Brake Fade a risk for first time tracker?

vividracing · 11-28-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

At first hint of anything feeling abnormal, ease up and pit in. When mine boiled on my first track day, I went from slight squishiness to a 30foot stop from 10 mph in the pit, and I coasted all the way. When it hits, it happens quick.

I've seen this happen plenty of times. Just pay attention to the car, and you'll be ok. As Mike said, as soon as you have feel anything odd, back off and take a cool off lap if allowed. Regardless of whether or not you're allowed a cool-off lap, get back to the pits.

As far as where to purchase from... We've got a wall full of Motul

Give me a call! The info is below.

brucelidat · 11-28-2011, 06:07 PM

Motul RBF600 Synthetic DOT 4 the one I should be looking at? how much do I need? Is it necessary to change out my brake lines if I will only be tracking occasionally?

FL 4Motion · 11-28-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucelidat

What pads do people recommend for a good street/track pad? I read that track pads bite into the rotors and aren't as good for normal street driving. I am interested in a moderate 2 way pad that's good on the street and good enough, but not the best, for the track which won't eat my rotors. I will probably only track a few times a year so normal street driving would be more important. Just want to feel safe when i do track, but I am not hardcore. Also, any idea how long my stock factory pads will last before I get to change them naturally as opposed to replacing them while they're still fine?

see sig, we run carbotech xp8's. It's a good track pad if you're not a maniac on the track (mike, he's fast

), and I find them totally streetable and carbotech's have non corrosive dust, at least the xp8's seem to since no wheel damage and 4 track days and 1000's of street miles on them so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucelidat

So I should definitely change my brake fluid is the general consensus and probably pads sooner rather than later. What Brake fluid do people recommend and any pads that will perform alright on the track but won;t eat up my rotors?

motul rbf 600, forged performance lines (or any other good quality line)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Motul or brembo fluid. Brembo is slightly less expensive. For pads, carbotech xp8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Forged performance

/\

370guy · 11-28-2011, 08:26 PM

Carbotech are really good, kind of noisy though especially if your Z is your DD. Im using AMS ceramic pads and have been really happy with them so far. Great compromise between a street/track pad. Z1 carries these and they arent expensive. As for fluid, Ive used Motul in the past and had great experiences with it, never tried Brembo fluid but Im sure its all about the same stuff

martin82 · 11-28-2011, 08:33 PM

Great thread, I will also have my first track day in January on my '12 since I'm at around 1200 miles right now. I am thinking of upgrading to braided brake lines and fluid. Wear out the pads on the track and install new pads after that.

We will see how the new oil cooler on the 2012's do!

cossie1600 · 11-28-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin82

Wear out the pads on the track and install new pads after that.

So you want to kill your pads prematurely while getting no performance benefits out of it?

martin82 · 11-29-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

So you want to kill your pads prematurely while getting no performance benefits out of it?

Reason I say that, my car has 1200 miles. I would like to kill the pads before throwing them away for new pads. I think 1 track day should be fine as long as I don't push it too hard. It will be willowsprings or buttonwillow.

cossie1600 · 11-29-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin82

Reason I say that, my car has 1200 miles. I would like to kill the pads before throwing them away for new pads. I think 1 track day should be fine as long as I don't push it too hard. It will be willowsprings or buttonwillow.

pads dont rot, just keep it and use it whenever you are not at the track. there is no such thing as a dual purpose pad

Island_370 · 12-07-2011, 06:08 PM

All brakes can fade....It is simply a matter of a overheating. The best fluid with the best pads will still fade if you try to go balls deep into ever corner. You simply cannot do 100% braking into every corner. The trick is to creep up the limits for each corner. But each corner will vary based on cooling (time since last brake application), speed entering the braking zone, etc. Experience is only answer. The better the pads, the better the fluid, the higher the 100% is. Braking deep into a corner "feels" like racing, but exit speed from the corner is where more time is gained or lost. Don't destroy a corner by trying to carry 3 mph 20 feet deeper. It will usually cost you 5 mph at exit....and the entire distance after the corner.
I have fun tracking a rental car. Deep braking doesn't do it for me, maximizing apex speed and exit speed does. Neither of those need brakes. I tracked a rental at VIR and I needed a #7 braking sign for turn one, I was braking so soon. But it let me save my brakes. I still prefer a track ready car, but any time on the track is fun....

Teflon lines (or SS lines as people like to call them) they are rarely a waste, but you have to be fairly dialed into car to really notice the difference. They are just good insurance.

As for VDC...
Every time I hit a track (new or one I have +1000 miles on), I leave it on until I actual notice interfering (my previous car, I have not tracked my Z yet). As a newbie, it will save you more than it will hurt you. If you can drive smooth enough, the VDC will not be very busy.

Overall....the best advice I can give, leave your ego at home. Listen to experienced people. High performance driving and street driving require different skills. Just understand that you need to develop new skills and a new sense for the car. This learning takes time and practice.

brucelidat · 11-28-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370guy

Carbotech are really good, kind of noisy though especially if your Z is your DD. Im using AMS ceramic pads and have been really happy with them so far. Great compromise between a street/track pad. Z1 carries these and they arent expensive. As for fluid, Ive used Motul in the past and had great experiences with it, never tried Brembo fluid but Im sure its all about the same stuff

Are you referring to the AMS Carbon-Ceramic Pads 370Z/G37 Akebono/Sport Package The Z is my DD so less noisy would be better if these still perform well enough on the track. I'm not hardcore, I just want to be safe. If I end up getting really into it, pads can change. Anyone else have experience with these pads? They're looking pretty good at that price.

brucelidat · 11-28-2011, 08:34 PM

Thanks for all the good info.

brucelidat · 11-28-2011, 08:44 PM

Anyone have experience with the z1 stainless steel brake lines? I noticed they also have premium stainless steel lines, are those any better than the regular?

spearfish25 · 11-28-2011, 08:53 PM

Don't worry about stainless steel lines right now. Your focus should be pads and fluid. I track frequently and use the stock brake lines. With regard to stainless steel lines, it's a feel difference, not a performance difference. The pads and fluids are performance/safety changes that you need to address first.

brucelidat · 11-28-2011, 09:03 PM

The fluids are $40 and the lines kit w/ fluid are only $104 and $124 for regular and premium so I thought might as well since it's not much more. If they don't help in performance, though, then I guess I might not need them. What is the feel difference they provide?

370guy · 11-28-2011, 09:11 PM

yes those are the pads im talking abuot and ive been very very happy with mine so far. the initial bite is awesome! no noise and less dust than the stock pads. All around good pad for occasionaly track uses

11-28-2011, 08:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
370guy Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: knoxvile, TN Posts: 298 Drives: 370+Viper+Vette=Fast Rep Power: 14	Carbotech are really good, kind of noisy though especially if your Z is your DD. Im using AMS ceramic pads and have been really happy with them so far. Great compromise between a street/track pad. Z1 carries these and they arent expensive. As for fluid, Ive used Motul in the past and had great experiences with it, never tried Brembo fluid but Im sure its all about the same stuff __________________ - TopSpeed - Z1 - AMS - K&N - Password:JDM - Nismo - Evo-R - Megan Racing -

12-07-2011, 06:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Island_370 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 228 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z SR M6 Rep Power: 16	Here is my 2 cents..... All brakes can fade....It is simply a matter of a overheating. The best fluid with the best pads will still fade if you try to go balls deep into ever corner. You simply cannot do 100% braking into every corner. The trick is to creep up the limits for each corner. But each corner will vary based on cooling (time since last brake application), speed entering the braking zone, etc. Experience is only answer. The better the pads, the better the fluid, the higher the 100% is. Braking deep into a corner "feels" like racing, but exit speed from the corner is where more time is gained or lost. Don't destroy a corner by trying to carry 3 mph 20 feet deeper. It will usually cost you 5 mph at exit....and the entire distance after the corner. I have fun tracking a rental car. Deep braking doesn't do it for me, maximizing apex speed and exit speed does. Neither of those need brakes. I tracked a rental at VIR and I needed a #7 braking sign for turn one, I was braking so soon. But it let me save my brakes. I still prefer a track ready car, but any time on the track is fun.... Teflon lines (or SS lines as people like to call them) they are rarely a waste, but you have to be fairly dialed into car to really notice the difference. They are just good insurance. As for VDC... Every time I hit a track (new or one I have +1000 miles on), I leave it on until I actual notice interfering (my previous car, I have not tracked my Z yet). As a newbie, it will save you more than it will hurt you. If you can drive smooth enough, the VDC will not be very busy. Overall....the best advice I can give, leave your ego at home. Listen to experienced people. High performance driving and street driving require different skills. Just understand that you need to develop new skills and a new sense for the car. This learning takes time and practice. __________________ Autobahn Country Club (North and South Tracks), Blackhawk Farms, Grattan, Gingerman, Mid-Ohio, Putnam Park, Road America, Sears Point, Thunderhill, VIR and "The Ring"

11-28-2011, 08:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	Thanks for all the good info. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

11-28-2011, 08:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	Anyone have experience with the z1 stainless steel brake lines? I noticed they also have premium stainless steel lines, are those any better than the regular? __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

11-28-2011, 08:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1857	Don't worry about stainless steel lines right now. Your focus should be pads and fluid. I track frequently and use the stock brake lines. With regard to stainless steel lines, it's a feel difference, not a performance difference. The pads and fluids are performance/safety changes that you need to address first. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

11-28-2011, 06:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	Motul RBF600 Synthetic DOT 4 the one I should be looking at? how much do I need? Is it necessary to change out my brake lines if I will only be tracking occasionally?

11-28-2011, 08:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
martin82 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: los angeles Posts: 2,636 Drives: 12 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 20	Great thread, I will also have my first track day in January on my '12 since I'm at around 1200 miles right now. I am thinking of upgrading to braided brake lines and fluid. Wear out the pads on the track and install new pads after that. We will see how the new oil cooler on the 2012's do!

11-28-2011, 09:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	The fluids are $40 and the lines kit w/ fluid are only $104 and $124 for regular and premium so I thought might as well since it's not much more. If they don't help in performance, though, then I guess I might not need them. What is the feel difference they provide? __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

11-28-2011, 09:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
370guy Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: knoxvile, TN Posts: 298 Drives: 370+Viper+Vette=Fast Rep Power: 14	yes those are the pads im talking abuot and ive been very very happy with mine so far. the initial bite is awesome! no noise and less dust than the stock pads. All around good pad for occasionaly track uses __________________ - TopSpeed - Z1 - AMS - K&N - Password:JDM - Nismo - Evo-R - Megan Racing -

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