Brakes - 101

joshs09slvrZ · 07-06-2012, 04:48 PM

Hey guys!

I apologize if this has been discussed before...but how many miles are you guys seeing out of your stock sport brakes before you need them turned, machined, replaced, etc? I've got a little over 36k miles on my original brakes and haven't had anything done to them. I don't track the car or anything...it's just a DD. I don't have anything making me think I need new brakes, just more out of curiosity.

wstar · 07-06-2012, 05:09 PM

Generally speaking, if you're paying attention to your car it will tell you when you have impending braking issues. Vibration while braking, squeaks from wear indicators on the pads, etc. 36K of regular street miles is nothing for the stock rotors and other hardware, pads vary a lot though, and I'm not sure how far those stock pads will go. If you're concerned, pull the wheels off and look at the pad thickness, you can see it without even removing them.

The most important thing for brake life is how you treat the system. The basics is never ride the brakes, and don't get in the habit of braking gently over long periods (which is basically the same thing). Use them for a quick shutdown of speed, as hard as you reasonably can without scaring the person behind you or in the passenger seat, and get back off of them to let them cool with the wheels rolling.

Don't ever stand on the brakes at a dead stop, that's the worst possible thing. You build up all that heat coming to a stop and then sit there and burn the hot pads into one spot on the hot rotors, which leads to uneven buildup of transfered material, and vibration, which will in turn cause problems in the rotor over time through a complex chain of events (basically, uneven buildup -> pad bounce/vibration -> uneven heating -> the hot spots become hard spots in the metal due to metallurgical changes under heat -> the hard spots wear slower than the soft spots, leading to an uneven metal surface even if you managed to scrape off the uneven pad deposits that started the whole mess).

That one thing is the cause of most brake issues and maintenance costs in most street cars, because virtually everyone drives an automatic, and at every stoplight they use the brakes slow and long (heat) and then stand on them in Drive at the stoplight until traffic moves again. Get to a near-stop on the brakes, get off the brakes, put the auto in Neutral, and coast down to natural stop without the brakes for the final few feet. It doesn't take much practice to figure out how to do it reliably, although stops on uphills kinda leave you mostly screwed. Try to plan those out - cut speed earlier and try to slow-roll it in gear until traffic moves again. Obviously the whole thing is more natural for a manual driver, since you never hold 1st-vs-brakes at a stop anyways, that would be silly. Just remember not to stop on the brakes, roll out the last few feet without them.

6MT · 07-06-2012, 05:28 PM

When they wear out.

Not trying to be rude, but you could go 100k without having to do anything or you might have to replace the pads and machine/replace the rotors after a couple of hours on the track.

joshs09slvrZ · 07-06-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Generally speaking, if you're paying attention to your car it will tell you when you have impending braking issues. Vibration while braking, squeaks from wear indicators on the pads, etc. 36K of regular street miles is nothing for the stock rotors and other hardware, pads vary a lot though, and I'm not sure how far those stock pads will go. If you're concerned, pull the wheels off and look at the pad thickness, you can see it without even removing them.

The most important thing for brake life is how you treat the system. The basics is never ride the brakes, and don't get in the habit of braking gently over long periods (which is basically the same thing). Use them for a quick shutdown of speed, as hard as you reasonably can without scaring the person behind you or in the passenger seat, and get back off of them to let them cool with the wheels rolling.

Don't ever stand on the brakes at a dead stop, that's the worst possible thing. You build up all that heat coming to a stop and then sit there and burn the hot pads into one spot on the hot rotors, which leads to uneven buildup of transfered material, and vibration, which will in turn cause problems in the rotor over time through a complex chain of events (basically, uneven buildup -> pad bounce/vibration -> uneven heating -> the hot spots become hard spots in the metal due to metallurgical changes under heat -> the hard spots wear slower than the soft spots, leading to an uneven metal surface even if you managed to scrape off the uneven pad deposits that started the whole mess).

That one thing is the cause of most brake issues and maintenance costs in most street cars, because virtually everyone drives an automatic, and at every stoplight they use the brakes slow and long (heat) and then stand on them in Drive at the stoplight until traffic moves again. Get to a near-stop on the brakes, get off the brakes, put the auto in Neutral, and coast down to natural stop without the brakes for the final few feet. It doesn't take much practice to figure out how to do it reliably, although stops on uphills kinda leave you mostly screwed. Try to plan those out - cut speed earlier and try to slow-roll it in gear until traffic moves again. Obviously the whole thing is more natural for a manual driver, since you never hold 1st-vs-brakes at a stop anyways, that would be silly. Just remember not to stop on the brakes, roll out the last few feet without them.

Very informative post!! I don't feel any vibrations or hear any squeeks...but when I pull the wheels of next weekend to install my Swifts...I'll give the pads a look over and see what they look like. Can you replace pads only and not the rotors or is that not a good idea?

SPOHN · 07-06-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Generally speaking, if you're paying attention to your car it will tell you when you have impending braking issues. Vibration while braking, squeaks from wear indicators on the pads, etc. 36K of regular street miles is nothing for the stock rotors and other hardware, pads vary a lot though, and I'm not sure how far those stock pads will go. If you're concerned, pull the wheels off and look at the pad thickness, you can see it without even removing them.

The most important thing for brake life is how you treat the system. The basics is never ride the brakes, and don't get in the habit of braking gently over long periods (which is basically the same thing). Use them for a quick shutdown of speed, as hard as you reasonably can without scaring the person behind you or in the passenger seat, and get back off of them to let them cool with the wheels rolling.

Don't ever stand on the brakes at a dead stop, that's the worst possible thing. You build up all that heat coming to a stop and then sit there and burn the hot pads into one spot on the hot rotors, which leads to uneven buildup of transfered material, and vibration, which will in turn cause problems in the rotor over time through a complex chain of events (basically, uneven buildup -> pad bounce/vibration -> uneven heating -> the hot spots become hard spots in the metal due to metallurgical changes under heat -> the hard spots wear slower than the soft spots, leading to an uneven metal surface even if you managed to scrape off the uneven pad deposits that started the whole mess).

That one thing is the cause of most brake issues and maintenance costs in most street cars, because virtually everyone drives an automatic, and at every stoplight they use the brakes slow and long (heat) and then stand on them in Drive at the stoplight until traffic moves again. Get to a near-stop on the brakes, get off the brakes, put the auto in Neutral, and coast down to natural stop without the brakes for the final few feet. It doesn't take much practice to figure out how to do it reliably, although stops on uphills kinda leave you mostly screwed. Try to plan those out - cut speed earlier and try to slow-roll it in gear until traffic moves again. Obviously the whole thing is more natural for a manual driver, since you never hold 1st-vs-brakes at a stop anyways, that would be silly. Just remember not to stop on the brakes, roll out the last few feet without them.

You always have a good way of explaining things

wstar · 07-07-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshs09slvrZ

Can you replace pads only and not the rotors or is that not a good idea?

Yes, it's common to replace pads multiple times before the rotors are toast. In theory if you treated your rotors perfectly, they'd eventually fail an inspection for being too thin for the service manual's specs as they wear down over time. But usually somewhere around where thin-ness becomes a problem, they're so much easier to affect with heat that you'll feel other damage (uneven thickness / "warped" feel) and know it's time.

cossie1600 · 07-07-2012, 12:34 AM

I got 400+ autox runs, stock pads and rotors @ 60-70% baby

wstar · 07-07-2012, 04:03 AM

^ His secret is he never uses the brake pedal. All it does is slow you down, who needs that in a timed event!

joshs09slvrZ · 07-07-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

^ His secret is he never uses the brake pedal. All it does is slow you down, who needs that in a timed event!

Lol!! I don't ever use my brakes...especially in morning traffic haha.

Twista · 07-07-2012, 02:19 PM

I wouldnt recommend going back and forth from neutral to drive....i would rather say learn how to keep the car rolling at stop lights..I always give myself almost a whole car length when at a stop light and usually end up rolling up to the next car till the light turns green again

wstar · 07-08-2012, 09:24 AM

It really doesn't hurt anything to go to neutral. If anything you're taking load and heat off the torque convertor and the trans fluid. There are lights around here where randomly-missed timing means sitting there for 30s+, I swear some of them are over a minute. No way you're rolling that off in a car length with a gear engaged.

Alchemy · 07-08-2012, 10:06 AM

I replaced my stock brake setup at around 32000 miles. I did this due to the fact that the rotors were warped and I was getting vibration under braking. The pads still had a ton of life on them and the rotors did too.

07-06-2012, 04:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
joshs09slvrZ Track Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spring Hill, FL Posts: 547 Drives: 09 7AT 370Z Rep Power: 16	Brakes - 101 Hey guys! I apologize if this has been discussed before...but how many miles are you guys seeing out of your stock sport brakes before you need them turned, machined, replaced, etc? I've got a little over 36k miles on my original brakes and haven't had anything done to them. I don't track the car or anything...it's just a DD. I don't have anything making me think I need new brakes, just more out of curiosity. __________________ Stillen Gen3 CAI\|Berk HFC and CBE\|UpRev\|15mm H&R front spacers\|20mm Ichiba rear spacers\|Stillen front and rear sway bars\|Yokohama S. Drives\|Swift springs\|JDM Blinking Fog\|8000k HIDs\|9% window tinting, 47% on full windshield

07-06-2012, 05:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Generally speaking, if you're paying attention to your car it will tell you when you have impending braking issues. Vibration while braking, squeaks from wear indicators on the pads, etc. 36K of regular street miles is nothing for the stock rotors and other hardware, pads vary a lot though, and I'm not sure how far those stock pads will go. If you're concerned, pull the wheels off and look at the pad thickness, you can see it without even removing them. The most important thing for brake life is how you treat the system. The basics is never ride the brakes, and don't get in the habit of braking gently over long periods (which is basically the same thing). Use them for a quick shutdown of speed, as hard as you reasonably can without scaring the person behind you or in the passenger seat, and get back off of them to let them cool with the wheels rolling. Don't ever stand on the brakes at a dead stop, that's the worst possible thing. You build up all that heat coming to a stop and then sit there and burn the hot pads into one spot on the hot rotors, which leads to uneven buildup of transfered material, and vibration, which will in turn cause problems in the rotor over time through a complex chain of events (basically, uneven buildup -> pad bounce/vibration -> uneven heating -> the hot spots become hard spots in the metal due to metallurgical changes under heat -> the hard spots wear slower than the soft spots, leading to an uneven metal surface even if you managed to scrape off the uneven pad deposits that started the whole mess). That one thing is the cause of most brake issues and maintenance costs in most street cars, because virtually everyone drives an automatic, and at every stoplight they use the brakes slow and long (heat) and then stand on them in Drive at the stoplight until traffic moves again. Get to a near-stop on the brakes, get off the brakes, put the auto in Neutral, and coast down to natural stop without the brakes for the final few feet. It doesn't take much practice to figure out how to do it reliably, although stops on uphills kinda leave you mostly screwed. Try to plan those out - cut speed earlier and try to slow-roll it in gear until traffic moves again. Obviously the whole thing is more natural for a manual driver, since you never hold 1st-vs-brakes at a stop anyways, that would be silly. Just remember not to stop on the brakes, roll out the last few feet without them. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 07-06-2012 at 05:11 PM.

07-06-2012, 05:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
6MT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: ITU Zone 2 Posts: 22,459 Drives: Reliant Robin Rep Power: 1790	When they wear out. Not trying to be rude, but you could go 100k without having to do anything or you might have to replace the pads and machine/replace the rotors after a couple of hours on the track. __________________ Andrew 2009 370Z Sport/Touring 6MT sold 2013 Honda Civic Si coupe D/D

07-07-2012, 04:03 AM	#8 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	^ His secret is he never uses the brake pedal. All it does is slow you down, who needs that in a timed event! __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

07-08-2012, 09:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	It really doesn't hurt anything to go to neutral. If anything you're taking load and heat off the torque convertor and the trans fluid. There are lights around here where randomly-missed timing means sitting there for 30s+, I swear some of them are over a minute. No way you're rolling that off in a car length with a gear engaged. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

07-07-2012, 12:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	I got 400+ autox runs, stock pads and rotors @ 60-70% baby

07-07-2012, 02:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Twista Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 12 Drives: 07 350z Rep Power: 16	I wouldnt recommend going back and forth from neutral to drive....i would rather say learn how to keep the car rolling at stop lights..I always give myself almost a whole car length when at a stop light and usually end up rolling up to the next car till the light turns green again

07-08-2012, 10:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
Alchemy A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 4,855 Drives: to acquire tickets Rep Power: 3524	I replaced my stock brake setup at around 32000 miles. I did this due to the fact that the rotors were warped and I was getting vibration under braking. The pads still had a ton of life on them and the rotors did too. __________________ Ryan 314WHP \| 260LB-FT \| STILLEN \| KONI \| SWIFT \| STOPTECH \| Z1 \| PROJECT MU \| CNT \| UPREV \| FORGESTAR \| BRIDGESTONE \| PWJDM \| ENEOS \| MOTUL

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