DIY: Oil Cooler (scratch built install, lottsa pics).....>.

Modshack · 03-08-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipsZ

Thank you both for your experience with this type of issue. I plan to get some pictures up in the next few days to show you guys what I am talking about. I too am worried as I purchased the GTM kit from Tardcore. However, the vendor replaced the suspect hose (with a much too long one at that). I need to confirm with Tardcore that he did not alter the lines, and that they were directly from the vendor .. that may give me a bit more piece of mind.

I think I would be concerned as well. Burst pressure on a correctly assembled Stainless socketed fitting is 1000psi. They shouldn't leak, and they shouldn't blow off. I suspect Tardcores's were pulled off due to no slack, but this may indicate a more serious problem with the hose assembly. If they are both leaking, both the old hose and the new, I would be doubly concerned. Until you can check them, I would keep my eyes glued to the oil pressure light. Correct assembly is outlined at the end of this .PDF:
http://97.74.103.94/files/bhose.pdf

These are re-usable fittings, so you may disassemble to check as mentioned above. It is critical that the hose goes all the way into the socket and is not pushed out when the nipple is tightened.

Billy830 · 03-08-2010, 05:40 PM

Those are the type of fittings that I would use not the fittings that are just push on with barbs and I believe that those are the fittings that people out there are having problems with not the type shown in the PDF you posted. Also at the end of the PDF it says to proof the fitting at twice the pressure and I am sure that the DIY people do not have the setup to do that. Just make the hose and slap it on. So here again I say have a shop put the fittings on, they have the equipment and will do a static pressure check of the lines for leaks. Just my opinion. Or you can purchase all the tools to do it your self correctly $$$$$$.

What did the oil filter commercial say " Pay me now or Pay me later" ?

Lets move on guys we are beating this one to death.

Modshack · 03-08-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy830

Those are the type of fittings that I would use not the fittings that are just push on with barbs and I believe that those are the fittings that people out there are having problems with not the type shown in the PDF you posted.

Lets move on guys we are beating this one to death.

Both types of fittings have failed. Both DIY and commercial kits.
We can move on anytime, but if the focus on correct installation prevents even one guy from toasting an $8,000 motor, the discussion is worth the time.....

Mike · 03-09-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

I think that was my point. The fact that both socketless rubber AND socketed stainless lines have come off would point to installation issues rather than random hardware failure.

While I am not ruling out installation or hose length as issues, I did have 3000 track miles on the setup last summer/fall and when I changed the oil a week before the line failed, everything was nice and secure. I would think if the hose was too short, it would have come off much earlier, and not during warmup laps.

Modshack · 03-09-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

While I am not ruling out installation or hose length as issues, I did have 3000 track miles on the setup last summer/fall and when I changed the oil a week before the line failed, everything was nice and secure. I would think if the hose was too short, it would have come off much earlier, and not during warmup laps.

I think yours was more of the constant in and out flex from the engine torquing Mike. I'm sure your install was up to speed. The hose stiffness undoubtedly contributes here even with some slack. 3000 track miles probably took their toll. (see the blow off analysis on the previous page)

Billy830 · 03-09-2010, 05:20 PM

For $7.50 each you can have crimped fittings put on hose of choice. Wether it be braided stainless or just high pressure rubber. Thats $30.00. Do the math, what pecentage of $8000 is $30.00. Please do the crimped fittings

If the crimped fittings blow off I will eat my shorts skid marks and all.
Now routing and clamping is another issue in its self. Ideally at the fitting ends no severe bends, not so loose that they move around, use anti chaffing clamps ( no tye wraps as they will quickly degrade over time and will loosen) maybe 6-8" apart along front.

I have not yet installed my cooler as I have other things in line right now. B&M short shifter, sway bars, 4 point and 2 point stiffeners and goodrige brake lines. Hope to have these done by this weekend and maybe the oil cooler next week. But I have to fit it in as we are building a 1989 944 twin turbo track only car. Body has been stripped and roll cage has been installed and has to go out for paint.

Modshack · 03-10-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

I think I would be concerned as well. Burst pressure on a correctly assembled Stainless socketed fitting is 1000psi. They shouldn't leak, and they shouldn't blow off. I suspect Tardcores's were pulled off due to no slack, but this may indicate a more serious problem with the hose assembly. If they are both leaking, both the old hose and the new, I would be doubly concerned. Until you can check them, I would keep my eyes glued to the oil pressure light. Correct assembly is outlined at the end of this .PDF:
http://97.74.103.94/files/bhose.pdf

These are re-usable fittings, so you may disassemble to check as mentioned above. It is critical that the hose goes all the way into the socket and is not pushed out when the nipple is tightened.

Well...we thought we had One mystery solved. It appears the stainless hose failure (twice) was the result of bad assembly. Vendor points fingers and Buyer denies it... Who knows what really happened other than teh AN fitting(s) were improperly assembled. One less thing for some of you to worry about!... Details in this thread:
AN fitting movement / rotation on Oil Cooler Lines?

TipsZ · 03-10-2010, 10:41 AM

Thanks for the info Mod. I didn't do anything to the lines, and would not have bought a kit by which I would have been required to make the connections as well. The one saving grace was that the line blew in my garage, and not out on the street where it could have wreaked havoc. Though, I still need to clean up all that oil and within the engine bay .. so .. does anyone recommend a degreaser that I could possibly use on the under side of the engine to get all that oil off?

Modshack · 03-14-2010, 06:27 PM

Hose construction revisited

For those of you a little squeamish about the push on socketless fittings, the alternative for DIY would be the socketed style with either braided or stainless jacketed lines. These are virtually Bulletproof provided the ends are installed correctly and the routing follows the recommendations. Scroll to page 5 for hose end assembly instructions: http://97.74.103.94/files/bhose.pdf It is recommended you go with this set-up if you plan to do any tracking of your car where temps may be elevated, and engine movement on the mounts may be exaggerated...
Start with:

10' section of Aeroquipt Stainless AN10 hose AER-FBA1000-10 $75
(2) Mocal 90 degree fittings MOC-F90-10 @ 15.15 each $30.30
(2) Mocal straight AN10 connectors MOC-FS-10 @ $7.49 $14.98
Total $ 120.28

The finished product:

As discussed, allow for large radius bends in the fender well area so the hose ends aren't pulled/pushed as the engine torques on it's mounts. These hoses ended up being 48" and 64" Cut end to cut end:

Be sure to cover any potential areas of abrasion/contact with some cushioning. Stainless line is extremely abrasive and will eventually saw through anything it comes in contact with:

Keep them away from the Power steering hardlines:

General routing across the front of the car:

Engine side:

cab83_750 · 03-14-2010, 06:55 PM

Modshack,

Thanks for the follow-up. This will be great for future DIYers. Is this your new setup (i.e., braided lines)?

Thanks.

Modshack · 03-14-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab83_750

Modshack,

Thanks for the follow-up. This will be great for future DIYers. Is this your new setup (i.e., braided lines)?

Thanks.

No problem...I made some notes on page one as well..
I already had some stainless line and a few fittings, so decided to make this change to remove any possible question from the equation. Note though, that my original install was still perfect after 3500 miles, so the original design is not necessarily flawed....There are just install and usage variables that might impact the reliability..

jpit · 03-15-2010, 01:42 AM

I can't believe you left the legion of socketless users.

Billy830 · 03-18-2010, 10:46 AM

Modshack

Instead of using the larger hose over the braided line you could use a smaller diameter hose cut to the circumference of the holes, split the hose length wise and install over the hole edges, may make a cleaner look.
Just a suggestion.

Got my B&M short shifter and goodridge brake lines in. Big difference.
Have oil cooler and swaybars but have to make some time to get these done.

Modshack · 03-24-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy830

Modshack

Instead of using the larger hose over the braided line you could use a smaller diameter hose cut to the circumference of the holes, split the hose length wise and install over the hole edges, may make a cleaner look.
Just a suggestion.

The problem with that approach is that movement of the stainless line will saw away at the fabricated grommet. In my set-up the Hose buffers move with the lines so there is no potential abrasion....

Zsteve · 04-02-2010, 12:41 AM

Got the parts in today for this DIY, Hope the install goes well.

03-08-2010, 05:40 PM	#182 (permalink)
Billy830 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Port Saint Lucie Fl. Age: 78 Posts: 31 Drives: 370Z Mag Black 6sp m Rep Power: 16	Good post with the PDF Those are the type of fittings that I would use not the fittings that are just push on with barbs and I believe that those are the fittings that people out there are having problems with not the type shown in the PDF you posted. Also at the end of the PDF it says to proof the fitting at twice the pressure and I am sure that the DIY people do not have the setup to do that. Just make the hose and slap it on. So here again I say have a shop put the fittings on, they have the equipment and will do a static pressure check of the lines for leaks. Just my opinion. Or you can purchase all the tools to do it your self correctly $$$$$$. What did the oil filter commercial say " Pay me now or Pay me later" ? Lets move on guys we are beating this one to death.

03-09-2010, 05:20 PM	#186 (permalink)
Billy830 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Port Saint Lucie Fl. Age: 78 Posts: 31 Drives: 370Z Mag Black 6sp m Rep Power: 16	paralysis by analysis For $7.50 each you can have crimped fittings put on hose of choice. Wether it be braided stainless or just high pressure rubber. Thats $30.00. Do the math, what pecentage of $8000 is $30.00. Please do the crimped fittings If the crimped fittings blow off I will eat my shorts skid marks and all. Now routing and clamping is another issue in its self. Ideally at the fitting ends no severe bends, not so loose that they move around, use anti chaffing clamps ( no tye wraps as they will quickly degrade over time and will loosen) maybe 6-8" apart along front. I have not yet installed my cooler as I have other things in line right now. B&M short shifter, sway bars, 4 point and 2 point stiffeners and goodrige brake lines. Hope to have these done by this weekend and maybe the oil cooler next week. But I have to fit it in as we are building a 1989 944 twin turbo track only car. Body has been stripped and roll cage has been installed and has to go out for paint.

03-10-2010, 10:41 AM	#188 (permalink)
TipsZ Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithia, FL Age: 51 Posts: 552 Drives: 09 Nissan 370z CS M6 Rep Power: 186	Thanks for the info Mod. I didn't do anything to the lines, and would not have bought a kit by which I would have been required to make the connections as well. The one saving grace was that the line blew in my garage, and not out on the street where it could have wreaked havoc. Though, I still need to clean up all that oil and within the engine bay .. so .. does anyone recommend a degreaser that I could possibly use on the under side of the engine to get all that oil off? __________________ Dynojet 285 HP/245 TQ (pre CBE)// Agency Power CBE // GTM Test Pipes // JWT Pop Chargers // B&M Short Shifter // Eibach Springs // Powder-coated Akebono's // Powder-coated Strut Bar // Black Chromed 19" Rays // // Redline Designs Graphics TipsZ journal

03-14-2010, 06:27 PM	#189 (permalink)
Modshack A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greenville NC Posts: 2,883 Drives: 370Z Sport Rep Power: 976	Hose construction revisited For those of you a little squeamish about the push on socketless fittings, the alternative for DIY would be the socketed style with either braided or stainless jacketed lines. These are virtually Bulletproof provided the ends are installed correctly and the routing follows the recommendations. Scroll to page 5 for hose end assembly instructions: http://97.74.103.94/files/bhose.pdf It is recommended you go with this set-up if you plan to do any tracking of your car where temps may be elevated, and engine movement on the mounts may be exaggerated... Start with: 10' section of Aeroquipt Stainless AN10 hose AER-FBA1000-10 $75 (2) Mocal 90 degree fittings MOC-F90-10 @ 15.15 each $30.30 (2) Mocal straight AN10 connectors MOC-FS-10 @ $7.49 $14.98 Total $ 120.28 The finished product: As discussed, allow for large radius bends in the fender well area so the hose ends aren't pulled/pushed as the engine torques on it's mounts. These hoses ended up being 48" and 64" Cut end to cut end: Be sure to cover any potential areas of abrasion/contact with some cushioning. Stainless line is extremely abrasive and will eventually saw through anything it comes in contact with: Keep them away from the Power steering hardlines: General routing across the front of the car: Engine side: __________________ Steal my car! (SOLD)...Now Porsche Cayman S Oil Cooler DIY: Here! Last edited by Modshack; 04-07-2010 at 09:47 AM.

03-18-2010, 10:46 AM	#193 (permalink)
Billy830 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Port Saint Lucie Fl. Age: 78 Posts: 31 Drives: 370Z Mag Black 6sp m Rep Power: 16	Gromets for hose lines Modshack Instead of using the larger hose over the braided line you could use a smaller diameter hose cut to the circumference of the holes, split the hose length wise and install over the hole edges, may make a cleaner look. Just a suggestion. Got my B&M short shifter and goodridge brake lines in. Big difference. Have oil cooler and swaybars but have to make some time to get these done.

03-14-2010, 06:55 PM	#190 (permalink)
cab83_750 Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 887 Drives: 09 NISSAN 370Z Rep Power: 417	Modshack, Thanks for the follow-up. This will be great for future DIYers. Is this your new setup (i.e., braided lines)? Thanks.

03-15-2010, 01:42 AM	#192 (permalink)
jpit Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 440 Drives: 370Z Tour MT w/Spt Rep Power: 16	I can't believe you left the legion of socketless users.

04-02-2010, 12:41 AM	#195 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	Got the parts in today for this DIY, Hope the install goes well. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

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