No Full Synthetic Oil in the Z?

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

We could go on for weeks about this. The only reference to factory fill in the manual is on page 9-5 and says this..

"Your engine was filled with a high quality engine
oil when it was built."

That's not real definitive....

So, again, Nissan highly recommends (can't require, by law) the oil but does not use it themselves for the factory fill, which will be used during the most crucial period (break-in) and which would help limit the number of warranty issues with the engine? Really? Man, that is one dumb company.

The TSB, by the way, states that Nissan Ester oil is required when reflashing the ECU under the TSB procedure for the 3.7 VHR. Isn't the ECU reflash at this point done at the factory?

EDIT: Nissan Technical Service Bulletin ITB08-028a
EDIT: The Owner's Manual was written long before ITB08-028a

Trips · 11-14-2009, 12:34 PM

Modshack · 11-14-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

So, again, Nissan highly recommends (can't require, by law) the oil but does not use it themselves for the factory fill, which will be used during the most crucial period (break-in) and which would help limit the number of warranty issues with the engine? Really? Man, that is one dumb company.

Like I said, if you have proof, post it up! I'm sure others would be interested..

Personally I don't care. I ditched my factory fill at 1600 miles when I installed my oil cooler. Pennsoil Dino since then with no differences noted at all. I'll be moving to full synthetic at 5K...

Trips · 11-14-2009, 01:23 PM

is the dueling over?

Modshack · 11-14-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple's

is the dueling over?

...I doubt it...You know all about the "assume" thing....

ZKindaGuy · 11-14-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

It's ester, not Esther.

Modshack, I never said they don't run the engine at the factory. I said that only Porsche runs the engine on a dyno before it is even installed in the chassis. What manufacturer would build an engine and not test it? I also said that there is no way an engine would be run up to redline.

So you are saying that Nissan recommends it's Ester Oil but does not use it? Seriously? Talk about gum-flapping! Do you know anything about the VVEL tapping issue? Nissan started using Ester oil in the VQ engine in the G37 (they also re-calibrated the ecu) because of it. The TSB is ITB08-028a. Wasn't hard to locate on the internet.

What does oil have to do with the ECU recalibration?

ZKindaGuy · 11-14-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

So, again, Nissan highly recommends (can't require, by law) the oil but does not use it themselves for the factory fill, which will be used during the most crucial period (break-in) and which would help limit the number of warranty issues with the engine? Really? Man, that is one dumb company.

The TSB, by the way, states that Nissan Ester oil is required when reflashing the ECU under the TSB procedure for the 3.7 VHR. Isn't the ECU reflash at this point done at the factory?

EDIT: Nissan Technical Service Bulletin ITB08-028a
EDIT: The Owner's Manual was written long before ITB08-028a

I just looked good and hard at your Avatar.......ROFLMAO!!!!!!

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Like I said, if you have proof, post it up!

Well I guess you're too busy to read the TSB? I think I posted the name of it at least twice. Go right ahead and use whatever oil you want, geez, I ain't the hallway monitor.

From bobtheoilguy.com:

There is an interesting article by Mike Kojima that goes
into great detail about the Nissan oil. The price is about the same as Redline. Here are a couple of quotes:

"Nissan's special oil and their newly developed hydrogen free DLC coating on cam followers reduces the amount of friction produced by the valve train by a huge amount. This can make a considerable difference in fuel economy, power output and perhaps even heat generation.

What is Nissan's special oil? The oil was developed to complement Nissan's Hydrogen free DLC coating used on the cam followers in the QR25DE engine, the VQ35HR and the VQ37VHR engines. DLC stands for diamond like coating, which is an amorphous layer of carbon crystals with hard smooth properties much like diamond. Most of valve train friction is created by the interface between the cam follower and the cam lobe. DLC is very slippery stuff and Nissan uses it to reduce valvetrain friction to improve fuel economy, reduce emission and increase power.

Nissan, in their search for improving oils frictional properties, figured out a way to substitute ultra hard nano particles for the normal chemical friction modifiers adding some interesting molecular twists. Again due to the convoluted nature of Nissan’s white papers and patents, its hard to guess exactly what the nano particles are but they are definitely an ultra hard industrial abrasive or bearing type ceramic and probably at least in part, nano particles of industrial diamond

Nissans super oil is around 0.5% nano particles by weight. The particles are probably around 10 nanometers in diameter, really very small! A certain percentage of the nano particles have to be carbon based, preferably single crystal synthetic diamond. The carbon content helps make the nano particles attracted to the low hydrogen DLC coating. Instead of making a slippery metallic film on bare metal parts like traditional friction modifiers, the nano particles act like atomic level miniature ball bearings, preventing metal to metal contact and reducing friction to previously unheard of levels. These nano particles are ashless if they find there way into the engine, making the oil low deposit forming for lower emissions. The Nissan super oil does most of its friction reduction in the valvetrain but it still helps in other parts of the engine.

Trips · 11-14-2009, 01:44 PM

these types of topics, are always going to have controversy and in the end what's the answer? that depends who your listening to....it's like asking what's the best car under 50k? right!

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKindaGuy

What does oil have to do with the ECU recalibration?

NOTE: You must always use Nissan Ester Oil P/N 999MP-5W30EP as listed in the Parts Information
section of this bulletin. Do not use any other oil for this Service Procedure.

EC08-010a ITB08-028a September 3, 2008

2008 G37 COUPE; NOISE FROM BANK 2 VVEL ACTUATOR

This bulletin amends ITB08-028. The Actions, Parts Information, and Service Procedure sections have been amended.
Please discard all earlier versions.

APPLIED VEHICLE:2008 G37 Coupe (CV36)

IF YOU CONFIRM:

A slight ticking / tapping / knocking noise coming from the bank 2 (driver side) VVEL (Variable Valve Event &
Lift) actuator,

ACTIONS:

1. Refer to Step 2 in the Service Procedure to confirm this bulletin applies to the vehicle you are working on.
2. If this bulletin applies; reprogram the ECM.
3. Perform an engine oil and filter change using the parts listed in the Parts Information table.
NOTE: You must always use Nissan Ester Oil P/N 999MP-5W30EP as listed in the Parts Information
section of this bulletin. Do not use any other oil for this Service Procedure.

IMPORTANT: The purpose of "ACTIONS" (above) is to give you a quick idea of the work you will be
performing. You MUST closely follow the entire Service Procedure as it contains information that is essential to
successfully completing this repair.

Infiniti Bulletinsare intended for use by qualified technicians, not 'do-it-yourselfers'. Qualified technicians are properly trained
individuals who have the equipment, tools, safety instruction, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. NOTE: If you believe
that a described condition may apply to a particular vehicle, DO NOT assume that it does. See your Infiniti dealer to determine if thisapplies to your vehicle.

1/5

PARTS INFORMATION

PARTS INFORMATION
PARTNUMBERQUANTITYNissan Ester Oil 999MP-5W30EP 5
Nissan Oil Filter 15208-65F0B 1

Nissan Ester Oil and all chemicals are ordered through the Nissan Direct Ship Chemical Care Product
Program: Phone 1.800.811.0502, Fax 1.770.218.0148, Website order link via dealer portal www.NNAnet.com
or order direct Genuine Nissan Automotive Chemicals.

CLAIMS INFORMATION

Submit a Primary Failed Part (PP) line claim using the following claims coding:

DESCRIPTION PFP OP CODE SYM DIA FRT
Reprogram ECM and Change
Oil and filter per TSB
(1)DX25AA(2)
ZE320.9hrs(2)

(1) Reference the Repair Order and use the current ECM P/N written down in Step 2 as the PFP.
(2) FRT allows adequate time to access DTC codes and reprogram ECM. No other diagnostic procedures
subsequently required – DO NOT claim any Diagnostic Op Codes with this claim.
2/5 ITB08-028

SERVICE PROCEDURE

SERVICE PROCEDURE
Connect C-III to the vehicle to begin the reprogramming procedure.
•If you are not familiar with the reprogramming procedure, click here. This will link you to the
"CONSULT- III (C-III) ECM Reprogramming" general procedure.
2. When you get to the ECM Reprogramming screen shown in Figure 1, confirm this bulletin applies as
follows:
A. On your C-III screen, look at the Part Number column (see Figure 1):
•If this column is blank (no part number listed), this bulletin does not apply. Close C-III and refer to
ASIST for further diagnostic information.
•If a Part Number is listed, write it on the Repair Order.
A
**********************
Figure 1

B. Go to C on the next page.
3/5 ITB08-028

C. C.
•If there is a match, this bulletin applies; continue with the reprogramming procedure.
NOTE: If there are two lines (two reprogramming options) on your C-III screen, use the one
that does not have the message “Caution! Use ONLY with ITBXX-XXX”.

•If there is not a match, this bulletin does not apply. Close C-III and refer to ASIST for further
diagnostic information.
Table A

ModelVehicle ConfigurationCurrent ECM
Part Number: 23710 -
AT, ASCD JK70E, JK70D, JK70C, JK70B, JK70A
AT, ASCD, Sport JK71E, JK71D, JK71C, JK71B, JK71A
2008 G37 AT, ACC JK72E, JK72D, JK72C, JK72B, JK72A
AT, ACC, Sport JK73E, JK73D, JK73C, JK73B, JK73A
MT, ASCD, JK75D, JK75C, JK75B, JK75A
MT, ACC, JK77D, JK77C, JK77B, JK77A

3. If this bulletin applies and you have performed ECM reprogramming, the screen in Figure 2 displays when
the reprogramming is completed.
Print this screen and attach it to the Repair Order for Warranty documentation.

Figure 2

4/5 ITB08-028

4. 4.
5. Change the engine oil and filter. Refer to section LU of the Electronic Service Manual for the procedure.
6. Test drive the vehicle and make sure it operates correctly and the Check Engine light is OFF.
•If the Check Engine light comes ON; diagnose, perform repairs, and erase DTCs.
•Diagnosis and repairs beyond the ECM reprogramming are not covered by this bulletin.
5/5 ITB08-028

Trips · 11-14-2009, 01:51 PM

with Steve's Proof! can we call it a day?

Modshack · 11-14-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple's

with Steve's Proof! can we call it a day?

Nope...Says nothing about the current factory fill. The TSB was to solve an early problem, since rectified. The controversy continues!

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple's

with Steve's Proof! can we call it a day?

I doubt it, Trip. You know all about the "assume" thing

370Zsteve · 11-14-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Nope...Says nothing about the current factory fill. The TSB was to solve an early problem, since rectified. The controversy continues!

Wow. OK, we'll agree to disagree. Nissan developed it's own oil specifically for this engine, but they don't use it. Sounds reasonable.

"The oil was developed to complement Nissan's Hydrogen free DLC coating used on the cam followers in the QR25DE engine, the VQ35HR and the VQ37VHR engines."

kannibul · 11-14-2009, 02:03 PM

OK everyone, lets stop arguing, 370zSteve is totally and 100% correct.

Lets all make a future effort to never disagree with 370zSteve, as he's proven us all wrong, and while our facts and opinions may be correct in the real world, on the internet, 370zSteve is king, and makes all the rules, and is never, NEVER, NEVER wrong.

-----------

As for the requirement Nissan includes in the ECU Reprogramming bulletin - perhaps it's so that Nissan can't fault the tech for incorectly flashing the ECU. It has nothing to do with the ECU, it has everything to do with Nissan covering all the bases, as they tend to do, to ensure that things are done very specifically and in a very controlled way. Nissan has tested their proceedure by having the engine loaded with thier brand of oil. Not hard to imagine. They make it a requirement because that's what they know is in the engine in the conditions that they tested with, and know that to produce successful results.

Now, the real question for the bulletin is this - why reprogram/flash the ECU to correct the VVEL system making a tapping noise....not why did they use Nissan brand oil...

11-14-2009, 12:34 PM	#77 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,730 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	__________________

11-14-2009, 01:23 PM	#79 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,730 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	is the dueling over? __________________

11-14-2009, 01:44 PM	#84 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,730 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	these types of topics, are always going to have controversy and in the end what's the answer? that depends who your listening to....it's like asking what's the best car under 50k? right! __________________

11-14-2009, 01:51 PM	#86 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,730 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	with Steve's Proof! can we call it a day? __________________

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11-14-2009, 02:03 PM	#90 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 267	OK everyone, lets stop arguing, 370zSteve is totally and 100% correct. Lets all make a future effort to never disagree with 370zSteve, as he's proven us all wrong, and while our facts and opinions may be correct in the real world, on the internet, 370zSteve is king, and makes all the rules, and is never, NEVER, NEVER wrong. ----------- As for the requirement Nissan includes in the ECU Reprogramming bulletin - perhaps it's so that Nissan can't fault the tech for incorectly flashing the ECU. It has nothing to do with the ECU, it has everything to do with Nissan covering all the bases, as they tend to do, to ensure that things are done very specifically and in a very controlled way. Nissan has tested their proceedure by having the engine loaded with thier brand of oil. Not hard to imagine. They make it a requirement because that's what they know is in the engine in the conditions that they tested with, and know that to produce successful results. Now, the real question for the bulletin is this - why reprogram/flash the ECU to correct the VVEL system making a tapping noise....not why did they use Nissan brand oil...