:

There was a 93 station off Charleston and I-15. It was the only one I found. I would check to see if they still sell it there. It's the same side as Carls Jr.

Thanks for the info SS. I've been looking everywhere for better gas. I wish I had read this a few hours ago. I just came from The Strip and Charleston. Next time I'm down there I will check it out. :tup:

There's a service bulletin for the 2013 Z. I was getting a code from Torque Pro so when I took my Z in to the dealer for an oil change the service guy checked it out and reprogrammed the ECU. I don't know if that would have anything to do with a ping problem but the reprogram is free.

FireHawk and JamesB
Do the 76 gas stations/Rebel oil still sell 100 octane unleaded @ the pump @ certain stations?
Rebel Oil -search for "Racing" fuel.
I miss being able to drive to a gas station and put the good stuff in!

back when i lived in WI i knew several stations that sold turbo blue 110

not entirely sure. Haven't been home in almost a year. Most don't though. There tend to be more options the closer you get to the raceway.