Tuners around GTA
 

hey everyone

looking for good dyno tuners who have experience with VQ 3.7 engine, not someone who have worked with other Nissan/Infiniti engines.

I got a tune through a tuner and results weren't that great though he tuned previous VQs.

Who was your tuner?
-Are you tuned with Uprev's, Osiris?
-What were the results?
-What were you expecting?

Post up the dyno and other relevant info.. perhaps others on here can help to diagnose the problem.

I have had both my z33's tuned at APH and I know for certain they have tuned g37's. They would be my first choice.

Also, you will not find any tuners who have only worked specifically on the 3.7 as it is still in its infancy, and I don't think it would be wise to rely on tuners who have only had 2 years experience.(But that's just me)

PM me if you want name of the tuner.

VQ 3.7 engine is fairly new but tuners shouldn't claim or exagerrate on stuff they cannot do and waste customers time n money, not all nissan engines are same.

I'll try APH, see how it goes.
Cobb tuned.

If you want help from the community, you should offer information freely.. (just sayin..;) )
-I see that this was tuned on a U2NDYNO with Cobb AP.. So I can pretty much guess who that is within the GTA. (or should I say outside the GTA..)

Your delta's seem to show some good increases in power between 5250 and 5750, it looks to be about 18-20 whp & ft/lbs were gained.. with smaller (but noticeable gains across the board..)
-what NA mods do you have installed?
-what were you thinking it would put down?

Edward and the guys @ APH are TOP NOTCH. I am certain they can fix the issues, if they are indeed related to your current tune.

GL!

I should add that Ed@APH has been a z owner since '04 and has gone through the gauntlet with it. He is currently running a built block TT setup (Installed and tuned @APH) which is putting down some impressive #'s for a reliable DD!
(yes he DD's 550+whp)

Note, that I am in no way affiliated with APH and have nothing to gain from recommending their services to others.... But when it comes down to meticulous workmanship and pride in all facets of their profession, they are tops in my book. Ask anyone who has had work completed at APH and you will hear the same, I am sure.

-Granted that after years of being like-minded enthusiasts and sharing a common love for the Z, we have developed a solid friendship and I would not hesitate to send others in their direction.

GL

18-20 whps and lb/ft????????????????????????
did I post the wrong graph. From what I see, the interval is set at 20 on both Y-axis. The gains are less than half of that, probably around 5 - 8 hp or lb/fts.

No its not APH I dealt with and you're pretty much on the dot about the location of the tuner, I rather not speak publicly but if you're interested and want to avoid my experience do ask me privately.
I'll check out APH and see what they do. VQ 3.7 is totally different machine than the previous VQ, so a tuner with tuning these engines is a must to get respectable gains across the powerband. Don't want a tuner acting suprised during tuning sessions.

IIRC Sasha @ SG Motorsports told me they tuned a few VQ37HR

OOps! My bad.. you are right, 5-8.. Not sure what i was looking at..:tup:
I do feel your frustrations, esp since the z34 should see more gains when tuned.
IIRC, APH should have experience with tuning the 3.7, and I would imagine with VVEL, it would take some experience to get a proper tune.

My advice would be to call them, discuss all of your concerns with them and see what they have to say. If anything, they will be straight up with you and won't sling any BS your way.

-I would def suggest you post up the final results. Good or Bad, you will be helping out the community greatly and I am sure many will be thankful.

GL MAN!

Negative Ghost Rider! -Don't think he wants to go there..

Sasha at SG tuned my VQ37VHR a few time
I was happy with the result but the gain are hard to get with these engines
no matter who tune it, the VVEL is a bitch.

^^this only helps my thinking in keep my 40th stock and just keep saving for R35 like I have been wanting to!

sucks that on such a nice engine setup we are getting very little gains even with all the bolt-ons!

^You will still see gains with simple bolt-on's... I/H/E, throw some TP's/HFC's, maybe pullies with a tune and you would still have more power.

There are decent gains to be made with the NA setup with some breather mods.
Even with the maps provided by Cobb, there is a difference in gains made but they'll most likely require a tune by an experienced tuner and that should result in little bit more.

Any power made won't be same as FI cars but even with NA setup this power is good enough for me.
APH has done around 30 tunes for this car so I'll pull the plug for the team soon, whereas the other tuner had 4.
Tuner makes a difference. There was one guy who had similar setup as mine, got 5 hp gains with Uprev, with further tuning he was able to get more.

Reality:

I talked to Brian at APH and will be seeing him this Saturday. After talking to him, he gives me the impression that gains are not guaranteed with tune, should I take the chance with him except that he has experience with tuning 30 vq 3.7 cars with Uprev only as compared to 4 with the other party ?
As per Brian, tuning is same as tuning a former VQ.

^I personally would go for another session to try and maximize the setups performance gains. I would not be satisfied knowing that I left gains on the table, when I could have simply unlocked them with a better tune/tuner..

Mind you, if cost is an issue or if you want to just let the z sleep and re-evaluate next season, you should definitely consider those as options. (maybe you will want FI, next year?)

Knowing the team@APH well, I can tell you that Brian is a very competent tuner. Also his explanation to you that gains are not a guarantee with another tune, just goes to show his experience with the Vq motor.

Q,
-Were you going to switch to Uprev's Osiris? or stay with the COBB AP?

GL!

Brian and I agreed to that if the tuning is not going anywhere after 2 hours then we can stop it, this way I wouldn't have to pay for 4 hours as needed for tuning.
I'll do a baseline on almost all maps from Cobb and the latest versions released by them seemed to make a difference with the butt dyno.
Stock style was kept same since the initial release, stage 1 - 2+ v1.03 seem to have gone thru few iterations. With my mods Stage 2 pulled stronger than 'Other tuner' map. All this talk that Stock style was better than other maps maybe on pre 1.03 versions.

I'm going to stick to Cobb for now as they're both almost same. Uprev is an option but it costs $800 just for the license with APH without cable. Its USD$500 with Uprev directly and that includes the cipher cable and three etunes, custom tune could be about $200 with this. With this option you can always switch back to Stock map like Cobb since you would've the cable and software to do it, of course has to be done through a laptop.

^nice:tup:

I hope things work out for the best! Keep us posted with the results!:tiphat:

Saw Brian at APH on Saturday and happy with the results so far.

We did baseline an 3 Cobb maps and the factory ecu on dynapack dyno. Off the Stock style, Stage 2 and Stage 2+, Stage 2 looked better to start with. Brian was hesitant to tune first but after looking at Stage 2, he said he can tune it little bit more.
I think the peak HP was around 9 hp but could be more if we had done some more pulls, there is power gained throughout the power band and torque has definitely gone up. Car definitely pulls stronger than before and better than the other tuner.
Brian is good tuner though he still thinks this VQ is same as before !!!.

I should ask money back from the tuner but he seems hesitant.

the last one I think is the comparision between base run and tuned.

P.S It has been 400 miles + and so far no SES.


Base run was done with Stillen Gen 3 intake, CNC HFC and Magnaflow CBE. No base run with stock only.

^Glad to hear!!! you are putting out some good #'s man!
-I totally agree that Brian is a Solid Tuner.. :tup:

Forget about the "other tuner", it wouldn't be worth the headaches to argue.. If they were willing to work something out with you, then by all means pursue it... But if they are hesitant, I would just walk away knowing that you won't be making the same mistake, again.
Simply take it upon yourself to provide insight to others when asked about your experiences with either shop.. (Good and Bad)

I have said it before and will say it again.. You won't be disappointed taking your Z/G/GTR to APH.

and for those in the GTA that don't know..

TUNING & DYNO - Advance Power House & Dyno

Thanks Reality.

You're right about taking it for the VQ community. Ppl, my first tuning experience with Sasha at SG Motorsports wasn't that great, he's still learning so do your homework before seeing him. I would definitely ask him lot of questions and get some sort of guarantee on his projected gains.

Brian at APH was experienced and this was shown at my second tuning. He did a conservative tune but still got good gains. So far no CEL/SES light, no knocking and he did make sure there wasn't any.
I've spoken to other tunes around GTA, Magnus Motorsports wanted $800 for a tune !!!!!!!! They didn't promise any gains, not sure what I would be paying for.

Looking at the dyno, car had power to be made beyond 7300 rpms except Brian didn't want to push it that far. And props to Cobb, they do have a decent product out and support.

Guys, forgive me.

Normally I wouldn't post but I feel my side of the story must be made known here.

First of all, it seems the gains Brian and I made were about the same. Plus or minus the 1-2% variation that a chassis dyno will normally have (MUCH more considering VVEL, an automatic transmission and more)

For you Paul, to say that the car pulls harder and stronger, I don't doubt being true. It's 0 degrees now, rather than 10 degrees when we did your tune. That works out to about 10whp! Your butt dyno is surely feeling that.

I want to note that while we don't deal with COBB very much, we still yielded the same gains, and produced the same power at the end.

Now I don't mean to bash Brian or APH, I love those guys, but if you look at the dyno graphs from Brian you'll notice they show the engine revving to 7300rpm and the torque being 20lb-ft less than my graph. You'll also notice the horsepower is at it's peak at the end of the pull, whereas in my graph the horsepower noses over.

This is because the Gear ratio was setup incorrectly on Brian's dyno. Paul, you may remember at the start of your session I spent approximately 30 minutes loading the car up and doing small pulls and checking the data logs with the Dyno to calibrate the gear ratio. Infact - I did 6 pulls before I had it spot on. The actual gear ratio I found was 3.836. In this dyno you've posted, the gear ratio is set to 4.1995. On this tune you got - again no offense to Brian or the guys at APH, the engine was actually only revving to approximately 6600 rpm.

All this means is that if the gear ratio was setup correctly, the power figures would have been displayed differently. The dynapack reads horespower, and calculates torque, which is why the horsepower is relatively the same, but the torque is low (the dyno thought you were spinning the engine much faster). In reality, if the pull kept going to the peak rpm, you would have made even more power on that dyno! Which is about right, since it seems that APH's dyno reads a bit higher than ours from what i've been told.

I'm sorry that you found your experience at SG a negative one. I feel we did everything correctly and gave you no reason to be unhappy. We produced power gains - although not as large as I had hoped, or had typically seen, there were gains none the less. As I said to you in person, and will say online (now that you've turned this into a public issue), I sent you nothing more than an expectation of what I normally see, not a guarantee. It seems Brian did not guarantee anything either. My exact words as quoted from my email were:

"That power sounds outrageously high! Most AT 3.7’s dyno around 270~ on our dyno, so don’t be disappointed if that includes your car! I expect we should still be able to find 10-12 whp in tuning though.

Thanks Paul,"

And in your tune, we found approximately 8-9whp outside of peak, and 4-5whp at peak. Now peak power is not where you spend most of your time - 4500rpm - 6000rpm is. We found horsepower here. If we refunded money when we didn't mean our average, that would mean we would have to charge more when we exceeded our expectation. That wouldn't be fair either, would it?

I also mentioned to you that your car came in running quite well, already running at 12.5:1 AFRs, not nearly as rich as most Nissans come in. You mentioned that tuning these engines was significantly different, which I denied - mentioning that only fuel and ignition could be changed with the cobb. Ignition is done just the same as all VQs, not in degrees of advance, but in time before peak cylinder pressure. These are concepts both Brian and I understand very well, and whether he's tuned 4 or 30 cars, I'm sure we'll agree about almost all of tuning methods. There is no black magic to tuning, as it seems you have been led to believe there is. I'm sorry.

As I said before, I'm sorry your car did not make more power, and I'm sorry you felt the need to go out of you way to re-establish what I told you, by making essentially the exact same power you left SG with.

I'm most sorry however, that your own lack of understanding caused you to slander the name I work so hard to make great. That you went and got your car tuned somewhere else, thinking they were better than us, when at first glance of the dyno sheet I can spot a problem. None of us are perfect. Look at me - I forgot your battery cover! The point is, you need to trust your tuner. If my name and the things I have achieved (like having the highest horsepower stock displacement NA 350z in North America) is not enough for you to trust, then I would have rathered not have your business in the first place.

And Reality, I thought I had earned more of your respect than to see you doubting me so quickly, and convincing our customers to leave us. I have more respect for APH customers than to convince them to leave Ed and his team. I understand how hard they work for their customers, and would rather find my own new customers. I do envy how loyal you are to APH though...

I support SG :tup:

I do have respect to any Tuning shop like SG ,APH.
I have no doubt of both tuner even if APH seem to have done a mistake while setting up the dyno as shown on the dyno sheet provided by Draper.

I have visited both shop and quickly stayed with SG.
After I learned about them and saw their work in the racing world , yeah I am positive that I did a good choice , is he the best ? until someone show me another shop , I have no reason of leaving !

Yeah i also got similar result that APH and SG got on Draper's G37 of course I want the best power but peak power isn't everything.

Hey Sasha
Suprised to see you chime in, I should've brought your name out earlier but didn't want to and wanted to share my experiences with the community, though I might not be the first guy who have had mixed reactions with your tuning.
I do have respect and utmost that is for your knowledge and experience with the 3.5VQ and as I mentioned not sure about the 3.7 VQ, you've mentioned that you had tuned about 5 including mine and Brian had tuned more than 30 and what I'm gathering is that experience does count in tuning. And on top of that I've showed up at your doorstep without asking much at least with your experience with Cobb. And it was not till I got back home and spoke to few ppl that I realized the tune numbers could've been better but I was a fool not ask why it wasn't like 10 -15 hp as you mentioned. Why would I make a 4 hour trip for a mere 5hp gain, as someone said I could possibly get that by making ahole in the exhaust :rolleyes:

Regardless, dyno's are different and the numbers I see on yours might not be same on APH's but I was comparing the differences both the tunes have made from base run and you could clearly see how different it is they both are. Brian's clearly shows close to 10 whp and I cannot see more than 5 in yours, i.e. not even at peak or anywhere low to mid. Torque numbers are great in Brian's and they're minor in yours. And again, this is not a post to bash you or damage your reputation, you might have the experience but it seems to be limited to the previous engine. And I'm not making up any numbers, the dyno's though different speak for themselves. My butt dyno also felt different, the car definitely pulled harder and stronger on 401 on the way back home with APH tune especially throughout the mid range and knock on the wood no CEL/SES light. After getting tuned from you, I noticed car was bit slower in the lower-mid range, it did pull above 6000 rpm and the CEL/SES light was on two hours after the tune.

I still have your map and I can do a dyno run to compare the gains on both the maps, of course someone has to volunteer their dyno for this.

As I mentioned Sasha, I came to you even though I knew about APH and others just because of word of mouth, ppl talk on forums, etc and I'm only sharing what I've experienced as others can do much more homework than me or make better choices in getting more power from their car as this is the whole game. I'm sure your next tune and even if you were to tune mine, it would be better and different but to convince you on that would be something.
I hope you can be upfront about your numbers or tuning experience on any particular car because they're all different, 370z is different from g37 because one's a 7 speed automatic and the other is 5 speed. Other tuners have gained good gains on Cobb, so they must be doing something different.
Though you had to pay for your dyno rentals, I paid to get some good results and not what came through your tuning.

hopefully no hard feelings.

the VQ37vhr might be a whole new engine but you cant do much when you can only adjust the ignition timing and AFR ,,,

to begin with you had your car at 12.5afr which is within the sweet spot and the gain is quite limited .
there is a difference in power that can be felt in a 10 degree difference ... i remember having 282 whps at one point on the dyno then come back at a later date to only have 273 ( i was pissed but understood the weather has a big effect on power)

after looking at your dyno sheet .. and the result isn't that great than you think they are. the big number is way more appealing to your eyes than what it really is

look at the graph in his whole

picture 1 *Base*; average
3000 rpm = 129 whp
4000 rpm = 163 whp
5000 rpm = 208 whp
6000 rpm = 241 whp
6800 rpm = 257 whp (reference peak power on SG tuned map)
7000 rpm = 266 whp
7300 rpm = 268 whp

Picture 5 *aphtuned*
3000 rpm = 126 whp
4000 rpm = 167 whp
5000 rpm = 209 whp
6000 rpm = 247 whp
6800 rpm = 264 whp (reference peak power on SG tuned map)
7000 rpm = 270 whp
7300 rpm = 280 whp

total gain from the Base dyno and the APH tuned map
3000 rpm = - 3whp
4000 rpm = +4 whp
5000 rpm = +1 whp
6000 rpm = +6 whp
6800 rpm = +7 whp (reference peak power on SG Tuned map)
7000 rpm = +4 whp
7300 rpm = +12 whp

OK what is good to have a Peak power for the last 300rpm ? of + 8whp from the 7000rpm ... your just having a very small gain in a fraction of sec ..
while the big fast gain is in the middle to high power range ,,, the result I see from the APH is not that good and couldn't do much better than Sasha did

just look at his dyno sheet that you provided in one of your post

Sasha @ Sg-MotorsportBase dyno
3000 rpm = 138
4000 rpm = 181
5000 rpm = 223
6000 rpm = 257
6804 rpm = 283.2
7000 rpm = cant be counted because graph nose down (guessing 275whp)

tuned Map
3000 rpm = 138
4000 rpm = 185
5000 rpm = 228
6000 rpm = 262
6804 rpm = 288.5 (Peak power)
7000 rpm = cant be counted because graph nose up (guessing 280 whp)

Total gain
3000 rpm = +0 whp
4000 rpm = +4 whp
5000 rpm = +5 whp
6000 rpm = +5 whp
6804 rpm = +5.3 whp (peak power)
7000 rpm = +5 whp (result if the graph would have continued from what it was doing)

Winner gain
3000 rpm = APH -3 whp SG +0whp
4000 rpm =APH +4 whp SG +4whp
5000 rpm =APH +1 whp SG +5whp
6000 rpm =APH +6 whp SG +5whp
6804 rpm = APH +7whp SG +5.3whp
7000 rpm =APH +4 SG +5


Conclusion ; SG tuned map is better suited for racing.
APH did provide a very small gain over Sasha tune over 6000 rpm,,,
since Sasha's Dyno read a little bit lower than APH dyno , we can say the winner is really Sasha @ SG-Motorsport

if you cant read number but just peak power ,, well continue thinking like that as Me and Sasha will pass you on the road course.


There is no black magic to be done with the VQ37 you only have ignition timing and AFR ..


and from what I understand on the mistake APH did on the dyno with your car which has an influence on the gain you see.
why ?
The Dyno read Horsepower = speed of acceleration. since the dyno think you have a shorter gear , it thinks that you are spinning faster in the same amount of time that the tuner set (6-12 sec acceleration) which means higher HP
since you got some gain with the APH but in reality they are lower than you think...
who do you trust now ?

OP, sorry for the OT.. I just wanted to address something.

@SGSash
-My intent here was not to throw you or SG under the bus, and I apologize if my words came out in that manner. I would never intentionally try to slander and/or diminish what you have been building for the past 3 years nor would I go out of my way to "sway" customers away from your shop.
I have always and will always provide personal insight into my dealings with all shops, Good or Bad. I can only hope that my opinions & experiences will help others to make educated decisions.
-When you first jumped into the VQ world (on the other site), I was one of the very fist local members to voice myself when others (In the US) were raising the BS flag on your claims and your aspirations. Hell I even went to your "Grand Opening" bbq to show my support... (first and only time we met and had a conversation..)

We may not be personal acquaintances, but you have my utmost respect in this community for your ground breaking achievements & accomplishments with your NA 3.5VQ. Without a doubt, you have proven what is possible with the NA z33.

All said, I hope you can understand that this is not personal....

@Megan370z
The important part here is that the OP is happy with the results.

Ok
I have no problem with that but as I said , if guys like him prefer to have a peak gain that wont be that useful and less effective , good for him ! :tiphat:
unless you have a transmission with a very very close ratio to stay all the time on the top end .

This is why I like SG because they are more into the racing world than trying to show big number .

since the dyno wasn't setup properly at APH (mistake, I'm sure) the gain are bigger than what they really should , this is what Ive been trying to explain.


I'm going back on Sasha dyno next week to test my DIY Swapped 350z HR intake manifold (M370 of Motordyne)
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...take-swap.html
If Sasha has some time to spare at the end of our test , I will ask him to play with the gearing ratio on his dyno , just to show the difference it will provide , recorded on video ! (Youtube)
a pull with the right gear ratio and then a pull with a shorter gear ratio like Draper had on APH dyno.

I think you do have a problem with this, as concluded by your post. If the OP is happy with his tune then why incite this "challenge"..
-Are you out to prove SG provided the better tune? Even though this isn't your car and have never driven it before? and Even though the OP states that he is much happier?
(Uphill battle?)
Maybe trying to :stirthepot: and cause a clash between two shops? You sure you have that much clout at SGM?
Or could it be that your own insecurities regarding your setup are somehow necessitating the need to prove "your" choice was the correct one?:icon14:
-Are you going to post up (YOUTUBE) videos, regardless of the outcome?

From the outside looking in, it seems like you have much to prove.. I just hope things work out in your favor..

@ Reality , you are going a bit far .

are the number lying ?
not really

how can you explain them ?
yes both Tuner (APH & SG) did something each other didn't provide
I'm not bashing APH because they made the peak power better than SG
which APH had their dyno set incorrectly.


What the number show is those Draper's picture is what Ive been explaining

Do I say Sasha tune is the best , I would say they are pretty close but in a racing world , yes I would take his . what matter are number and Where they are.


proving my insecurity ?
what are you talking about. look at the number for both and do a comparison APH got on their dyno and what SG got on their dyno
then just compare them together
numbers aren't lying

I have nothing to hide and you , trying to put me down , well i do not care but result are result, if you blind yourself to convince that you are right,,, go ahead.

oh and yes , I will do and put on Youtube the result , NO MATTER WHAT the result is.


THe video wont be cut and asesmbled together
Just 2 pull back to back but with a different gear ratio



on a side note , how to tell if a dyno sheet is a good one ,
- all machine generated dyno sheets will always cross at 5252 rpm no matter what because they are all either calculting torque or horsepower using the same exact formula. If it doesn't cross at 5252 rpm, it does not mean it wasn't a "good run", it means the sheet you are being shown is a total fake or the dyno is not setup properly.

@Megan370z
It really seems like you are going off on a tangent and I find it hard to understand what you are trying to convey.

Why do you keep bringing up this "Racing world"..
-are you a racer? Is the OP a racer?
-What does tuning for the street use have to do with the racing world?
-Are you running a race tune? (with an automatic??)

And I will ask you again..
-If the OP is happy with the results, why are your panties in such a knot?

I guess we will see soon enough, exactly what you are out to prove..

Am I a racer ? my answer is = im a wanna be ! and yes I went on the track with my 350z roadster with the whole body kit and no power mod but i was passing people with a better setup than me.
same with the 370z this year.

tuning for street or racing ? or even is the OP a racer ?
well ok the OP prefer to have gained some minimal gain at between 7000-7300rpm on the dyno sheet and is very happy with it ... i would be mucher happy to have the middle-higher powerband that being superior in the last 300rpm

does I have a race tune you say ? with an automatic ?
go ahead and start that debat on manual vs auto !! haha
yes my 370z is an auto my 350z was a 6mt

yeah my 370z is going to be more and more a track car than going on the street
so who care ... only me thanks

That's what I thought..
-So you were passing modded z33's in your OEM-NA form? and you were doing to same to modded z34's!?... Obviously you are the better driver:rolleyes:


There is no debate.. Those who can, MT.. Those who can't, AT... Its quite simple


Congrats, you are the first owner that I know of who purchased an AT so he could track more.
-And you are right, nobody cares about your setup.

^I am not sure if you missed this the first couple of times, but you never did answer...

hahah you make laugh soo hard man !

you are aren't happy that I bash at APH because you love them soo much that now you are you doing some personal attack just to try to discredit what Ive been saying

good job kid , your just lowering yourself


if APH didn't screwed up their dyno setup in the first place , I'm sure we wouldn't have got that discussion
:ugh2:
clap clap to APH !

the graph shown that he was reving to 7300 rpm which in facts is false , he was around 6500-6600 rpm ,, because of the screwed up gear ratio
APH did NOT even tune the higher top end , the last 1000 rpm which the engine could be knocking !!!:owned: , if they did , its not on the graph
Clap clap to your perfect APH shop and his fan !




all of that because some guy cant see clearly the actual number and the performance relied to it.

stay in your world of the peak HP , :bowrofl:

:tup: yup the z33 part in true as for the z34 part in 2010 i was even faster , thanks

yeah yeah yeah what you said isn't that true ,, but only in your own head,, how come the auto transmission are getting more and more into the racing ? that are out performing the manual ? get out of your town and look what is happening in the world .

I pretty much totally agree with you , no body care about my setup , it just gonna be more secret , as for tracking more with an AT ,, you got me wrong ,
the car is going to be a track car only in the future ,, having the AT to track more ? lol not really , can you read ?

I do not care if he like it or not ,
What I care is the result provided . he like it ? good for him .
we are in a free country man and we are aloud to have our own opinion.

Hey guys just take it easy. We're all VQ brothers around here and helping out each other. Megan, I like Sasha and shouldn't have come hard on him but wasn't happy definitely with his tune. That said I want to leave it like that and wouldn't want to drag this on for any reason.
I had a reason that the tune with APH was different than with Sasha's, I'm sure my butt dyno didn't let me down in comparing those two. :)
That being said and since you spent so much time analyzing the graphs, I said let me look at those again and there must be a reason why my butt sensor feels sensitive to these two tunes.

Here's what I found


HP
RPM Base APH Diff

3000 124 128 4

4000 165.6 170 4.4

5000 210 210 0

6000 242 252 10

7000 268 275 7

7300 274 284 10

6800 260 273 13

5400 220 230 10





Torque
RPM Base APH Diff

3000 217.5 222.5 5

4000 216 222.5 6.5

5000 219 221 2

6000 208 220 12

7000 202 207 5

7300 197 204 7

6800 202 210 8

5400 213 222.5 9.5

4700 215 225 10

2500 225 235 10



HP
RPM Base SG Diff

3000 135 135 0

4000 183 187 4

5000 224 228 4

6000 255 262 7

6800 284 288 4

5750 258 260 2

5500 244 250 6



Torque
RPM Base SG Diff

3000 0 0 0

4000 238 245 7

5000 235 240 5

6000 225 230 5

6800 218 225 7

5750 230 237.5 7.5

5500 232 238 6

5250 233 240 7

Though gear ratios are different but Megan you used the numbers to prove both the tunes were same or that Sasha's was better. Take a look at the dyno graphs again that I've attached, I had marked some mid points to get some approximate numbers, sorry if I'm off I tried my best. The torque does show nice improvement with APH and thats where my butt dyno picks it up.

APH or Brian do not know anything about my tune with Sasha and I would appreciate if they're do not know and I don't feel any reason they should.

Megan, I understand your frustration and you're making more harm than good especially for Sasha. You seemed to have purchased M370 recently and am sure you would've done your homework with it prior buying it, ppl have had different results with that.

Next time I'm in T.O, we'll go for a run and see who's faster. :driving:


cheers.

Draper ,
what we have been discussing is APH didnt setup the dyno properly and the result of the gain are slighty affected by this.

you cant compare the graph of those 2 dyno together
because 1 has the correct setting (SG)
and the other 1 has incorrect value (APH)
you can only do an average of the gain with one and check the average gain with the other one ,, you cant just say hey I had 300 hp with his but 260 with the other one.

even that ,, there is no Dyno that read the same
APH is known to read higher than SGM one...
but on this one since the gear ratio isnt correctly set ,
it throw everything off ...



in conclusion ,, IF i was you . I would have 2 choices
either chose to go back to APH or SGM and get a few proper pulls with every tune
and make sure this time that the dyno is set correctly and get tuned on the top end since the tuner didnt rev the engine to redline ,,, he didnt even go into your peak power since he stoped around 6500-6000 rpm .. the 7300 rpm you see on the APH dyno sheet is the result of the incorrect value in the gearing ratio


that way you are looking to see which one is the best one...





look as an example when first I went to SGM for a tuning , yeah I was like you , mixed feeling with the gain , so later on I did some street tuning and being VERY aggressive with the ignition timing and afr ... then I went back to SGM to see 4 different map and see where we can borrow the best of everything ,

put everything together , we managed to get gain everywhere
2 of my street tuned map were having knock , we corrected it and made more power.

Megan again, please look at the delta/differences in power i.e. from APH tune to Base
and Sasha to Base.
Regardless of gear ratio or different dynos, it is obvious there seem to be higher numbers (more than 1 - 2% ) throughout the power band and better than Sasha.

I didn't know you went back to Sasha to get a proper tune as you were not happy with the first one, I was in the same boat as you were and had to go to APH to get a proper tune. Sasha didn't want to try again, I gave him other options as well which were fair to both of us but he didn't want to go ahead. So I said 'oh well'.

Brian at APH made sure I didn't have any knock after the tune, and as I mentioned before no CEL/SES light till now which says a lot about the tuner. One usually gets this light if the AFR numbers are off and that throws off other stuff. It happened to me right after i got the tune from Sasha.

May I ask what was the gains you made from first tune to the latest one from Sasha?

Draper ,
those 2 picture you just shown is one of APH and SGM , thats ok

You said in your post when you posted the first time that this one was 1 pull from the base pull and then a pull with the APH tuned one

ofcourse you will have the big gain from the base tune...

and the one on SGM was with Sasha tuned map and your Cobb map which is already tuned from them,,
since you came in his shop with an afr 12,5

from the factory the 370z run lean ,, not rich like that , you even have breather mod and exhaust ,, if you wasn't tuned when you went to SGM ,, you would have been in the 14.x AFR

then the big gain would have shown like APH in his graph

on a side note ..
no I did not bought the M370 from MotorDyne

I bought an used 350z HR intake manifold with both Throttle body for my projet
Since someone showed the picture of their M370 . i took advantage of it and Did the modification myself , I dont see myself buying the same item for 900 $ when I bought it for 100$