market bs or really better
 

I was in chemical sales for a while and I know that product X can be sold under different names for supposedly different applications and that if you buy some specially product you will pay a lot more for the same thing.

With that in mind I am wondering about these high priced swirl removers and polishes and asking if they are really any better than the Turtle wax brand which is a lot cheaper. and for all I know may be the same exact thing.
I was thinking of cleaning up my car but adding all the polishing compounds they want you to buy and the stuff they sell you to spray on as you clay and so on .. the price begins to add up..and, for example, this clay lubricant may be no better than ordinary soap and water but they want something like $15 for a small bottle.

So my question is this.. I want quality but not a rip off and was wondering what the group thinks of Turtle wax products. I am sure they get a big discount on the chemicals they use in formulating their products and so they may be just as good for a lot less..or are they?
Thoughts? Anyone

you can tell by the smell. a lot of high quality stuff smells like natural things like weird flavors of food and beauty products and smells 'good'. lower quality stuff usually smells like chemicals.

check out the chemical guys. i love their products and very resonable on price.

and no soap and clay lube are very dif. the soap will errode the clay making it less effective.

the only off-the-shelf stuff i use is vRoom tire dressing applicators (sold at Target), Meguair's QD (as my clay lube), and Meguiar's HotShine tire dressing (in very small amount), Meguair's ScratchX (for minor blemishes).

there is a difference between off the shelf and enthusiasts stuff. i use mostly Griot's and Prima but im sure Adam's and the stuff phil sells over at detailersdomain are top notch too.

is wolfgang considered off the shelf or enthusiast stuff?

For the money involved in getting set up and the labor and time involved.. its almost easier to just pay someone to do it...provided they do it right.. which is always a problem!

I think one important thing to remember is the amount needed to do a car.

With the better stuff, a little bit goes a loooooong way, it stays on the car a lot longer and the results in looks and protection are far superior.

So in the long run, it's really not more expensive...

i dont use it.

There are very few companies that manufacture the base detailing product. Thus, quite a few companies get their base supplies from the same place and add their own private additives to their products. It's just like Keebler and Famous Amos Cookies. They both sell chocolate chip cookies that consist of flour, sugar and chocolate chips. However, their cookies taste different and have a different consistency. They may get their sugar, chocolate chips and flour from the same manufacturer, but you can taste the difference in both cookies as soon as you bite into them. The reason being is that each manufacturer has their own blend that they add to their base product. Detailing products are very similar.

Does that make one boutique products better than another? Maybe, maybe not but it definitely makes them different from one another. It also makes them different from a lot of the OTC products that you see. You have to spend time working with various products in order to appreciate what a boutique product offers. I like to use tools for an example.

If you worked on your car and the only thing you did was a occasional oil and filter change, then the tools that you buy at Harbor Freight would be ideal for you. However, if you were employed by a dealership that only maintained high end sports cars, then you may need to fill your tool box with Snap-On tools. It totally depends on the level of expertise that you are trying to reach and your dedication to your work.

If you really are not committed to obtaining and religiously maintaining a close to perfect finish, go OTC. Especially if you're trying to only spend 4 hours a month maintaining your car. If you are wanting a show room finish and are willing to put in the amount of time that it requires to do so, go boutique. The results will reflect the time you spend. There are many boutique products to choose from that will take you to "Shineville". From my personal experience, the only difference was the route I traveled to get there, product guarantees, customer service, price and shipping times. They all worked so that was not a concern, although some worked in a different way as to achieve the results that they offered. For me, that was sometimes a different way than what I desired.

One thing that all car care companies in America share at this time is clay. There is one company in America that has the patent on clay. There are various grits of clay but again, only one company makes it. Speaking strictly of consumer clay, the only difference in one company's clay compared to another is how much you get and the cost. Leaving grit out of the equation, all clay in America is the same.

Now over seas, the story is a little different. ;)

Ok where to start....

Most clay lubricant is basically quick detailer. You technically could use soap and water, but QD is relatively cheap, easy to obtain and doesn't leave as much residue behind (where as most soap and water combos will leave a film of sorts).

Please keep one thing in mind when looking at OTC (over the counter, purchased at auto stores and whatnot) products. They are designed for the ever day consumer and for the most part do not contain abrasives needed to remove any heavy swirling or marring. It's mostly for the manufacturer to cover their asses and to keep novices from ruining their paint. Most of these products contain fillers and oils that will fill in the swirls and make the paint appear to have been fixed (meaning you can get OK results by hand). However, once they go away, swirls come back. There are exceptions to this (one being Meguiars ultimate compound, even then it does not provide the same cut as M105 from their professional line up).

Also, most OTC waxes you buy contain cleaning agents. This means it can not be layered as it will strip the layer of wax/glaze below off.

On the other hand you have professional / enthusiasts type of products. These are generally geared towards, well professionals and enthusiasts. They can contain less fillers (I mean, most polishes by nature contain oils that can fill these scratches) and provide more "cut" to remove paint imperfections. The waxes/sealants do not contain cleaning agents and generally will last longer and provide better protection.

Being you mentioned the chemical sales, you are aware how a lot of products can be rebottled and sold. That is no different in the detailing world. A LOT of products that claim to be different are just rebranded versions of another. However, they do change color and scents based on what the manufacturer wants (research a company called four star, they provide quite a bit of polishes and waxes to be resold under another name).

The reason for this is obvious, most smaller companies can not afford to have their own chemists formulating products for them. Bigger companies (such as Meguiars) have the money to have chemists develop products specifically for them. That's why a lot of their pro line is used by most pro detailers.

Turtle wax falls into the OTC category and in general does not provide a product that you will ever see a detailer using.

It all boils down to what you like using. If you use turtle wax and don't have a problem with the results (as long as it looks good to you) then it's worth a shot. I personally have not looked at their products since I started detailing.

and with that, I will end my book.

You can't get wolfgang OTC, so it is geared more towards enthusiasts.

wat junkman said. :tup:

good to know.



junkman, i wish i knew that bit about clay like 3 days ago when i ordered some. I got this.

http://www.autogeek.net/ultra-poly-detailing-clay.html

my detailer said go with fine clay instead of medium since my paint is in very good shape and not heavily contaminated.

While this is true, the initial investment may be as much or a little more than having a talented professional take care of it for you, the amount of chemicals and the supplies you get with a kit will be more than enough to maintain your car for years - so to that end its actually a more financially reasonable proposition.

Comes down into whether you think detailing is fun or a hobby for you. If you're not into it, then I'd definitely say find a pro to do the work for you.

As far as OTC versus enthusiast or pro level products, generally there isn't much of a comparison. The stuff sold OTC anymore seems to be getting progressively watered down (the effect of bean counters in charge at the big name brand companies) there are a few gems out there on store shelves, but as a whole the enthusiast market gives you much better level products for your money.

yea thats how i view it. stocking up on all the right stuff (products/machinery/towels etc) costs about as much as 1 or 2 pro details, but then you are set from there. and you can find yourself detailing your other cars as well just for fun.