First Problem With my 370Z

Coon-azz · 04-03-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Yeah, if it's cementite formation, it actually alters the metal of the rotor... simply turning them down a few thousandths to re-surface them won't really suffice. You have to take off a LOT of material to get rid of it, usually resulting in the rotor being out of spec.

I would just get the cheapest rotors you can find and pair them with the most aggressive Carbotech or CL pad you can stomach and call it a day.

Why do you choose these pads over others? I'm asking because it seems there was some testing here on your part...which is worth a lot of time and $.

Sh0velMan · 04-03-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coon-azz

Why do you choose these pads over others? I'm asking because it seems there was some testing here on your part...which is worth a lot of time and $.

They are non-transfer pads. Not possible to create cementite with a non transfer pad.

You can still WARP them, but it's a helluva lot harder to WARP a rotor than most people think. Almost always involves heavy braking a followed by a temperature shock, like racing to the car wash and immediately dousing the entire rotor in water. lol (Rainwater won't do this, as it'll be constantly sprayed, not nearly-submerged instantly like in a car wash scenario)

sig11 · 04-03-2013, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

They are non-transfer pads. Not possible to create cementite with a non transfer pad.

Carbotech pads do require bedding/create a transfer layer!

Sh0velMan · 04-03-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11

Carbotech pads do require bedding/create a transfer layer!

o rly.

Well then scratch that.

RC5+ or RC6 from CL then.

Coon-azz · 04-03-2013, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

o rly.

Well then scratch that.

RC5+ or RC6 from CL then.

ok...researching...thanks

bigdog1250 · 04-04-2013, 01:56 PM

For all you "Warped rotors" guys:

-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths

Fountainhead · 04-05-2013, 10:19 AM

I'm kind of on the fence about warp, I just know that in the old days, when all the auto parts houses would turn the rotor, when we clamped the rotor to the lathe and just rotated the rotor against the lathe bit there would indeed be an uneven surface. Thinking back none of us questioned the "trueness" of the lathe, the trueness of the rotor mounting face, we just turned the rotor until the high spots were gone and put it back on the car and the problem was solved. Usually we saw rotors that were ran several years on the metal face of the worn out pad by drivers that had no idea what the noise was but they KNEW it would cost them money so they just kept on going, haha.

Sh0velMan · 04-05-2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fountainhead

I'm kind of on the fence about warp, I just know that in the old days, when all the auto parts houses would turn the rotor, when we clamped the rotor to the lathe and just rotated the rotor against the lathe bit there would indeed be an uneven surface. Thinking back none of us questioned the "trueness" of the lathe, the trueness of the rotor mounting face, we just turned the rotor until the high spots were gone and put it back on the car and the problem was solved. Usually we saw rotors that were ran several years on the metal face of the worn out pad by drivers that had no idea what the noise was but they KNEW it would cost them money so they just kept on going, haha.

The pulsation and loss of braking power is definitely caused by high spots on the friction surface, but that's not necessarily caused by warpage.

You would have to measure both sides of the rotor's change in position relative to the mounting hub in real time. If one side sticks out 2mm and the other is recessed 2mm at the same spot, then chances are the rotor is warped. If both sides stick out, or only one side sticks out, chances are it's cementite formation causing the hardness of the rotor material to increase so that it wears at a different rate than the surrounding metal. This causes the condition to gradually worsen over a period of time, making it "sneak up" on the driver in most cases.

Truly warped rotors are usually obvious almost immediately and don't "sneak up" on the driver. One minute they're fine, the next minute there's a pronounced pulsation in the pedal.

Sh0velMan · 04-05-2013, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishey

http://www.bonedaddy.net/Fishey/IMG_0027%20(Medium).JPG

Warped Rotor.. I have seen it many times.

Sometimes its pad transfer sometimes it is not. Usually if the rotor looks "blue" its pad transfer. If the rotor looks normal silver usually a physically warped rotor. It is extremely extremely rare that a warped rotor would happen on a car that didn't have a caliper issue. I would say 99% of real warped rotors there is a problem in the caliper or brake system that causes the condition. Hope that helps.

-Your Pal
Fishey

Show me the other side of that rotor.

Fountainhead · 04-05-2013, 10:32 AM

Right, we weren't into Analysis in those days, we were just trying to get rid of the symptom, get the pulsing, juddering to stop, and get the car safe again for "Mom, or Grandma" and move on to the next customer.
In hindsight it probably was Cementite but no one knew anything about that in my circle of friends, we either replaced the rotor if too thin, or we turned it, and if the pads were over 1/2 gone, we changed them too, and 99% of the time we never heard from that person again.

ImportConvert · 05-09-2013, 10:25 AM

Update:

-Shaking again at 17,000 miles. Rotors turned. Shake gone. Original Potenza's also replaced at this time with Michelin PSS.
-Shaking again at 20,XXX miles. Replaced front rotors with Z1 motorsports slotted rotors. Still shaking, but better. Brake-pads shaved, shake gone.
-Shaking again, ever so slightly, 300 miles later. Ordered StopTech Street Performance pads.

"Sport Brakes".Shittiest factory brake upgrade. Ever. In the history of shitty wannabe OEM performance part options.

Number of Nissans I will own once I trade this vehicle in, whenever that may be?

ZERO. NONE. Nice interior, great lines, but that's where the product ceases to deliver.

I really hope this solves the issue.

FYI, before they shaved the pads (20,XXX miles) , they had 8mm remaining per vehicle inspection (both front and rear, all 4 pads, listed at 8mm). Dunno what they come with from the factory.

Next move:

Drive the car until trade-in breaks even and get back into a real sports car, or a Cherokee SRT, as I am going to need some ground clearance and AWD would really be nice, where I'm moving.

sig11 · 05-09-2013, 10:59 AM

You don't think driving style plays into this? The only time I've had a problem with the wheel shaking under braking in ~47,000 miles was when my rotors were cracked or I got off the track hot and parked too soon.

Chuck33079 · 05-09-2013, 11:11 AM

Judging from the lack of posts from other people about this, it is either driving style, a one-off problem with the car, or (my guess) the dealer doing the repairs is somehow screwing up the job. OP, have you tried another dealer?

ImportConvert · 05-09-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11

You don't think driving style plays into this? The only time I've had a problem with the wheel shaking under braking in ~47,000 miles was when my rotors were cracked or I got off the track hot and parked too soon.

If it does, then my Mustang 5.0 (yeah, the 80's 5.0...), WS.6, Z06, and the rental Kia I had for a month (while my 370Z was repaired from an accident when another driver lost control of their SUV) are all a lot better able to handle my daily driving than a 370Z/Sport is.

If my driving style is causing this issue, I'll just get into a real car and be done with it, because if I can get 17,000 miles out of 140 treadwear tires on the street and fry the brakes mutiple times and "it's user related", well, the brakes are ****. Simple as that.

ImportConvert · 05-09-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Judging from the lack of posts from other people about this, it is either driving style, a one-off problem with the car, or (my guess) the dealer doing the repairs is somehow screwing up the job. OP, have you tried another dealer?

What is there to screw up? The problem was solved for 7,000 miles the first time, 3,000 miles the second, and I can feel it starting to come back after a few hundred, now. Slotted rotors heat brake pads up faster than normal blanks. I think the SPORT pads from Nissan may just be total junk, or I got a bad set, or something.

04-04-2013, 01:56 PM	#51 (permalink)
bigdog1250 Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 846 Drives: 991.2 GT3 Rep Power: 18	For all you "Warped rotors" guys: -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths __________________ 350z / 40th 370z / C6 Z06 / BMW M4 / V10 R8 / C7 Grand Spot / 997.1 GT3 / S2K / Camaro ZL1 / 718 GTS / 991.2 GT3

05-09-2013, 10:25 AM	#56 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	Update: -Shaking again at 17,000 miles. Rotors turned. Shake gone. Original Potenza's also replaced at this time with Michelin PSS. -Shaking again at 20,XXX miles. Replaced front rotors with Z1 motorsports slotted rotors. Still shaking, but better. Brake-pads shaved, shake gone. -Shaking again, ever so slightly, 300 miles later. Ordered StopTech Street Performance pads. "Sport Brakes".Shittiest factory brake upgrade. Ever. In the history of shitty wannabe OEM performance part options. Number of Nissans I will own once I trade this vehicle in, whenever that may be? ZERO. NONE. Nice interior, great lines, but that's where the product ceases to deliver. I really hope this solves the issue. FYI, before they shaved the pads (20,XXX miles) , they had 8mm remaining per vehicle inspection (both front and rear, all 4 pads, listed at 8mm). Dunno what they come with from the factory. Next move: Drive the car until trade-in breaks even and get back into a real sports car, or a Cherokee SRT, as I am going to need some ground clearance and AWD would really be nice, where I'm moving. Last edited by ImportConvert; 05-09-2013 at 10:29 AM.

05-09-2013, 11:11 AM	#58 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Judging from the lack of posts from other people about this, it is either driving style, a one-off problem with the car, or (my guess) the dealer doing the repairs is somehow screwing up the job. OP, have you tried another dealer? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
SC 370z problem	geohartanto	Forced Induction	14	12-05-2011 01:03 AM
Another problem with my 370Z	plumber78	Engine & Drivetrain	10	06-24-2011 07:30 AM
I think i found a problem with my 370Z...	Juruki	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	43	07-19-2010 11:19 AM
370Z Not Cranking Problem	Master_Ly	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	38	05-06-2010 10:50 PM
New Roadster, Spoiler problem, dealer problem	Hello	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	26	01-11-2010 06:22 PM

04-05-2013, 10:19 AM	#52 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	I'm kind of on the fence about warp, I just know that in the old days, when all the auto parts houses would turn the rotor, when we clamped the rotor to the lathe and just rotated the rotor against the lathe bit there would indeed be an uneven surface. Thinking back none of us questioned the "trueness" of the lathe, the trueness of the rotor mounting face, we just turned the rotor until the high spots were gone and put it back on the car and the problem was solved. Usually we saw rotors that were ran several years on the metal face of the worn out pad by drivers that had no idea what the noise was but they KNEW it would cost them money so they just kept on going, haha.

04-05-2013, 10:32 AM	#55 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	Right, we weren't into Analysis in those days, we were just trying to get rid of the symptom, get the pulsing, juddering to stop, and get the car safe again for "Mom, or Grandma" and move on to the next customer. In hindsight it probably was Cementite but no one knew anything about that in my circle of friends, we either replaced the rotor if too thin, or we turned it, and if the pads were over 1/2 gone, we changed them too, and 99% of the time we never heard from that person again.

05-09-2013, 10:59 AM	#57 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 18	You don't think driving style plays into this? The only time I've had a problem with the wheel shaking under braking in ~47,000 miles was when my rotors were cracked or I got off the track hot and parked too soon.