Brake Fade a risk for first time tracker?

Island_370

I was tracking a rental Dodge Charger. 4300 pounds on 195 tires = brake early!

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Autobahn Country Club (North and South Tracks), Blackhawk Farms, Grattan, Gingerman, Mid-Ohio, Putnam Park, Road America, Sears Point, Thunderhill, VIR and "The Ring"

ChrisSlicks

I remember reading that article, however it wasn't great test data wise as the driver (and track) simply got faster as the day went on. The comments from the driver about fade etc. are more telling and more interesting than the raw lap times. If they had 2 days they should have reversed the running order and ran them again.

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

cossie1600

yeah i agree, but you can see the ebc stuff is not all that, ebc is an internet favorite

ChrisSlicks

Because they are colorful probably.

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

cossie1600

That and the Hawk HPS. Most overrated pads?

SPOHN

^ yep. Hawks suck

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TopElement

Yeah, i like Yellowstuff so much but really wish they were Fuscia!

Not all pads are available for all applications. So often times availability dictates preference.

Is there a list of pads available for 370z sport brakes?

cossie1600

a real race brake shop can make you anything for not much more....

SiRay6

A lot of good information was shared...I'm going to give my opinion based on my reflection of what I remember about my first hpde and BW specifically.

If you are doing your first event, you may not need better pads because you may not choose to push yourself or the car that hard. But you may have some natural talent and by the end of the day you may improve significantly and shave off an incredible amount of time.

So without knowing you and your "skill" level, it is hard to recommend whether you change pads now or not. I read about the AMS pads, but since they are pretty cheap, I wouldn't expect them to be much more than aggressive street pads. But I would suggest you bring your stock pads to the track in case you need a back up.

Regarding brake pads, here is my humble opinion/experience:

- EBC yellowstuff...some racer in the Subaru circle highly recommended this for people who track...I tried it and thought it was terrible...mushy pedal, not very good bite, and did not feel it was better than HP+
- Axxis/PBR ultimates...cheap and much like HP+ not sure if they make it for the Z. More like an aggressive street pad better for auto x
- HP+ is the minimum I would ever consider for track use...I have broke/cracked a few of these as they wore down below half way point. More an auto x pad or for light track duty
- I have used Hawk blues (9012)for track and I thought it was a pretty good pad, these can be harsh on rotors so I change these out at the track.
- my friend who tracks his s2000 frequently really loves his Cobalt for street and track...not sure what model though...I can find out if you are interested..

I think Carbotech recommendations above look pretty good...I'm thinking of trying the 8's or 10's...good to switch out at the track to preserve them, but okay for street from what I've read (the 8's).

I would recommend you keep VDC on. BW (are you doing 13 cw or different config?) is a larger track so you may not be able to remember the track layout. VDC will make it harder to loose the rear end and let you focus on the lines/driving (this is your first track event,not a time attack...yet). I have been at events where people loose the rear end, try and save it, and then crash at the wall (#13 cw) on the last turn before the straight.

If you feel more comfortable and feel the car is pushing more often than not...then turn it off anytime you feel like it. No harm in leaving VDC on and turning it off later...it only takes a simple press of a button.

I highly recommend flushing brake fluid to something like Motul RBF600 or equivalent. For brake pads I think HP+ would be sufficient if you are around 2:15 +. This track does not require heavy braking and is mostly about momentum. In between hard braking zones, there is time to cool the pads off. Mainly you'll probably brake hardest at Sunset/Sunrise, maybe before lost hill, and before sweeper...I can't think of any other section where you really need to jam on the brakes.

On a short tight track like Autoclub speedway's infield...I boiled/faded my stock 08 Sti brakes in 2-3 laps...was not a fun event because I didn't plan ahead like what you are doing now.

I'm not sure if SS brake lines are needed,...I believe a stock s2000's fastest time around BW (again #13 cw) is something like 2:04 (is it Charles Ng?). Sure, it is nice to have SS brake lines...but fluid, pads and tires will do if you don't plan to track often (aside from seat time).

If you are below 2:10...you should definitely run dedicated track pads because it'll be worth it.

Brakes are a very important thing and you are on the right track planning ahead. But I also recommend taking it easy and getting instruction to learn the lines and remember to always go at your own pace.

Have fun and update us after the event...tons of pictures would be nice too


-Ray

brucelidat

Thanks for all the input.

I think the AMS pads will be good for me since it is my first time and I will probably be slow and cautious so I don't need something significantly better than stock other than being more fade resistant. I'm a beginner, not time attacking so i just want to have fun and be safe this time out. If I get more serious, I will probably try the xp8s for dedicated track pads. Then the AMS ones can stay on as normal street pads. I already ordered the Motul brake fluid and will be changing that before I go for sure.

I don't really know which track the course will use.

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Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

SPOHN

My opinion is if it's your first track event still treat it as a serious tracker. Don't half a$$ do it and don't short change it when it comes to brakes or the results will be just that. Tracking cost money. So make sure you want and can make the investment. Also consider repair cost if any thing goes wrong. I don't like to say there a such thing as a light track day. You will go fast, you will brake harder and do this repeatly for several session in a day. Protect yourself and your investment.

Brakes on the Z get hot. So SS lines, good pads(basically track pads), and fluid is a must in my book. Try not to look at it any other way except for to buy even better parts. I only state this cause I care and worry about people who track.

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ChrisSlicks

Here's my recommendation for pads, take it for what it is worth.

Stock pads: good for the street but you could destroy these on track in as little as 1 session - don't ruin a perfectly good set of street pads on the track - get track pads and keep these for the street!

Track pads: These are based on my personal experience.

Good - CL Brakes or Performance Friction - These things are almost impossible to fade, wear rate is pretty good too. Do not need to be bedded as this is a sintered compound, will destroy rotors on the street.

Not bad: Hawk DTC-70 - Takes more time to warm up and can get to a fade point towards the end of a session or sooner. Fairly predictable. Difficult to match for rear pad compound.

Poor: DS-3000/DS-2500 - Very difficult to achieve a good transfer layer, and layer gets warn away quickly if operating temperature is exceeded (along with extreme wear).

I can't comment much on the Carbotech's as I haven't driven them on this car, but they felt good on the spec Miata I drove for a session (XP10/XP8).

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

brucelidat

Some other members said the ss lines didn't improve performance or safety and were mainly a feel thing. Are you saying otherwise? Just asking because I really don't know, not challenging you or anything.

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Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

SiRay6

You're on the right track...some members who may have more experience and are probably incredibly fast/competent on track mean well when they recommend products, but some may be overkill for your driving ability.

Some track pads may not work well in the operating temps of your driving level...some are too touchy and harder to modulate for a beginner (causing you to constantly stop earlier than you intend).

Your plan sounds like a great start. Depending on which organization you're running with, usually they will indicate the configuration...like #1, #13, #25, etc. They will usually also indicate CW (clockwise) or CCW (counter clock wise). Either way, the most important fact is that you start things off slow, try and get instruction if any is provided by the organizer, try not to drive beyond your ability (trying to push harder when someone is in your rearview mirror, or trying to keep up with a faster driver).

Learn the lines, ask questions at the download meetings (if there are any), have good etiquette (always point by and only pass with point by's). Lastly, if you feel any brake fade or any issues, just pull out and inspect the car, don't keep driving/pushing the car.j

Oh yea, don't forget to do cool down laps after each session by driving around in the parking lot (BW has a big parking lot) and allow the brakes to cool before you park/stop the car. If you come out of a hot lap and park it right away, you may end up warping your rotors (ask me how I know this). Lastly, don't pull e-brake when you park after a hot lap, park the car in gear with e brake down/off.

Have fun! Let us know how those AMS pads hold up. I wish I could do a track day soon

-Ray

martin82

now the question is who has the best prices!