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-   -   First Problem With my 370Z (http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspension/60377-first-problem-my-370z.html)

Coon-azz 04-03-2013 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2248572)
Yeah, if it's cementite formation, it actually alters the metal of the rotor... simply turning them down a few thousandths to re-surface them won't really suffice. You have to take off a LOT of material to get rid of it, usually resulting in the rotor being out of spec.

I would just get the cheapest rotors you can find and pair them with the most aggressive Carbotech or CL pad you can stomach and call it a day.

Why do you choose these pads over others? I'm asking because it seems there was some testing here on your part...which is worth a lot of time and $. :tup:

Sh0velMan 04-03-2013 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coon-azz (Post 2248581)
Why do you choose these pads over others? I'm asking because it seems there was some testing here on your part...which is worth a lot of time and $. :tup:

They are non-transfer pads. Not possible to create cementite with a non transfer pad.

You can still WARP them, but it's a helluva lot harder to WARP a rotor than most people think. Almost always involves heavy braking a followed by a temperature shock, like racing to the car wash and immediately dousing the entire rotor in water. lol (Rainwater won't do this, as it'll be constantly sprayed, not nearly-submerged instantly like in a car wash scenario)

sig11 04-03-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2248594)
They are non-transfer pads. Not possible to create cementite with a non transfer pad.

Carbotech pads do require bedding/create a transfer layer!

Sh0velMan 04-03-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11 (Post 2248625)
Carbotech pads do require bedding/create a transfer layer!

o rly.

Well then scratch that.

RC5+ or RC6 from CL then.

Coon-azz 04-03-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2248672)
o rly.

Well then scratch that.

RC5+ or RC6 from CL then.

ok...researching...thanks

bigdog1250 04-04-2013 12:56 PM

For all you "Warped rotors" guys:

-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths

Fountainhead 04-05-2013 09:19 AM

I'm kind of on the fence about warp, I just know that in the old days, when all the auto parts houses would turn the rotor, when we clamped the rotor to the lathe and just rotated the rotor against the lathe bit there would indeed be an uneven surface. Thinking back none of us questioned the "trueness" of the lathe, the trueness of the rotor mounting face, we just turned the rotor until the high spots were gone and put it back on the car and the problem was solved. Usually we saw rotors that were ran several years on the metal face of the worn out pad by drivers that had no idea what the noise was but they KNEW it would cost them money so they just kept on going, haha.

Sh0velMan 04-05-2013 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fountainhead (Post 2252210)
I'm kind of on the fence about warp, I just know that in the old days, when all the auto parts houses would turn the rotor, when we clamped the rotor to the lathe and just rotated the rotor against the lathe bit there would indeed be an uneven surface. Thinking back none of us questioned the "trueness" of the lathe, the trueness of the rotor mounting face, we just turned the rotor until the high spots were gone and put it back on the car and the problem was solved. Usually we saw rotors that were ran several years on the metal face of the worn out pad by drivers that had no idea what the noise was but they KNEW it would cost them money so they just kept on going, haha.


The pulsation and loss of braking power is definitely caused by high spots on the friction surface, but that's not necessarily caused by warpage.

You would have to measure both sides of the rotor's change in position relative to the mounting hub in real time. If one side sticks out 2mm and the other is recessed 2mm at the same spot, then chances are the rotor is warped. If both sides stick out, or only one side sticks out, chances are it's cementite formation causing the hardness of the rotor material to increase so that it wears at a different rate than the surrounding metal. This causes the condition to gradually worsen over a period of time, making it "sneak up" on the driver in most cases.

Truly warped rotors are usually obvious almost immediately and don't "sneak up" on the driver. One minute they're fine, the next minute there's a pronounced pulsation in the pedal.

Sh0velMan 04-05-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishey (Post 1954594)
http://www.bonedaddy.net/Fishey/IMG_0027%20(Medium).JPG
http://www.bonedaddy.net/Fishey/IMG_0027%20(Medium).JPG

Warped Rotor.. I have seen it many times.

Sometimes its pad transfer sometimes it is not. Usually if the rotor looks "blue" its pad transfer. If the rotor looks normal silver usually a physically warped rotor. It is extremely extremely rare that a warped rotor would happen on a car that didn't have a caliper issue. I would say 99% of real warped rotors there is a problem in the caliper or brake system that causes the condition. Hope that helps.

-Your Pal
Fishey

Show me the other side of that rotor.

Fountainhead 04-05-2013 09:32 AM

Right, we weren't into Analysis in those days, we were just trying to get rid of the symptom, get the pulsing, juddering to stop, and get the car safe again for "Mom, or Grandma" and move on to the next customer.
In hindsight it probably was Cementite but no one knew anything about that in my circle of friends, we either replaced the rotor if too thin, or we turned it, and if the pads were over 1/2 gone, we changed them too, and 99% of the time we never heard from that person again.

ImportConvert 05-09-2013 09:25 AM

Update:

-Shaking again at 17,000 miles. Rotors turned. Shake gone. Original Potenza's also replaced at this time with Michelin PSS.
-Shaking again at 20,XXX miles. Replaced front rotors with Z1 motorsports slotted rotors. Still shaking, but better. Brake-pads shaved, shake gone.
-Shaking again, ever so slightly, 300 miles later. Ordered StopTech Street Performance pads.

"Sport Brakes".Shittiest factory brake upgrade. Ever. In the history of shitty wannabe OEM performance part options.

Number of Nissans I will own once I trade this vehicle in, whenever that may be?

ZERO. NONE. Nice interior, great lines, but that's where the product ceases to deliver.

I really hope this solves the issue.

FYI, before they shaved the pads (20,XXX miles) , they had 8mm remaining per vehicle inspection (both front and rear, all 4 pads, listed at 8mm). Dunno what they come with from the factory.

Next move:

Drive the car until trade-in breaks even and get back into a real sports car, or a Cherokee SRT, as I am going to need some ground clearance and AWD would really be nice, where I'm moving.

sig11 05-09-2013 09:59 AM

You don't think driving style plays into this? The only time I've had a problem with the wheel shaking under braking in ~47,000 miles was when my rotors were cracked or I got off the track hot and parked too soon.

Chuck33079 05-09-2013 10:11 AM

Judging from the lack of posts from other people about this, it is either driving style, a one-off problem with the car, or (my guess) the dealer doing the repairs is somehow screwing up the job. OP, have you tried another dealer?

ImportConvert 05-09-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11 (Post 2307839)
You don't think driving style plays into this? The only time I've had a problem with the wheel shaking under braking in ~47,000 miles was when my rotors were cracked or I got off the track hot and parked too soon.

If it does, then my Mustang 5.0 (yeah, the 80's 5.0...), WS.6, Z06, and the rental Kia I had for a month (while my 370Z was repaired from an accident when another driver lost control of their SUV) are all a lot better able to handle my daily driving than a 370Z/Sport is.

If my driving style is causing this issue, I'll just get into a real car and be done with it, because if I can get 17,000 miles out of 140 treadwear tires on the street and fry the brakes mutiple times and "it's user related", well, the brakes are ****. Simple as that.

ImportConvert 05-09-2013 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2307871)
Judging from the lack of posts from other people about this, it is either driving style, a one-off problem with the car, or (my guess) the dealer doing the repairs is somehow screwing up the job. OP, have you tried another dealer?

What is there to screw up? The problem was solved for 7,000 miles the first time, 3,000 miles the second, and I can feel it starting to come back after a few hundred, now. Slotted rotors heat brake pads up faster than normal blanks. I think the SPORT pads from Nissan may just be total junk, or I got a bad set, or something.


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