Tuners around GTA

Megan370z

the VQ37vhr might be a whole new engine but you cant do much when you can only adjust the ignition timing and AFR ,,,

to begin with you had your car at 12.5afr which is within the sweet spot and the gain is quite limited .
there is a difference in power that can be felt in a 10 degree difference ... i remember having 282 whps at one point on the dyno then come back at a later date to only have 273 ( i was pissed but understood the weather has a big effect on power)

after looking at your dyno sheet .. and the result isn't that great than you think they are. the big number is way more appealing to your eyes than what it really is

look at the graph in his whole

picture 1 *Base*; average
3000 rpm = 129 whp
4000 rpm = 163 whp
5000 rpm = 208 whp
6000 rpm = 241 whp
6800 rpm = 257 whp (reference peak power on SG tuned map)
7000 rpm = 266 whp
7300 rpm = 268 whp

Picture 5 *aphtuned*
3000 rpm = 126 whp
4000 rpm = 167 whp
5000 rpm = 209 whp
6000 rpm = 247 whp
6800 rpm = 264 whp (reference peak power on SG tuned map)
7000 rpm = 270 whp
7300 rpm = 280 whp

total gain from the Base dyno and the APH tuned map
3000 rpm = - 3whp
4000 rpm = +4 whp
5000 rpm = +1 whp
6000 rpm = +6 whp
6800 rpm = +7 whp (reference peak power on SG Tuned map)
7000 rpm = +4 whp
7300 rpm = +12 whp

OK what is good to have a Peak power for the last 300rpm ? of + 8whp from the 7000rpm ... your just having a very small gain in a fraction of sec ..
while the big fast gain is in the middle to high power range ,,, the result I see from the APH is not that good and couldn't do much better than Sasha did

just look at his dyno sheet that you provided in one of your post

Sasha @ Sg-MotorsportBase dyno
3000 rpm = 138
4000 rpm = 181
5000 rpm = 223
6000 rpm = 257
6804 rpm = 283.2
7000 rpm = cant be counted because graph nose down (guessing 275whp)

tuned Map
3000 rpm = 138
4000 rpm = 185
5000 rpm = 228
6000 rpm = 262
6804 rpm = 288.5 (Peak power)
7000 rpm = cant be counted because graph nose up (guessing 280 whp)

Total gain
3000 rpm = +0 whp
4000 rpm = +4 whp
5000 rpm = +5 whp
6000 rpm = +5 whp
6804 rpm = +5.3 whp (peak power)
7000 rpm = +5 whp (result if the graph would have continued from what it was doing)

Winner gain
3000 rpm = APH -3 whp SG +0whp
4000 rpm =APH +4 whp SG +4whp
5000 rpm =APH +1 whp SG +5whp
6000 rpm =APH +6 whp SG +5whp
6804 rpm = APH +7whp SG +5.3whp
7000 rpm =APH +4 SG +5


Conclusion ; SG tuned map is better suited for racing.
APH did provide a very small gain over Sasha tune over 6000 rpm,,,
since Sasha's Dyno read a little bit lower than APH dyno , we can say the winner is really Sasha @ SG-Motorsport

if you cant read number but just peak power ,, well continue thinking like that as Me and Sasha will pass you on the road course.


There is no black magic to be done with the VQ37 you only have ignition timing and AFR ..


and from what I understand on the mistake APH did on the dyno with your car which has an influence on the gain you see.
why ?
The Dyno read Horsepower = speed of acceleration. since the dyno think you have a shorter gear , it thinks that you are spinning faster in the same amount of time that the tuner set (6-12 sec acceleration) which means higher HP
since you got some gain with the APH but in reality they are lower than you think...
who do you trust now ?

Reality

OP, sorry for the OT.. I just wanted to address something.

@SGSash
-My intent here was not to throw you or SG under the bus, and I apologize if my words came out in that manner. I would never intentionally try to slander and/or diminish what you have been building for the past 3 years nor would I go out of my way to "sway" customers away from your shop.
I have always and will always provide personal insight into my dealings with all shops, Good or Bad. I can only hope that my opinions & experiences will help others to make educated decisions.
-When you first jumped into the VQ world (on the other site), I was one of the very fist local members to voice myself when others (In the US) were raising the BS flag on your claims and your aspirations. Hell I even went to your "Grand Opening" bbq to show my support... (first and only time we met and had a conversation..)

We may not be personal acquaintances, but you have my utmost respect in this community for your ground breaking achievements & accomplishments with your NA 3.5VQ. Without a doubt, you have proven what is possible with the NA z33.

All said, I hope you can understand that this is not personal....

__________________
//2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD
//2006 GT PPW SOLD

Reality

@Megan370z
The important part here is that the OP is happy with the results.

__________________
//2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD
//2006 GT PPW SOLD

Megan370z

Ok
I have no problem with that but as I said , if guys like him prefer to have a peak gain that wont be that useful and less effective , good for him !
unless you have a transmission with a very very close ratio to stay all the time on the top end .

This is why I like SG because they are more into the racing world than trying to show big number .

since the dyno wasn't setup properly at APH (mistake, I'm sure) the gain are bigger than what they really should , this is what Ive been trying to explain.


I'm going back on Sasha dyno next week to test my DIY Swapped 350z HR intake manifold (M370 of Motordyne)
DIY 350zHR Intake Swap
If Sasha has some time to spare at the end of our test , I will ask him to play with the gearing ratio on his dyno , just to show the difference it will provide , recorded on video ! (Youtube)
a pull with the right gear ratio and then a pull with a shorter gear ratio like Draper had on APH dyno.

Reality

I think you do have a problem with this, as concluded by your post. If the OP is happy with his tune then why incite this "challenge"..
-Are you out to prove SG provided the better tune? Even though this isn't your car and have never driven it before? and Even though the OP states that he is much happier?
(Uphill battle?)
Maybe trying to and cause a clash between two shops? You sure you have that much clout at SGM?
Or could it be that your own insecurities regarding your setup are somehow necessitating the need to prove "your" choice was the correct one?
-Are you going to post up (YOUTUBE) videos, regardless of the outcome?

From the outside looking in, it seems like you have much to prove.. I just hope things work out in your favor..

__________________
//2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD
//2006 GT PPW SOLD

Megan370z

@ Reality , you are going a bit far .

are the number lying ?
not really

how can you explain them ?
yes both Tuner (APH & SG) did something each other didn't provide
I'm not bashing APH because they made the peak power better than SG
which APH had their dyno set incorrectly.


What the number show is those Draper's picture is what Ive been explaining

Do I say Sasha tune is the best , I would say they are pretty close but in a racing world , yes I would take his . what matter are number and Where they are.


proving my insecurity ?
what are you talking about. look at the number for both and do a comparison APH got on their dyno and what SG got on their dyno
then just compare them together
numbers aren't lying

I have nothing to hide and you , trying to put me down , well i do not care but result are result, if you blind yourself to convince that you are right,,, go ahead.

Megan370z

oh and yes , I will do and put on Youtube the result , NO MATTER WHAT the result is.


THe video wont be cut and asesmbled together
Just 2 pull back to back but with a different gear ratio



on a side note , how to tell if a dyno sheet is a good one ,
- all machine generated dyno sheets will always cross at 5252 rpm no matter what because they are all either calculting torque or horsepower using the same exact formula. If it doesn't cross at 5252 rpm, it does not mean it wasn't a "good run", it means the sheet you are being shown is a total fake or the dyno is not setup properly.

Reality

@Megan370z
It really seems like you are going off on a tangent and I find it hard to understand what you are trying to convey.

Why do you keep bringing up this "Racing world"..
-are you a racer? Is the OP a racer?
-What does tuning for the street use have to do with the racing world?
-Are you running a race tune? (with an automatic??)

And I will ask you again..
-If the OP is happy with the results, why are your panties in such a knot?

I guess we will see soon enough, exactly what you are out to prove..

__________________
//2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD
//2006 GT PPW SOLD