Brake Fade a risk for first time tracker?
 

Hi,

I've read a lot about brake fade on this forum and am wondering how big of a risk/ how likely is it that I may encounter it as a complete newbie going to the track for the first time (ever in any car). I have the stock sport package brakes and wasn't planning on replacing my pads for better ones until I actually needed new pads. I am at 4100 miles only so it will be some time before then. My friend says as a beginner, I won't be pushing it hard enough for brake fade to affect me, but I am a little worried and am wondering what you all think since many of you are very knowledgeable.

Thanks

I plan to do my first track day in 3 weeks on December 17th at Button Willow. They have a Performance Driving Clinic/track day for $195.

you should at least change the fluid, but you will probably be fine as a first timer. I met a fellow forum member this weekend, but I don't know his screen name. He said he did lose his brakes at his first ever track day.

I lost my brakes on my first track day. Granted it was in my GT500 which weighed a crap ton haha. But I got the fever and was playing with a Porsche and trying to keep up in the bends (easily had him on the straights but not even close in te bends) just don't get ahead of yourself and make sure to turn vdc off

Will VDC attribute to brake fade while tracking? Is it a good idea for a complete beginner to have that off?

IMO, I wouldn't feel safe/comfortable taking the Z out on track with stock brake pads/fluid, but I tend to err on the conservative side of things regarding this kind of stuff.

Any warning signs for brake fade? Just how quickly does the fade set in and how long of a cooldown would they need to get back to normal?

What pads do people recommend for a good street/track pad? I read that track pads bite into the rotors and aren't as good for normal street driving. I am interested in a moderate 2 way pad that's good on the street and good enough, but not the best, for the track which won't eat my rotors. I will probably only track a few times a year so normal street driving would be more important. Just want to feel safe when i do track, but I am not hardcore. Also, any idea how long my stock factory pads will last before I get to change them naturally as opposed to replacing them while they're still fine?

There is no such thing as a dual pad. It's like all season tires.

At first hint of anything feeling abnormal, ease up and pit in. When mine boiled on my first track day, I went from slight squishiness to a 30foot stop from 10 mph in the pit, and I coasted all the way. When it hits, it happens quick.

yes VDC will attribute to brake fade because it modulates the brakes in order maintain traction (along with other ways) but you wil need to shut it off. you probably wont experience fade so much as you will likely boil the stock fluid. And yes it can be very dangerous when it happens. Also remember your insurance wont cover ANY damage occured while on track. If you wreck your car, your S.O.L

So I should definitely change my brake fluid is the general consensus and probably pads sooner rather than later. What Brake fluid do people recommend and any pads that will perform alright on the track but won;t eat up my rotors?

Motul or brembo fluid. Brembo is slightly less expensive. For pads, carbotech xp8

Thanks, I'll look into the Carbotechs. Do we have a specific sponsor with a good prices for these?

Forged performance

I've seen this happen plenty of times. Just pay attention to the car, and you'll be ok. As Mike said, as soon as you have feel anything odd, back off and take a cool off lap if allowed. Regardless of whether or not you're allowed a cool-off lap, get back to the pits.

As far as where to purchase from... We've got a wall full of Motul :) Give me a call! The info is below.

Motul RBF600 Synthetic DOT 4 the one I should be looking at? how much do I need? Is it necessary to change out my brake lines if I will only be tracking occasionally?

see sig, we run carbotech xp8's. It's a good track pad if you're not a maniac on the track (mike, he's fast :)), and I find them totally streetable and carbotech's have non corrosive dust, at least the xp8's seem to since no wheel damage and 4 track days and 1000's of street miles on them so far.

motul rbf 600, forged performance lines (or any other good quality line)

/\ :tup:

Carbotech are really good, kind of noisy though especially if your Z is your DD. Im using AMS ceramic pads and have been really happy with them so far. Great compromise between a street/track pad. Z1 carries these and they arent expensive. As for fluid, Ive used Motul in the past and had great experiences with it, never tried Brembo fluid but Im sure its all about the same stuff

Great thread, I will also have my first track day in January on my '12 since I'm at around 1200 miles right now. I am thinking of upgrading to braided brake lines and fluid. Wear out the pads on the track and install new pads after that.

We will see how the new oil cooler on the 2012's do!

Thanks for all the good info.

Are you referring to the AMS Carbon-Ceramic Pads 370Z/G37 Akebono/Sport Package The Z is my DD so less noisy would be better if these still perform well enough on the track. I'm not hardcore, I just want to be safe. If I end up getting really into it, pads can change. Anyone else have experience with these pads? They're looking pretty good at that price.

Anyone have experience with the z1 stainless steel brake lines? I noticed they also have premium stainless steel lines, are those any better than the regular?

Don't worry about stainless steel lines right now. Your focus should be pads and fluid. I track frequently and use the stock brake lines. With regard to stainless steel lines, it's a feel difference, not a performance difference. The pads and fluids are performance/safety changes that you need to address first.

The fluids are $40 and the lines kit w/ fluid are only $104 and $124 for regular and premium so I thought might as well since it's not much more. If they don't help in performance, though, then I guess I might not need them. What is the feel difference they provide?

yes those are the pads im talking abuot and ive been very very happy with mine so far. the initial bite is awesome! no noise and less dust than the stock pads. All around good pad for occasionaly track uses

So you want to kill your pads prematurely while getting no performance benefits out of it?

I did my first track event earlier this month at Willow Springs (Big Willow Track). I was bone stock. My car came with the Nismo pads which are only a hair better than the standard sport pads. I had 2 bottles of Amsoil DOT4 on standby...I would have swapped the fluid before hand but ran out of time due to a minor shipping delay. Big Willow is a fast track but it isn't super brake intensive for a first timer despite getting up to 120mph a few times. Also, due to the lack of oil cooler I was pitting the car every 10-15 minutes to cool it down so I am sure this helped the brakes cool also. If I were to do it again I would swap the fluid and at the very least bring spare pads if not swapping out for better ones before hand. I made sure to turn VDC off the whole time too.

Have fun, and be safe! I saw a brand new SS camero go into a wall do to a fouled track so keep an eye out for anything abnormal conditions and flag workers and make sure to back off accordingly.

Thanks for the advice. I was originally planning to do a course at Buttonwillow, but my friends who track regularly may go to Big Willow instead so I might go to that track with them instead of Buttonwillow.

What difference do the brake lines make?

I don't have SS lines yet but they really firm up the pedal feel from what I've read on here.

I should add to my earlier post that I was worried I would ice mode after reading several valid postings on here (these guys know what they're talking about). However, with the frequent oil cool down pit stops, I did not notice any fade or softening. The brakes felt sharp all day and everyone that rode with me commented on how well the car slowed down coming off the front straight into turn 1. For a bone stock car this thing tracked amazingly well!!! I was eating cars up in the corners once I got the lines down.

Also, make sure to let some air out of the tires before you do some hot laps. I put all 4 tires at 32psi (cold)...they went up to 41-42psi hot and felt perfect.

NM my comment earlier on brake line prices, I was looking at sets earlier on another site that included the fluid, but didn't realize the z1 lines were priced just for lines, not as a kit

Reason I say that, my car has 1200 miles. I would like to kill the pads before throwing them away for new pads. I think 1 track day should be fine as long as I don't push it too hard. It will be willowsprings or buttonwillow.

we should all set a track day to Streets of Willow or Big Willow and caravan together!

Sounds like a good idea.

pads dont rot, just keep it and use it whenever you are not at the track. there is no such thing as a dual purpose pad

I was going to waste the stock pads and get more aggressive pads. I don't see a need to keep the stock pads once I change. I don't mind some pad squeals.

As a general rule:

If you track even just one time... Change to steel braided lines! and DOT4 fluids!

There is nothing like an OEM line that just pops off going down a straight into the last corner at 125mph and there is only 200ft of run off before you hit the tire wall! I have watched friends have this happen to them time and time again. Brakes are the items you need take the time to prepare them for the track... do not skimp on safety features!

we'll plan a day sometime next year, I have to do some preparations first :D

this thread makes me realize i do also

I'd be in for Streets. Would bring my Maxima since it's quicker around the track than my Nismo!