Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

SurfDog · 10-18-2017, 09:38 PM

Before rebuild and after with JWT V1 cams

17 hp
7.6 torque

SG4247 · 10-19-2017, 08:51 AM

That is pretty darn stout!

Great work!

Chuck33079 · 10-19-2017, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

Before rebuild and after with JWT V1 cams

17 hp
7.6 torque

Those are the numbers at 9000 feet? Nice. At sea level that's a lot bigger number.

SurfDog · 10-19-2017, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Those are the numbers at 9000 feet? Nice. At sea level that's a lot bigger number.

Well... Parker Colorado so 5500 feet but still.

I figure 20-25 hp loss from sea level.

ban25 · 10-19-2017, 08:06 PM

Isn’t it pre-corrected? The chart says SAE 1.23...

SG4247 · 10-19-2017, 09:17 PM

What tune is on it?

The correection factor takes care of the elevation and weather if the dyno calibration and set up is done correctly.

SurfDog · 10-20-2017, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4247

What tune is on it?

The correction factor takes care of the elevation and weather if the dyno calibration and set up is done correctly.

I'm no dyno expert. It could be altitude corrected, I wouldn't know. If it is, I'm about 20 hp shy of what I would expect based on my build.

Either way, the motor "feels" strong and is pulling *very* well compared to other vq37s according to the tuner. The number on the graph is usually considered less important than the move from baseline which was about as expected from the rebuild so I'm happy with the results.

SG4247 · 10-20-2017, 10:27 AM

UpRev or ECUTEC?

SurfDog · 10-20-2017, 11:38 AM

UpRev

SG4247 · 10-20-2017, 01:51 PM

See that 24.62 inHg? That is very low atmospheric pressure due to local elevation. The lower the pressure the higher the elevation. So, the correction factor increases your results to correct your numbers to std.

Here in OK at 1250 ft elevation, pressure runs between 28.5 to 29.5 in Hg.

Std pressure (sea level) is 29.92 inHg, so you were definately in some "thin" air!

SurfDog · 12-11-2017, 11:14 PM

Standard day is 29.92 and 15 decrees C.

SurfDog · 12-11-2017, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

Just take it to MaMotorsports

I have to concur. IPP has been a bit of a disappointment. I installed their heads and reinstalled my complete rebuild only to discover their valve lash is out of spec, and my motor is pretty loud (and self destructive) up there. My go to guy at the Nissan dealer is telling me me I need to relash the heads. (15 hours labor).

Z1 agrees.
My local speed shop guy concurs.
IPP is mulling it over.

So... it looks like I might be dropping in the V2 cam after all (considering I have to rebuild the head anyway)

That’s not good.

Anyhow IPP may usually pretty good, but...
1. It took them months to get my head back (understandably due to Houston flooding) still...
2. They did not know about the V2 cam and when I asked them about it were a bit evasive. (I would definitely gone to MA had I known IPP was clueless about the new cam. I directly asked IPP if they were purltting in the new JWT second generation cam and they said they were.
3. When I complained about a loud head and sent them a video clip with the pretty bad cam knock, they initially said “that can’t be our head!” Well it was.
4. They did not accept my “cores” which were fine, and charged me for new ones. That seemed a bit fishy. They said I over disassembled the heads for shipping? Maybe that is a thing but it seemed strange
5. IPP asked me to check my chain followers they were fine. IPP asked me to check the VVEL (cam phasers), they were fine (checked by dealer). Now they are asking me to check the lash, and I am but they are very obviously out. All this is costing time and money. I think IPP is in denial a bit.

I am reserving judgment on IPP depending on how they offer to remedy the complete mess they have made of my heads, and I understand any shop can goof it up, but I’ve had a very substandard experience so far and my Z is still out of action 4 months later (awaiting a rebuild of those goofed up IPP heads.)

...and I’m probably going to have to repurchase JWT cams to run the V2... and a reflash... and a retune... not the end of the world, but an expensive bummer. 3000 bucks to fix all this I’d guess.

I’m not a big complainer usually, but this has been pretty rough.

Spooler · 12-12-2017, 01:50 AM

Why did you go with IPP anyway. Everything I have read in my research is their stuff is not that good.

SurfDog · 12-12-2017, 03:42 AM

Great question. I have heard good things about the shop, and this story is still not over. I”m hoping IPP will make this right. I’ll let you all know how it shakes out. I hope to hear back soon about what their idea for the next step in getting me up and running is. Pulling the heads and shipping them back is probably not a viable option just due to labor costs. I will probably have to have the lash redone locally.

I understand stuff happens, and I think they are good guys down there. It will be interesting to see how well they stand behind there work. Like I said I’m reserving judgment. They may yet come through and make this right.

It has been quite a voyage so far trying to put my blown Motor back together.

Kyle(Houston) · 12-12-2017, 10:28 AM

Lets talk about this

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

I have to concur. IPP has been a bit of a disappointment. I installed their heads and reinstalled my complete rebuild only to discover their valve lash is out of spec, and my motor is pretty loud (and self destructive) up there. My go to guy at the Nissan dealer is telling me me I need to relash the heads. (15 hours labor).

Z1 agrees.
My local speed shop guy concurs.
IPP is mulling it over.

*** I am not mulling it over. I have held your installers hand through this whole process. They obviously aren't real experienced working on these heads(more on that later). ***

So... it looks like I might be dropping in the V2 cam after all (considering I have to rebuild the head anyway)

That’s not good.

Anyhow IPP may usually pretty good, but...
1. It took them months to get my head back (understandably due to Houston flooding) still...

*** Yes it took longer then expected after the devastation of Harvey and I did keep you up to date and apologized profusely for the delays. Plus the fact that we had to find a set of heads for you instead of using your heads. ***

2. They did not know about the V2 cam and when I asked them about it were a bit evasive. (I would definitely gone to MA had I known IPP was clueless about the new cam. I directly asked IPP if they were purltting in the new JWT second generation cam and they said they were.

*** That was the problem. You keep calling them the *V2* cams which usually means Version 2 and I told you I get the cams directly from JWT, so they would be the newest version. The *C2* cams are NOT a new version, they are a completely different cam. The *C2* cam is not available from anyone except MA until next year as they have the exclusive since they were the ones who tested them for JWT. So next year JWT and everyone else will be selling the C1 and C2 cams. There is no such thing as a V2 cam. ***

3. When I complained about a loud head and sent them a video clip with the pretty bad cam knock, they initially said “that can’t be our head!” Well it was.

*** No. I actually have been working with your shop to determine what the noise is and where it is coming from. They have told me that your original motor completely locked up and they reused your VVEL actuator sub assembly. Which in the service manual; Nissan says not to:

"VVEL actuator sub assembly and VVEL control shaft position sensor are nonreusable. Never remove them unless they are required."

So there is a strong possibility that the sub assembly may be bad and causing issues. ***

4. They did not accept my “cores” which were fine, and charged me for new ones. That seemed a bit fishy. They said I over disassembled the heads for shipping? Maybe that is a thing but it seemed strange

*** This is where I have a problem with your installers. They sent me your heads *COMPLETELY* disassembled.

Here is a quote from the Nissan service manual:

"CAUTION:
Never loosen adjusting bolts (A) and mounting bolts (black color) (B) of VVEL ladder assembly. If loosened, the stroke of cam lift becomes out of adjustment. In such case, replacement of VVEL ladder assembly and cylinder head assembly is required.
NOTE:
VVEL ladder assembly cannot be replaced as a single part, because it is machined together with cylinder
head assembly."

Your heads had the VVEL ladder assembly completely disassembled which makes them completely useless now. I can provide pictures if needed.

It scares me that your installers don't follow the Nissan service manual. ***

5. IPP asked me to check my chain followers they were fine. IPP asked me to check the VVEL (cam phasers), they were fine (checked by dealer). Now they are asking me to check the lash, and I am but they are very obviously out. All this is costing time and money. I think IPP is in denial a bit.

*** Since your original heads were completely disassembled against the service manuals instructions and your VVEL actuator sub assembly and VVEL control shaft position sensor were reused off of a motor that was completely destroyed; I am trying to find out if it is an issue with something we did or an install error. Since so many errors were made already through your installers. ***

I am reserving judgment on IPP depending on how they offer to remedy the complete mess they have made of my heads, and I understand any shop can goof it up, but I’ve had a very substandard experience so far and my Z is still out of action 4 months later (awaiting a rebuild of those goofed up IPP heads.)

*** And I am waiting to find out what the real issue is with your heads and/or install. If your heads have a valve lash issue, it will be the first case in over 550 motors/heads we have built since 2006. Not to say that a mistake could not have been made by my head guys but I do have some major issues with the way your installers have done things. I will continue to work with you and your installers to get to the root cause of the noise. ***

...and I’m probably going to have to repurchase JWT cams to run the V2... and a reflash... and a retune... not the end of the world, but an expensive bummer. 3000 bucks to fix all this I’d guess.

*** If you are going to replace your cams; you would be getting the *C2* cams. There is no such thing as a V2 JWT cam. ***

I’m not a big complainer usually, but this has been pretty rough.

10-18-2017, 09:38 PM	#346 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 56 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15749	Before rebuild and after with JWT V1 cams 17 hp 7.6 torque SS_Firehawk, Rusty, Hotrodz and 1 others like this. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

10-19-2017, 08:51 AM	#347 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 783 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	That is pretty darn stout! Great work! SurfDog likes this.

10-19-2017, 08:06 PM	#350 (permalink)
ban25 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF, CA Posts: 339 Drives: 17 C7 Z06 M7 Rep Power: 65	Isn’t it pre-corrected? The chart says SAE 1.23... SurfDog likes this. __________________ 2017 Corvette Z06 7MT \| 1LE \| Stage 3 \| DSCSport

10-20-2017, 11:38 AM	#354 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 56 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15749	UpRev __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

10-20-2017, 01:51 PM	#355 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 783 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	See that 24.62 inHg? That is very low atmospheric pressure due to local elevation. The lower the pressure the higher the elevation. So, the correction factor increases your results to correct your numbers to std. Here in OK at 1250 ft elevation, pressure runs between 28.5 to 29.5 in Hg. Std pressure (sea level) is 29.92 inHg, so you were definately in some "thin" air! Last edited by SG4247; 10-20-2017 at 01:55 PM.

10-19-2017, 09:17 PM	#351 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 783 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	What tune is on it? The correection factor takes care of the elevation and weather if the dyno calibration and set up is done correctly.

10-20-2017, 10:27 AM	#353 (permalink)
SG4247 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: OKC Posts: 783 Drives: 2010 touring Rep Power: 7842	UpRev or ECUTEC?

12-11-2017, 11:14 PM	#356 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 56 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15749	Standard day is 29.92 and 15 decrees C. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

12-12-2017, 01:50 AM	#358 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,792 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	Why did you go with IPP anyway. Everything I have read in my research is their stuff is not that good.

12-12-2017, 03:42 AM	#359 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 56 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15749	Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside! Great question. I have heard good things about the shop, and this story is still not over. I”m hoping IPP will make this right. I’ll let you all know how it shakes out. I hope to hear back soon about what their idea for the next step in getting me up and running is. Pulling the heads and shipping them back is probably not a viable option just due to labor costs. I will probably have to have the lash redone locally. I understand stuff happens, and I think they are good guys down there. It will be interesting to see how well they stand behind there work. Like I said I’m reserving judgment. They may yet come through and make this right. It has been quite a voyage so far trying to put my blown Motor back together. Rusty likes this. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix Last edited by SurfDog; 12-12-2017 at 01:11 PM.

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