Suspension problem

chii370 · 08-06-2011, 09:01 PM

Ok, recently I put on some bigger tires on the nismo, because the car was out of alignment and ruined the old ones. That being said I took her up to the shop and had the new tires put on, balanced, and the car aligned. During that time I had complete faith in the workers as they all seemed competent and accustomed to working with sports cars. But then as I watched the alignment process I got worried but kept my mouth shut, first I noticed that the 370z alignment specs they were using were for the base and sport models and they quickly told me it didn't matter "********" so I kept my mouth shut again thinking they knew what to do. Now we get into the issue, number one: the steering wheel now has to be turned a quarter of an inch to the left to make the car go in a straight line. Number two: the suspension feels loose as ****!! Normally a car will roll but this is different, it actually waves back and forth on a horizontal axis, not vertical. The best way I can describe it is to picture a dog wagging it's tail, now picture that on both ends. And it feels "floaty" and very loose, it's almost uncontrollable at anything over 80mph now because it waves around so much. WHAT THE **** DID THEY DO? does anyone here actually know anything about adjusting a suspension??? What do I do? I'm going to take it back and see if they can fix it "or get money back if they can't". Can I take it to Nissan ? Will they actually know how to fix it? Most dealerships only know how to sell there cars. It's fully adjustable, can someone give me a crash course on how to do it? Or at least a vague idea so I'm less of an idiot next time I turn my car over to a bunch of lemmings? I'm kinda freaking out, WHAT DO I DO???!!!!

chii370 · 08-06-2011, 09:23 PM

Also could someone tell me the toe, and camber settings for the 370 nismo? I only know the rear camber at -1.68 but I don't know the front or the toe in/out or any other adjustments.

kensnismo · 08-06-2011, 10:21 PM

I believe this is it. front camber -.58 caster8.17 toe 0.03 rear camber -1.58 toe0.08 search the service manuel it should be there to.

chii370 · 08-07-2011, 12:21 AM

Manual doesn say, and is that toe in or out on the front and back. He said the camber was WAY off according to the machine, I find that hard to believe with 9000 miles on the car. I don't think these guys know WTF there doing. Ideas on how to fix it are more then welcome. Until this is resolved my 40k daily driver sports car is a paper weight on wheels.

Red__Zed · 08-07-2011, 01:08 AM

Calm down, and use paragraphs. For the tracking issue, they probably didn't align to straight. Common mistake, 5 minute fix. Have them do it.

Specs are same on nismo as on the other models, so they are right on there.

Do you have a results printout you can scan in?

ChrisSlicks · 08-07-2011, 09:06 AM

Bad toe settings can definitely make your car feel floating and twitchy. Make sure they tightened everything down after making adjustments.

Do you have any aftermarket suspension parts or is it stock? There are limits to what the stock parts can be adjusted to (no front camber, limited rear camber and toe).

Here is the basic alignment specs. The Nismo is the same except it runs a little more camber (which helps chew up tires unfortunately).

chii370 · 08-07-2011, 11:44 AM

Nope, it's all stock.

Sorry about the jumbled mess of a post but I'm using an iPod because my stuff hasn't been shipped from Guam yet by the navy.

So the nismo has the same specs? I had not realized that, I was ways told/read that the nismo model had not only had stiffer coilover and dapeners but also a more aggressive camber and toe as well to make it more track worthy.

Now I understand that those adjustments can make the car feel floaty or whatnot but keep in mind it's even driving in a straight line. I will get over 80-90 and the car will literally start wagging it's tail and front all over, and there's no tire squeal so it's not breaking loose, it's the car itself moving all over on the suspension and it's almost impossible to keep it in control. If that's really toe then I'm amazed at how much of a difference that makes lol.

Red__Zed · 08-07-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

Nope, it's all stock.

Sorry about the jumbled mess of a post but I'm using an iPod because my stuff hasn't been shipped from Guam yet by the navy.

So the nismo has the same specs? I had not realized that, I was ways told/read that the nismo model had not only had stiffer coilover and dapeners but also a more aggressive camber and toe as well to make it more track worthy.

Now I understand that those adjustments can make the car feel floaty or whatnot but keep in mind it's even driving in a straight line. I will get over 80-90 and the car will literally start wagging it's tail and front all over, and there's no tire squeal so it's not breaking loose, it's the car itself moving all over on the suspension and it's almost impossible to keep it in control. If that's really toe then I'm amazed at how much of a difference that makes lol.

Toe can make all the difference in the world. The HRF I'm looking at says the Nismo uses the same specs--could be wrong though.

Toe makes a huge difference in stability. I run zero toe up front to help with turn in, and the car is significantly less stable at highway speeds than before.

If you post up your alignment sheet that might be helpful in giving advice.

ChrisSlicks · 08-07-2011, 12:36 PM

Almost sounds like they gave you rear toe-out instead of toe-in, that will make a car feel really twitchy. It's common to have toe-out on FWD cars but our cars require toe-in for mid-corner stability.

chii370 · 08-07-2011, 01:17 PM

unfortunately there is no alignment printout that was given to me, just a sales sheet/receipt.

i know the tires being oversized will also effect it but it shouldnt be too drastic of a difference when adjusting for alignment right? the new tires are 265 30 19F 305 35 19R .

how do you compensate for that? because there just going to do what the machine tells them too "within error and laziness more or less" and its assuming you have stock tire sizes.

Red__Zed · 08-07-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Almost sounds like they gave you rear toe-out instead of toe-in, that will make a car feel really twitchy. It's common to have toe-out on FWD cars but our cars require toe-in for mid-corner stability.

I don't think that you can even do that on the Z-- not enough adjustability (at least on mine)

ChrisSlicks · 08-07-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

unfortunately there is no alignment printout that was given to me, just a sales sheet/receipt.

i know the tires being oversized will also effect it but it shouldnt be too drastic of a difference when adjusting for alignment right? the new tires are 265 30 19F 305 35 19R .

how do you compensate for that? because there just going to do what the machine tells them too "within error and laziness more or less" and its assuming you have stock tire sizes.

The alignment hardware is attached to the wheels, not to the tires. Tire size shouldn't be an issue, I run the same sizes. What did you put on for tires?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I don't think that you can even do that on the Z-- not enough adjustability (at least on mine)

That's good to know. I know if the car is lowered that is most definitely the case.

cheshirecat · 08-07-2011, 02:09 PM

Always insist on a before/after printout with your alignment. If the place gives you a hard time, take it elsewhere.

It helps when troubleshooting issues like this.

Red__Zed · 08-07-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The alignment hardware is attached to the wheels, not to the tires. Tire size shouldn't be an issue, I run the same sizes. What did you put on for tires?

That's good to know. I know if the car is lowered that is most definitely the case.

I didn't experiment with the rears, I know the fronts are limited to zero toe. The rear didn't look like they could be adjusted to toe out, and most manufacturers prevent that anyway.

chii370 · 08-07-2011, 03:00 PM

They are bridgestone potenza S-04 pole position XL front and rear. I have to wait until Monday to take It back to the shop.

The only thing that should be effected by the tires sizes is the camber right? And that shouldn't make the car squirrely. So from what I'm gathering it has to be toe, or somethings loose?

08-06-2011, 09:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	Suspension problem Ok, recently I put on some bigger tires on the nismo, because the car was out of alignment and ruined the old ones. That being said I took her up to the shop and had the new tires put on, balanced, and the car aligned. During that time I had complete faith in the workers as they all seemed competent and accustomed to working with sports cars. But then as I watched the alignment process I got worried but kept my mouth shut, first I noticed that the 370z alignment specs they were using were for the base and sport models and they quickly told me it didn't matter "******" so I kept my mouth shut again thinking they knew what to do. Now we get into the issue, number one: the steering wheel now has to be turned a quarter of an inch to the left to make the car go in a straight line. Number two: the suspension feels loose as !! Normally a car will roll but this is different, it actually waves back and forth on a horizontal axis, not vertical. The best way I can describe it is to picture a dog wagging it's tail, now picture that on both ends. And it feels "floaty" and very loose, it's almost uncontrollable at anything over 80mph now because it waves around so much. WHAT THE ** DID THEY DO? does anyone here actually know anything about adjusting a suspension??? What do I do? I'm going to take it back and see if they can fix it "or get money back if they can't". Can I take it to Nissan ? Will they actually know how to fix it? Most dealerships only know how to sell there cars. It's fully adjustable, can someone give me a crash course on how to do it? Or at least a vague idea so I'm less of an idiot next time I turn my car over to a bunch of lemmings? I'm kinda freaking out, WHAT DO I DO???!!!!

08-07-2011, 09:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Bad toe settings can definitely make your car feel floating and twitchy. Make sure they tightened everything down after making adjustments. Do you have any aftermarket suspension parts or is it stock? There are limits to what the stock parts can be adjusted to (no front camber, limited rear camber and toe). Here is the basic alignment specs. The Nismo is the same except it runs a little more camber (which helps chew up tires unfortunately). __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

08-07-2011, 12:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Almost sounds like they gave you rear toe-out instead of toe-in, that will make a car feel really twitchy. It's common to have toe-out on FWD cars but our cars require toe-in for mid-corner stability. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

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08-06-2011, 09:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	Also could someone tell me the toe, and camber settings for the 370 nismo? I only know the rear camber at -1.68 but I don't know the front or the toe in/out or any other adjustments.

08-06-2011, 10:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
kensnismo Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: north tx Posts: 324 Drives: ZL-1 Rep Power: 14	I believe this is it. front camber -.58 caster8.17 toe 0.03 rear camber -1.58 toe0.08 search the service manuel it should be there to.

08-07-2011, 12:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	Manual doesn say, and is that toe in or out on the front and back. He said the camber was WAY off according to the machine, I find that hard to believe with 9000 miles on the car. I don't think these guys know WTF there doing. Ideas on how to fix it are more then welcome. Until this is resolved my 40k daily driver sports car is a paper weight on wheels.

08-07-2011, 01:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	Calm down, and use paragraphs. For the tracking issue, they probably didn't align to straight. Common mistake, 5 minute fix. Have them do it. Specs are same on nismo as on the other models, so they are right on there. Do you have a results printout you can scan in?

08-07-2011, 11:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	Nope, it's all stock. Sorry about the jumbled mess of a post but I'm using an iPod because my stuff hasn't been shipped from Guam yet by the navy. So the nismo has the same specs? I had not realized that, I was ways told/read that the nismo model had not only had stiffer coilover and dapeners but also a more aggressive camber and toe as well to make it more track worthy. Now I understand that those adjustments can make the car feel floaty or whatnot but keep in mind it's even driving in a straight line. I will get over 80-90 and the car will literally start wagging it's tail and front all over, and there's no tire squeal so it's not breaking loose, it's the car itself moving all over on the suspension and it's almost impossible to keep it in control. If that's really toe then I'm amazed at how much of a difference that makes lol.

08-07-2011, 01:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	unfortunately there is no alignment printout that was given to me, just a sales sheet/receipt. i know the tires being oversized will also effect it but it shouldnt be too drastic of a difference when adjusting for alignment right? the new tires are 265 30 19F 305 35 19R . how do you compensate for that? because there just going to do what the machine tells them too "within error and laziness more or less" and its assuming you have stock tire sizes.

08-07-2011, 02:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
cheshirecat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 1,428 Drives: N54 135i Rep Power: 292	Always insist on a before/after printout with your alignment. If the place gives you a hard time, take it elsewhere. It helps when troubleshooting issues like this.

08-07-2011, 03:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	They are bridgestone potenza S-04 pole position XL front and rear. I have to wait until Monday to take It back to the shop. The only thing that should be effected by the tires sizes is the camber right? And that shouldn't make the car squirrely. So from what I'm gathering it has to be toe, or somethings loose?