Swift Springs // Problem with Alignment
 

I would like to know what the hell is going on? I posted about this before and it still isn't resolved. I have taken my car to three different places and had four alignments done.

I have swift springs with a rear camber kit. They can't seem to get my alignment right. The steering wheel sits off to the left. When they do align it to the "center" it pulls to the right. Everyone either seems to be an idiot or the springs wacked out my alignment so bad they really can't get it back into specs without further modifications?

Can I get some insight.

From my experience there is a lot of shops that don't do good enough alignments. I only trust one shop to do mine. And it was years before I found them. They charge a lot but it's perfect every time.

I'd like to see pics of your rear camber kit and toe bolts? Do you have some pics of the alignment before and after from all the shops you went to so we can see what's being thrown off from each time it was done? Also are you running spacers or hubcentric rings?

That's just crazy.... So many people have these springs and have had NO problems at all!

when i dropped my subbie i went to les schawb for alignment. they give 30 day promise of work and will re-check your alignment for free with in that period.

OP, you said you have rear camber arms installed, but what about aftermarket toe bolts? If your car is pulling to the right or left, then the toe out is out of specs.

Toe does not cause a car to pull in a certain direction, it only causes tire wear and the steering wheel to not be centered. Camber/caster will cause your car to pull to the right or the left

^Huh? Toe does affect the way the vehicle handles....

This article came from AA1 auto repair and discusses alignment characteristics and why a vehicle may be pulling to the right or left....

" The underlying cause may be rear toe out of specifications, a bent rear axle, chassis misalignment or a stackup of assembly tolerances in the chassis causing rear axle misalignment. Measure and compare the wheelbase on both sides, check for the presence of a thrust angle, and/or measure individual rear toe. Correct by realigning the rear axle or rear toe, or by performing a thrust angle alignment"

If one rear wheel has some "toe in", and the other rear wheel is has some slight "toe out", the car is going to be all over the place. I'm thinking that is probably whats wrong with the OP's alignment. Plus since he said he installed a camber kit, I'm assuming the alignment techs were able to get the camber back to specs, however he didn't say anything about new toe bolts.

Or they could have gotten the correct toe but the camber is way out of specs.... We really need to see the his alignment sheet to see whats going on

You might want to also just have them check your steering linkage just to make sure when the steering wheel points to 'zero', the front wheels are actually pointing to zero. Something I found out one day that's not encompassed in most alignment checks.

Bad toe will definitely cause very bad bump steer as well as drift in a particular direction.

I'm betting this is going to be an installation issue such as loose spring perch bolts or something along those lines.

OP, check the suspension and make sure everything is installed correctly. You may have missed something.

They must have the toe a little off...

I just put Swift springs on my 370 last week. No camber kit. I was waiting a week or so to settle before I take it to get an alignment. After 4 days still tracks straight, no pulling, no viberations. I'll probably take it in this week to have an alignment and the camber adjusted.

So, it sounds like your alignment shops are the issue.

This is absolutely ridiculous that I am having this many problems when other people are doing the exact same thing and I haven't heard of anything this bad. It's complete garbage.

I will post the alignment sheet here in the next day or so. Thank you for everyone's help.

Swifts and new Hankooks last night. Here's the alignment sheet, no camber kit

http://www.the370z.com/members/wheee...7483-align.jpg

Has anyone else run swift springs without adjustable add ons?

Look at post #11 in this thread . . .

Someone else revived this old thread, so I’ll add on.

I’ve had my Z lowered on Swift spec R springs for about a year. I knew I had some camber with my rear tires, but within spec of alignment. I hardly ever drive it in the rain, but did so today and felt like I was riding on ice. Checking the tread, my inner tread is almost gone.

I guess I need to invest in some new rear camber arms.

I’m running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires. Anything I can do aside from removing wheels and flipping tires to help extend life? Would running lower air pressure help?

Thanks for any positive feedback. Be kind! Lol

AS3 has “inside” and “outside” markings, don’t think you are supposed to flip them.

I looked them up and it says that they’re non-directional. I know rotating them won’t do any good, and my wheels are staggered, so just trying to see what can be done to get as much life out of these as possible before replacing.

Directional and inside/outside markings aren’t one in the same.

Can you? Yes. Should you? No.

Gotcha, thanks. Going to order and install camber kit. Just hoping news tires aren’t needed right away.

Well, what’s the difference in thread depth from outside to inside? If you are already down to 4/32 at the middle, then you should replace. If you are flat on inside, but 6/32 middle, then it’s more than camber.

More often than not, it’s both toe and camber being off that chew up tires. Seen someone did lowering, arms, and tires at the same time (but didn’t do alignment lol), and new tires were shredded to almost flat within 14 days of normal driving. Toe was way off. No exaggeration.

I’ll have to check the depth. I’m 99% positive it’s just the camber. When they did the alignment they said it wasn’t perfect, but within specs. I’ve got about 20k miles on the tires.

I ordered new camber arms and toe bolts.

20k miles on as3? Either you drive hard often enough, or the alignment was no good really. AS3 is supposed to last a whole lot longer than that.

Also, individually, camber and toe may be within spec. But combined, it’s a different story. Toe-in (in this case) always exaggerate the wear on the inner thread from increased negative camber.

And on stock arms with rubber bushings, alignment can change as the bushings deteriorate (age, hard cornering/braking/acceleration, hitting a curb, or potholes one too many times...)

Thats a prob with these springs

Folks wanna buy these for a drop thinking they are saving money over coilovers and arms


But if they drop so low u need alignment adjustment then u still need the arms

In which case just get ******* coilovers for full adjustments

I don’t drive hard. I actually take it very easy. There is enough camber that I can see it.

I’m thinking the springs settled in some, and it’s way out of alignment now.

You remember what your camber settings are?

I took the gamble which seems like I lost. I’ve read some haven’t had to do anything other than the springs. I’ll get coil overs next year or so when budget allows.

I don’t. I thought I had the results in my glove box. But it wasn’t there.

If I have to buy new tires, lesson learned.

The first photo is my left rear tire. Second photo is of my front right.

My front is fine, my rears are where the camber is off. I went the cheap route now with new camber arms and eccentric bolts. Will go to coilovers next year after taxes.

Rear toe does not cause pull. Rear toe is responsible for the thrust angle which then your front wheel toe is adjusted to. In your specific example of one wheel toe in and the other toe out, this will just cause the rear end to be off to the side. There is even a specific name for this called dog tracking because it is just like some dog that walk with their rear end to one side while going in a straight line. Think about it, if you set the LR wheel toe in and the RR toe out and then the front gets adjusted to that (this is why rear toe is adjusted before front toe) so your LF also gets toed in and your RF gets toed out because front toe is set from thrust angle which is determined by rear toe (compared to true vehicle center). Now your vehicle will go in a straight line with the steering wheel being centered all the while you’ll be looking through your side window as your windshield.

SPL rear camber arms installed, two new rear tires, and an alignment.

Does the alignment look ok to you all?

I mean looks good to me.
I'll be doing the same mod. No coils yet. #brokelife problem

So here I am 8 months later and around 6k miles and I need new rear tires again. Inner tread is just wearing down. Alignment looked good to me.

Any suggestions here folks?

post alignment specs

i hope you are not literally relying on how it appears visually

if you did not get a lockout kit, your eccentric bolts may also become loosened

You could take some camber and toe out. Camber from -1.69 to -1.40. Toe from 15* to 9*.

My alignment is a few post up from 7/29/20 (#32). I’m not the most mechanically inclined, but I would go off more than visual! Lol

I upgraded to the SPL rear camber arms and Z1 eccentric elimination kit ( https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pro...t-p-11977.html ). Looks to be the same as the lockout kit? But looking back it looks like I only ordered the camber bolts and not toe.

I saw that alignment, but that's why i inquired about the lockout kit

I'm hoping alignment got knocked out somehow and that's why I didn't get much out of this set of rear tires. I went ahead and orderd the eccentric bolts from ZSpeed for the toe (already have them for the camber). And spoke to Joe who gave me some suggestions on how to have them setup the alignment.

That's very close to what Joe said as well. Basically the combination of the camber and the toe is a tire killer. He suggested getting the toe as close to .18 total as possible.