DIY: Fresh Air Ducting for Stillen G3 Users

Zxces50 · 02-14-2010, 05:18 PM

Kept it simple - black pvc 4"-3" reducers and 3 " alum adjustable elbows. Removed entire fang blank off cover - trimmed up 4" PVC reducer to fit onto back of fang, mounted with same bolt as cover, shortened up 3" alum elbow to clear front bumper structure when installed painted elbow black-went back on car easy - can reach in from below to direct alum elbow in any direction- I pointed up to G3 filters- or you could duct to brakes if wanted- took about 2 hours total and $8. Put alum screen in front to keep out leaves and stuff. seems to work great no noise, whistle or any noise at any speed

jtown82 · 03-17-2010, 12:35 AM

you would see cooler temps and better air flow using one side to bring in air and rearranging the other side to let the air out. that will allow more unused "hot" air to escape and allow for more cooler air to come in. your current setup is very flawed when it comes to the properties of Air if your trying to bring in cooler air. your basically making both those ducts fight for the same volume that one would be better off doing by itself.

trust me. growing up around my grandfather who spent his entire life working on air conditioners and swamp coolers and 5893475987 other cooling devices. and me being brought along. 1 route in and 1 route out always net better performance than 2 routes in and nowhere to escape. in this instance nowhere to escape means those filters are stuck having to suck in in very turbulent air thats being mixed with old and new air.

make one duct specifically to give that air coming in somewhere to escape other than the filters somewhere underneath if possible pointing backwards which would create a vacuum in a perfect setup. this will allow better airflow to the filter, reduce recycled heat soaked air to mix with the fresh air coming in and also act as a natural suction to help bring in air.

think of the top of the line computer cases the best cooling involves a fan to bring air in and one to suck air out. or better yet Turbine engines in airliners. one set of blades is pulling air in. the other set is pushing it out. this is the best and most efficient use of air's natural physics when the systems in not a sealed enclosure.

just my 2 cents. and im not trying to be mr negative just trying to help out

efuseakay · 03-23-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown82

you would see cooler temps and better air flow using one side to bring in air and rearranging the other side to let the air out. that will allow more unused "hot" air to escape and allow for more cooler air to come in. your current setup is very flawed when it comes to the properties of Air if your trying to bring in cooler air. your basically making both those ducts fight for the same volume that one would be better off doing by itself.

trust me. growing up around my grandfather who spent his entire life working on air conditioners and swamp coolers and 5893475987 other cooling devices. and me being brought along. 1 route in and 1 route out always net better performance than 2 routes in and nowhere to escape. in this instance nowhere to escape means those filters are stuck having to suck in in very turbulent air thats being mixed with old and new air.

make one duct specifically to give that air coming in somewhere to escape other than the filters somewhere underneath if possible pointing backwards which would create a vacuum in a perfect setup. this will allow better airflow to the filter, reduce recycled heat soaked air to mix with the fresh air coming in and also act as a natural suction to help bring in air.

think of the top of the line computer cases the best cooling involves a fan to bring air in and one to suck air out. or better yet Turbine engines in airliners. one set of blades is pulling air in. the other set is pushing it out. this is the best and most efficient use of air's natural physics when the systems in not a sealed enclosure.

just my 2 cents. and im not trying to be mr negative just trying to help out

Yeah, turbulence is definitely an issue, as well as in-out... Perhaps a one-side-in full bumper-length piece with two outlets right in front of the filters themselves, and an outlet somewhere out/underneath the passenger side...

Damn... someone could make a fortune if they put together a fancy looking kit with proven gains for the Stillen system! lol

370Zsteve · 05-11-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown82

you would see cooler temps and better air flow using one side to bring in air and rearranging the other side to let the air out. that will allow more unused "hot" air to escape and allow for more cooler air to come in. your current setup is very flawed when it comes to the properties of Air if your trying to bring in cooler air. your basically making both those ducts fight for the same volume that one would be better off doing by itself.

trust me. growing up around my grandfather who spent his entire life working on air conditioners and swamp coolers and 5893475987 other cooling devices. and me being brought along. 1 route in and 1 route out always net better performance than 2 routes in and nowhere to escape. in this instance nowhere to escape means those filters are stuck having to suck in in very turbulent air thats being mixed with old and new air.

make one duct specifically to give that air coming in somewhere to escape other than the filters somewhere underneath if possible pointing backwards which would create a vacuum in a perfect setup. this will allow better airflow to the filter, reduce recycled heat soaked air to mix with the fresh air coming in and also act as a natural suction to help bring in air.

think of the top of the line computer cases the best cooling involves a fan to bring air in and one to suck air out. or better yet Turbine engines in airliners. one set of blades is pulling air in. the other set is pushing it out. this is the best and most efficient use of air's natural physics when the systems in not a sealed enclosure.

just my 2 cents. and im not trying to be mr negative just trying to help out

This is an excellent post! Perhaps one fang vent used for intake, and the other modded the same visually but not running duct-work....

I don't think you would need "exhaust ducting" to flush out turbulence, just one duct coming in and the air would flow over the filters and dissipate via normal airflow

djpathfinder · 05-11-2010, 12:06 PM

Yup, or use the other duct for brake cooling, if you track your car...

Zxces50 · 05-14-2010, 08:57 PM

Since my original install added the Stillen street oil cooler so I had to remove the elbow on that side and that fang now just dumps in straight just to the left of the cooler- I left the other elbow on and directed up towards the G3 intake- I agree with the turbulance comment but is seems to be working just fine- I do track the Z and have not seen any negative with cooling or air not getting where it needs efficiently- havin lots-o-fun

Armonster · 03-23-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown82

you would see cooler temps and better air flow using one side to bring in air and rearranging the other side to let the air out. that will allow more unused "hot" air to escape and allow for more cooler air to come in. your current setup is very flawed when it comes to the properties of Air if your trying to bring in cooler air. your basically making both those ducts fight for the same volume that one would be better off doing by itself.

trust me. growing up around my grandfather who spent his entire life working on air conditioners and swamp coolers and 5893475987 other cooling devices. and me being brought along. 1 route in and 1 route out always net better performance than 2 routes in and nowhere to escape. in this instance nowhere to escape means those filters are stuck having to suck in in very turbulent air thats being mixed with old and new air.

make one duct specifically to give that air coming in somewhere to escape other than the filters somewhere underneath if possible pointing backwards which would create a vacuum in a perfect setup. this will allow better airflow to the filter, reduce recycled heat soaked air to mix with the fresh air coming in and also act as a natural suction to help bring in air.

think of the top of the line computer cases the best cooling involves a fan to bring air in and one to suck air out. or better yet Turbine engines in airliners. one set of blades is pulling air in. the other set is pushing it out. this is the best and most efficient use of air's natural physics when the systems in not a sealed enclosure.

just my 2 cents. and im not trying to be mr negative just trying to help out

I agree with you in a general sense, but I'm not sure it really applies in this situation. Computer cases are different because you are just trying to get air flow across a surface, rather than forcing the air inside something. Here, we are not trying to get air flow across the filters, but rather air flow INTO the filters (and into the radiator). Furthermore, unlike a computer case or air conditioner, the air forced up there already has a number of escape routes (the most obvious one being through the radiator) that it will naturally flow to because of the pressure differences. And wouldn't you want air to exit through your radiator rather than an exhaust tube?

If anything, I think routing both pipes up there would be better, because (1) it would (slightly) increase the air pressure that the intake experiences; probably not enough to even call it a "poor man's supercharger" or anything, but who knows, and (2) assuming the air has sufficient escape routes, which it probably does as explained earlier, two pipes would put more cool air up there, to be used by your air intakes or sucked out through the radiator.

Finally, the point about turbulent air is not really relevant here. Air flow goes from laminar to turbulent at very low speeds, so once you start driving over 5 or 10 MPH (just guessing here, it's probably much slower) all of the air circulating around and inside every inch of the car is already turbulent. Not to mention that ducting isn't even smooth enough to maintain a laminar flow of water at driving speeds, much less air.

In conclusion, I give this DIY a

wstar · 05-14-2011, 05:03 PM

I recently (a week or so ago?) completed my own similar setup. I used the parts from Modshack's original DIY (the fang flanges, mounted the same way, and the same hoses), but I did the hose routing basically like the pics in cotizi's top post here (around the sides), and brought the ends of my hoses up to where they're even with the backs of the Gen 3 filters. I used some long plastic zip-ties at the ends and a couple places along the middle to keep everything in place.

I monitor my temps (Ambient, Oil, Coolant, Intake) pretty religiously all the time. I have my cellphone docked in my cubby w/ the door removed, and run Torque on that to monitor the coolant/intake temps, among other things.

The simple summary of the IAT changes is this: at highway-ish speeds (60+) it makes only a tiny difference, and I doubt it's enough to make up for the aero losses opening up the fangs. However, at slower rolling speeds it's actually really effective.

Prior to hooking up the ducting, I was generally observing a +12-13F IAT (over Ambient*** reading) at highway cruising speeds, and ramping up pretty quickly at slower speeds (not uncommon to see +30 or more at speeds under 30-35mph, depending on weather and traffic). With the ducting the highway is about +9-12 now, but at lower speeds I'm never more than +20-25 worst case (e.g. 10mph in traffic for a while). In general the IATs drop off a lot faster now as I accelerate, and stay lower longer as I decelerate as well.

I assume the minimal difference at highway speeds is because at those airflow rates the default Stillen setup was already getting all the air it could use through the main front grill. At lower speeds though, the ducted fresh air displaces some of the radiant hot air we'd otherwise be drawing off the top side of the radiator.

My net take on it is that it's definitely worth it for city driving and the track. Especially in a track scenario on a hard corner, I imagine it could save you 10 more degrees on your IAT at the moment you're starting to accel out of the corner, which is when you really want it the most. On a highway road trip it probably just eats MPG via aero losses for tiny gains though. Be nice to find a way to plug them for a roadtrip, might not be that hard to figure out.

*** - Keep in mind that our Ambient temp sensor is pretty useless in the absolute sense: they get road dust, dirt, and fluids splashed on them, they're not terribly responsive, and their relationship to the true ambient temp (vs coolant/oil temps) varies with other changes in the airflow/heat configuration under the bumper (coolers, etc).

Nismo221 · 05-14-2011, 05:46 PM

I was thinking of doing something like this.

Lemers · 05-14-2011, 05:57 PM

Stillen's front bumper has an opening just for their Gen III intakes

V8Killer · 07-02-2011, 02:58 AM

Is there an update on this thread?

V8Killer · 07-02-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny McLain

Have you tried logging intake temps to see if it makes a difference? Adding an oil cooler and will probably give your mod an attempt when it arrives. Good thinking.

Wrapped the Gen 3 intake tubes with 2 layers of insulated heat barrier and have been logging intake temps. After findout out the intake sensor was located with the passengers side MAF, I put an additional two layers around it this morning. Think that really did help.

Will do your mod probably next weekend. Thanks!!

Has anybody done this? Wrapped the G3's?

cotizi · 07-02-2011, 10:35 AM

I've actually removed my air ducting to rework a brake ducting system. At the time i wrote this DIY my car was a DD, but now its a dedicated track car. Need more brake cooling!

V8Killer · 07-02-2011, 11:39 AM

Did wrapping the tubes help you any?

ValidusVentus · 11-06-2011, 08:23 PM

kind of a dead thread but Id be very interested to see what you came up with for your brake ducting Cotizi. I did one track day recently on stock brakes... not good.

Edit: I do have new 2piece front and 1 piece rear slotted DBS rotors, Endless pads and fluid, and SS lines on the way but were delayed until after the track day.

05-11-2010, 12:06 PM	#20 (permalink)
djpathfinder A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 12,910 Drives: 2012 GT-R BE Rep Power: 733	Yup, or use the other duct for brake cooling, if you track your car... __________________ 2012 GT-R Black Edition Jet Black 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary // SOLD

05-14-2011, 05:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	I recently (a week or so ago?) completed my own similar setup. I used the parts from Modshack's original DIY (the fang flanges, mounted the same way, and the same hoses), but I did the hose routing basically like the pics in cotizi's top post here (around the sides), and brought the ends of my hoses up to where they're even with the backs of the Gen 3 filters. I used some long plastic zip-ties at the ends and a couple places along the middle to keep everything in place. I monitor my temps (Ambient, Oil, Coolant, Intake) pretty religiously all the time. I have my cellphone docked in my cubby w/ the door removed, and run Torque on that to monitor the coolant/intake temps, among other things. The simple summary of the IAT changes is this: at highway-ish speeds (60+) it makes only a tiny difference, and I doubt it's enough to make up for the aero losses opening up the fangs. However, at slower rolling speeds it's actually really effective. Prior to hooking up the ducting, I was generally observing a +12-13F IAT (over Ambient* reading) at highway cruising speeds, and ramping up pretty quickly at slower speeds (not uncommon to see +30 or more at speeds under 30-35mph, depending on weather and traffic). With the ducting the highway is about +9-12 now, but at lower speeds I'm never more than +20-25 worst case (e.g. 10mph in traffic for a while). In general the IATs drop off a lot faster now as I accelerate, and stay lower longer as I decelerate as well. I assume the minimal difference at highway speeds is because at those airflow rates the default Stillen setup was already getting all the air it could use through the main front grill. At lower speeds though, the ducted fresh air displaces some of the radiant hot air we'd otherwise be drawing off the top side of the radiator. My net take on it is that it's definitely worth it for city driving and the track. Especially in a track scenario on a hard corner, I imagine it could save you 10 more degrees on your IAT at the moment you're starting to accel out of the corner, which is when you really want it the most. On a highway road trip it probably just eats MPG via aero losses for tiny gains though. Be nice to find a way to plug them for a roadtrip, might not be that hard to figure out. * - Keep in mind that our Ambient temp sensor is pretty useless in the absolute sense: they get road dust, dirt, and fluids splashed on them, they're not terribly responsive, and their relationship to the true ambient temp (vs coolant/oil temps) varies with other changes in the airflow/heat configuration under the bumper (coolers, etc). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 05-14-2011 at 05:06 PM.

05-14-2011, 05:46 PM	#24 (permalink)
Nismo221 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Decatur, Alabama Age: 36 Posts: 489 Drives: 2010 370z Nismo Rep Power: 15	I was thinking of doing something like this. __________________ Stillen Gen 3, Motordyne M370 Intake Manifold, 25 row oil cooler, Z1 test pipes, Greddy Ti-C 70mm dual exhaust, 15mm front/20mm rear spacers, RE-11's, V1 detector, LED interior lights, LED tag lights, Password JDM CF engine and radiator cooling covers.

05-14-2011, 05:57 PM	#25 (permalink)
Lemers A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Izmir, Turkey Posts: 15,371 Drives: 2012 Traverse LTZ Rep Power: 52	Stillen's front bumper has an opening just for their Gen III intakes __________________ 2010 Black Cherry Touring/Sport/Nav Now - 2012 Travese LTZ until I leave for Turkey

07-02-2011, 10:35 AM	#28 (permalink)
cotizi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 391 Drives: 2012 VW GTI 6MT Rep Power: 217	I've actually removed my air ducting to rework a brake ducting system. At the time i wrote this DIY my car was a DD, but now its a dedicated track car. Need more brake cooling! __________________ Past - 2009 Silver 6MT Sport 370Z Current - 2012 VW GTI 6-Speed

03-17-2010, 12:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
jtown82 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: southern Arkansas Posts: 158 Drives: 09 chicane yellow Z Rep Power: 15	you would see cooler temps and better air flow using one side to bring in air and rearranging the other side to let the air out. that will allow more unused "hot" air to escape and allow for more cooler air to come in. your current setup is very flawed when it comes to the properties of Air if your trying to bring in cooler air. your basically making both those ducts fight for the same volume that one would be better off doing by itself. trust me. growing up around my grandfather who spent his entire life working on air conditioners and swamp coolers and 5893475987 other cooling devices. and me being brought along. 1 route in and 1 route out always net better performance than 2 routes in and nowhere to escape. in this instance nowhere to escape means those filters are stuck having to suck in in very turbulent air thats being mixed with old and new air. make one duct specifically to give that air coming in somewhere to escape other than the filters somewhere underneath if possible pointing backwards which would create a vacuum in a perfect setup. this will allow better airflow to the filter, reduce recycled heat soaked air to mix with the fresh air coming in and also act as a natural suction to help bring in air. think of the top of the line computer cases the best cooling involves a fan to bring air in and one to suck air out. or better yet Turbine engines in airliners. one set of blades is pulling air in. the other set is pushing it out. this is the best and most efficient use of air's natural physics when the systems in not a sealed enclosure. just my 2 cents. and im not trying to be mr negative just trying to help out

05-14-2010, 08:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Zxces50 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 208 Drives: 15 C7 Stingray Z51 Rep Power: 16	Since my original install added the Stillen street oil cooler so I had to remove the elbow on that side and that fang now just dumps in straight just to the left of the cooler- I left the other elbow on and directed up towards the G3 intake- I agree with the turbulance comment but is seems to be working just fine- I do track the Z and have not seen any negative with cooling or air not getting where it needs efficiently- havin lots-o-fun

07-02-2011, 02:58 AM	#26 (permalink)
V8Killer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, NC Posts: 1,127 Drives: It Hard Till It Pops Rep Power: 16	Is there an update on this thread?

07-02-2011, 11:39 AM	#29 (permalink)
V8Killer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, NC Posts: 1,127 Drives: It Hard Till It Pops Rep Power: 16	Did wrapping the tubes help you any?

11-06-2011, 08:23 PM	#30 (permalink)
ValidusVentus Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 400 Drives: #18 Z34 Rep Power: 23	kind of a dead thread but Id be very interested to see what you came up with for your brake ducting Cotizi. I did one track day recently on stock brakes... not good. Edit: I do have new 2piece front and 1 piece rear slotted DBS rotors, Endless pads and fluid, and SS lines on the way but were delayed until after the track day. __________________ Mods: Dedicated caged track car, lots of things. \|\|\| Valkyrie Autosport \|\|\| Last edited by ValidusVentus; 11-06-2011 at 08:48 PM.

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