what!?

^^This

bring ur nismo! u can have someone else drive ur maxima and bring it too if u like...

If you are looking to bleed your brakes, we recommend Motul RBF 600. For maximum performance we also carry Motul RF660, ATE Super Blue and RF-650 from endless.

Haha, the Maxima is actually the track car and i wouldn't let anyone else drive it! Roll cage, custom suspension, most body panels are carbon, AP Racing brakes, etc... Not the best platform to start with, but it's unique and runs 1:28's at Streets. :)

But back on the original topic, the stock pads and lack of cooling would likely be a problem even for most people new to track driving. Nismo pads are a good dd upgrade, but i'm waiting for better options to use at the track yet still streetable.
Ferodo ds2500 do well for double duty, ds3000 are even better at the track but not very good on the street unless heated up.
EBC Yellowstuff are also good for double duty.

They are better than stock, but they all suck

DS2500 wear about as fast as stock, at least they did when I was running the 6 piston front brembo with rear sport brakes. I wasn't impressed with them on the 370Z.

I agree with. Cossie. Stock pads are good enough for most here even for spirted days. But if you are even slightly wanting to push it harder and worry about brake fade and all that you are going to have to suck it up and fork the cost for great more expensive pads. Also along with fluid and lines.

Alot of people here seem to have budgets and they want to spend there money on a wide arrange of items from styling and so on. But really concentrate on what you plan to do with your car and spend money there. You want to drive hard thenbrakes are going to be a big expense along with tires and alignments.

everyone wants a dual purpose pads, but there is really no such thing. also the z makes 300+hp, it is really fast and you need a lot of brakes. the typical ricer internet special pads are not going to work well at the track for any competent driver. i have a pdf of an article about brakes, i will post it up when i find a site that can host pdfs

Dual purpose would be XP 8's in my book. But most cant afford to track and dd on them. I actully am getting two sets for Xmas gifts. Woot. My last track event which was a two day event I wore the the c
carbotechs to about half maybe a little less. But I should get one more day out of them. Going to bed my next set on and be ready to change them out there. Amazing how friendly they were on my rotors.

do you have the base calipers?

No. I did the upgrade on my base

50% on one track weekend seems to be a lot. i can go almost 6 days on my xp10

Depends on the track also. Two days at Road Atlanta with over 5 hours worth of driving. There was three occasions I ran back to back due to they keep moving my skill level up. Plus I brake hard and very late. So I'm pretty hard on them.

any difference and recommendation on the braided ss lines and a decent pad for DD with only 4-5 track days a year?

Or am I better off swapping pads before and after?

I feel Z1 SS lines are just as great as the rest. If you get some tell them I sent you. But you are better swapping pads out. Depending on your braking habits you could get that many track days out of one set of pads. Defiantly worth it.

If you really want to the best possible performance from your brakes, you're better off swapping back n forth. If you don't want that hassle, you can always run the track pads on the street. Just expect more dust and possibly more noise, depending on the pad. As long as you don't go for a really agrrssive pad, it will still reach operating temps on the street.

As for lines, I recommend Agency Power. The price/performance ratio is great on most of their stuff. I'd do rotors before lines though if it were my car. The 370Z is new enough that your lines are still in good shape. Steel lines just give you better pedal feel and can make pedal modulation easier. The biggest improvements will be seen on older cars.

I am going to change my brake fluid and try the AMS pads 370guy recommended. If I end up getting more into it and going more often, I will think about getting the xp8s as track pads and change them out when I go.

Here is my 2 cents.....
 

All brakes can fade....It is simply a matter of a overheating. The best fluid with the best pads will still fade if you try to go balls deep into ever corner. You simply cannot do 100% braking into every corner. The trick is to creep up the limits for each corner. But each corner will vary based on cooling (time since last brake application), speed entering the braking zone, etc. Experience is only answer. The better the pads, the better the fluid, the higher the 100% is. Braking deep into a corner "feels" like racing, but exit speed from the corner is where more time is gained or lost. Don't destroy a corner by trying to carry 3 mph 20 feet deeper. It will usually cost you 5 mph at exit....and the entire distance after the corner.
I have fun tracking a rental car. Deep braking doesn't do it for me, maximizing apex speed and exit speed does. Neither of those need brakes. I tracked a rental at VIR and I needed a #7 braking sign for turn one, I was braking so soon. But it let me save my brakes. I still prefer a track ready car, but any time on the track is fun....

Teflon lines (or SS lines as people like to call them) they are rarely a waste, but you have to be fairly dialed into car to really notice the difference. They are just good insurance.

As for VDC...
Every time I hit a track (new or one I have +1000 miles on), I leave it on until I actual notice interfering (my previous car, I have not tracked my Z yet). As a newbie, it will save you more than it will hurt you. If you can drive smooth enough, the VDC will not be very busy.

Overall....the best advice I can give, leave your ego at home. Listen to experienced people. High performance driving and street driving require different skills. Just understand that you need to develop new skills and a new sense for the car. This learning takes time and practice.

7 marker at turn 1 at VIR? I was hitting the brakes a little bit before 5 on my Prius in the rain. The Z can easily do it in 5 if you have good tires and 4 if you have slicks.

Here is a good brake test article. The popular Carbotech is not listed there, I believe they will rank somewhere in the middle to lower middle of the test based on my experiences with some of those pads.

http://dc436.4shared.com/img/3nckZxe...e_Pad_Test.pdf

I was tracking a rental Dodge Charger. 4300 pounds on 195 tires = brake early!

I remember reading that article, however it wasn't great test data wise as the driver (and track) simply got faster as the day went on. The comments from the driver about fade etc. are more telling and more interesting than the raw lap times. If they had 2 days they should have reversed the running order and ran them again.

yeah i agree, but you can see the ebc stuff is not all that, ebc is an internet favorite

Because they are colorful probably.

That and the Hawk HPS. Most overrated pads?

^ yep. Hawks suck

Yeah, i like Yellowstuff so much but really wish they were Fuscia!

Not all pads are available for all applications. So often times availability dictates preference.

Is there a list of pads available for 370z sport brakes?

a real race brake shop can make you anything for not much more....

A lot of good information was shared...I'm going to give my opinion based on my reflection of what I remember about my first hpde and BW specifically.

If you are doing your first event, you may not need better pads because you may not choose to push yourself or the car that hard. But you may have some natural talent and by the end of the day you may improve significantly and shave off an incredible amount of time.

So without knowing you and your "skill" level, it is hard to recommend whether you change pads now or not. I read about the AMS pads, but since they are pretty cheap, I wouldn't expect them to be much more than aggressive street pads. But I would suggest you bring your stock pads to the track in case you need a back up.

Regarding brake pads, here is my humble opinion/experience:

- EBC yellowstuff...some racer in the Subaru circle highly recommended this for people who track...I tried it and thought it was terrible...mushy pedal, not very good bite, and did not feel it was better than HP+
- Axxis/PBR ultimates...cheap and much like HP+ not sure if they make it for the Z. More like an aggressive street pad better for auto x
- HP+ is the minimum I would ever consider for track use...I have broke/cracked a few of these as they wore down below half way point. More an auto x pad or for light track duty
- I have used Hawk blues (9012)for track and I thought it was a pretty good pad, these can be harsh on rotors so I change these out at the track.
- my friend who tracks his s2000 frequently really loves his Cobalt for street and track...not sure what model though...I can find out if you are interested..

I think Carbotech recommendations above look pretty good...I'm thinking of trying the 8's or 10's...good to switch out at the track to preserve them, but okay for street from what I've read (the 8's).

I would recommend you keep VDC on. BW (are you doing 13 cw or different config?) is a larger track so you may not be able to remember the track layout. VDC will make it harder to loose the rear end and let you focus on the lines/driving (this is your first track event,not a time attack...yet). I have been at events where people loose the rear end, try and save it, and then crash at the wall (#13 cw) on the last turn before the straight.

If you feel more comfortable and feel the car is pushing more often than not...then turn it off anytime you feel like it. No harm in leaving VDC on and turning it off later...it only takes a simple press of a button.

I highly recommend flushing brake fluid to something like Motul RBF600 or equivalent. For brake pads I think HP+ would be sufficient if you are around 2:15 +. This track does not require heavy braking and is mostly about momentum. In between hard braking zones, there is time to cool the pads off. Mainly you'll probably brake hardest at Sunset/Sunrise, maybe before lost hill, and before sweeper...I can't think of any other section where you really need to jam on the brakes.

On a short tight track like Autoclub speedway's infield...I boiled/faded my stock 08 Sti brakes in 2-3 laps...was not a fun event because I didn't plan ahead like what you are doing now.

I'm not sure if SS brake lines are needed,...I believe a stock s2000's fastest time around BW (again #13 cw) is something like 2:04 (is it Charles Ng?). Sure, it is nice to have SS brake lines...but fluid, pads and tires will do if you don't plan to track often (aside from seat time).

If you are below 2:10...you should definitely run dedicated track pads because it'll be worth it.

Brakes are a very important thing and you are on the right track planning ahead. But I also recommend taking it easy and getting instruction to learn the lines and remember to always go at your own pace.

Have fun and update us after the event...tons of pictures would be nice too :driving:


-Ray

Thanks for all the input.

I think the AMS pads will be good for me since it is my first time and I will probably be slow and cautious so I don't need something significantly better than stock other than being more fade resistant. I'm a beginner, not time attacking so i just want to have fun and be safe this time out. If I get more serious, I will probably try the xp8s for dedicated track pads. Then the AMS ones can stay on as normal street pads. I already ordered the Motul brake fluid and will be changing that before I go for sure.

I don't really know which track the course will use.

My opinion is if it's your first track event still treat it as a serious tracker. Don't half a$$ do it and don't short change it when it comes to brakes or the results will be just that. Tracking cost money. So make sure you want and can make the investment. Also consider repair cost if any thing goes wrong. I don't like to say there a such thing as a light track day. You will go fast, you will brake harder and do this repeatly for several session in a day. Protect yourself and your investment.

Brakes on the Z get hot. So SS lines, good pads(basically track pads), and fluid is a must in my book. Try not to look at it any other way except for to buy even better parts. I only state this cause I care and worry about people who track.

Here's my recommendation for pads, take it for what it is worth.

Stock pads: good for the street but you could destroy these on track in as little as 1 session - don't ruin a perfectly good set of street pads on the track - get track pads and keep these for the street!

Track pads: These are based on my personal experience.

Good - CL Brakes or Performance Friction - These things are almost impossible to fade, wear rate is pretty good too. Do not need to be bedded as this is a sintered compound, will destroy rotors on the street.

Not bad: Hawk DTC-70 - Takes more time to warm up and can get to a fade point towards the end of a session or sooner. Fairly predictable. Difficult to match for rear pad compound.

Poor: DS-3000/DS-2500 - Very difficult to achieve a good transfer layer, and layer gets warn away quickly if operating temperature is exceeded (along with extreme wear).

I can't comment much on the Carbotech's as I haven't driven them on this car, but they felt good on the spec Miata I drove for a session (XP10/XP8).

Some other members said the ss lines didn't improve performance or safety and were mainly a feel thing. Are you saying otherwise? Just asking because I really don't know, not challenging you or anything.

You're on the right track...some members who may have more experience and are probably incredibly fast/competent on track mean well when they recommend products, but some may be overkill for your driving ability.

Some track pads may not work well in the operating temps of your driving level...some are too touchy and harder to modulate for a beginner (causing you to constantly stop earlier than you intend).

Your plan sounds like a great start. Depending on which organization you're running with, usually they will indicate the configuration...like #1, #13, #25, etc. They will usually also indicate CW (clockwise) or CCW (counter clock wise). Either way, the most important fact is that you start things off slow, try and get instruction if any is provided by the organizer, try not to drive beyond your ability (trying to push harder when someone is in your rearview mirror, or trying to keep up with a faster driver).

Learn the lines, ask questions at the download meetings (if there are any), have good etiquette (always point by and only pass with point by's). Lastly, if you feel any brake fade or any issues, just pull out and inspect the car, don't keep driving/pushing the car.j

Oh yea, don't forget to do cool down laps after each session by driving around in the parking lot (BW has a big parking lot) and allow the brakes to cool before you park/stop the car. If you come out of a hot lap and park it right away, you may end up warping your rotors (ask me how I know this). Lastly, don't pull e-brake when you park after a hot lap, park the car in gear with e brake down/off.

Have fun! Let us know how those AMS pads hold up. I wish I could do a track day soon :(

-Ray

now the question is who has the best prices!

They do improve pedal feel. But I guess you really wouldnt consider that performance. But knowing there better than the OEM soft rubber lines that are prone to flex under hard braking. Plus with all the heat it would be a matter of time. Plus there only a hundred dollar upgrade from Z1. SS lines have brass fittings and one less connection point reducing possiable leaks.

i lost a rubber line on my 350 after about 18 track days, still havent recover...

Stainless lines are rubber on the inside just like an OEM, but they are stiffer and stronger. Stainless is definitely preferred as they are more durable, but don't use cheap lines or you could be in a worse place than you started - they are only as good as the crimp.

At an event this year a car had "custom" SS lines installed, however (unbeknownst to him) the lines were just slightly too short causing them to rub against the edge of the wheel in certain turns. Ever lap the wheel weights were gradually nicking through the line, and then finally cut through. Finally the driver goes for the brakes at 90 mph and the pedal goes to the floor without warning, heading straight for a tire wall. The driver did a good job of threading the needle through a not quite wide enough escape opening, but took some significant body damage in the process.

All the SS brake lines I've ran had nylon or something like that underneath the SS braids? I've had SS braided oil lines with rubber underneath, but not for brakes?

Good suggestion on checking the rubbing of the brake lines if he decides to change to SS lines later on.

I've seen SS brake lines fail at tracks/time attacks too (either Russel or Earl's)...I use to always bring an extra set of SS brake lines with me to the track just to be cautious, but never had issues thankfully.

SS brake lines are more about feel as rubber lines can flex...but since this is his first track day and his car is fairly new, I wouldn't say it is necessary now, but definitely something to consider if he likes hpde's and is going to get more into it. Regardless, a thorough inspection of the car should be done in between sessions regardless what parts/brands are used.

-Ray

Okay, officially registered for the performance driving clinic at Buttonwillow for the 17th.