Braking problem - malfunctioning ABS

ChrisSlicks · 05-11-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I wish we had some sort of "Track" button that would switch us to a more aggressive ABS tune. I'm pretty sure Ferrari has such a system implemented within their manetino steering wheel system, but that's why they are $250k.

Anyone ever heard of a way to reprogram your ABS parameters?

In other words, I hope we find something punctual that is specifically causing the ABS to go and remain in icemode, but I have a feeling its just the system doing its job in what it is programed to think is a "complete panic stop". I can guarantee you all that the guys with GT3's out there, who have a little bit more resources than most of us do, (I said most, congrats if that doesn't include you) would have found a fix for this already if it were a hardware malfunction.

I would like to think that the ABS could be reprogrammed, but I'm 99% sure that Nissan we never do this unless a flaw can be easily reproduced under street driving conditions, and that the flaw leads to several serious accidents.

Pretty much the only hope of a cheap fix is to locate the source of the triggers and do as much as possible to alleviate them.

At some point Nissan might release a Nissan Motorsports ABS unit for race cars, but it will probably be sold with a moderate price tag and a large "for track use only" warning. The later isn't a real issue for experienced drivers.

ChrisSlicks · 05-11-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I wish we could have real time monitoring of the brake temps. Maybe we could pinpoint a temperature that causes ABS failure.

Who's gonna do it?

This weekend I have an auto-x and will be taking careful temperature measurements of rotor, caliper and brake line both front and rear after every run using an infrared thermometer. This is about as close as we can get to realtime data. At the end of a run the brakes are at peak temperature and then you idle back to your hot pit at 5 mph giving the brakes no cooling on the way there.

AP - Chris_B · 05-11-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The most notable difference besides the calipers is that the rear rotor is much smaller in comparison to stock, reducing the rear bias the stock setup has just slightly.

Not exactly. Rotor size is not the only factor in determining brake bias as the caliper piston sizing has just as much to do with it. The AP Racing systems do not move the bias forward at all.

Chris

travisjb · 05-11-2010, 03:53 PM

Let's see what Chris comes back with...

If more is needed and if the group is willing to pony up contributions, I would run this sensor (Brake Disc Temperature Sensor) connected to my traqmate and start collecting data... we might be able to get away with only 1 corner... cost a few hundred bucks

RCZ · 05-11-2010, 04:34 PM

hmm...buy a toy for travis....I'll pitch in $30

gpa7pk · 05-11-2010, 04:50 PM

subscribed

daleks · 05-11-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

It's a possibility. But in this case it would be the stock BBK (small BBK?) that was misapplied. Has anyone with base brakes experienced ice-mode?

Simply by having 'ice mode' doesn't imply a misapplied ABS situation. My point was that by having a misapplied aftermarket BBK may be making the standard situation, which is expected, worse.

ChrisSlicks · 05-11-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleks

Simply by having 'ice mode' doesn't imply a misapplied ABS situation. My point was that by having a misapplied aftermarket BBK may be making the standard situation, which is expected, worse.

In my case it got better, but there are other BBK kits that didn't fair as well.

AutoX Z · 05-11-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

^ Sounds like fade? Maybe you glazed the pad?

Sorry to go offtopic folks, but I want to get in on the fun too. Where are you all buying your Carbotech pads at?

No it wasn't brake fade. The brakes were fine all day and the amount of pedal travel/effort required to stop the car never changed the ABS just started engaging well before it should have. What doesn't make sense to me is if it was a straight programing problem the ABS would go into ice-mode from the first stop. The fact that it also seems to be temperature related is very puzzling

gpa7pk · 05-11-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

^ Sounds like fade? Maybe you glazed the pad?

Sorry to go offtopic folks, but I want to get in on the fun too. Where are you all buying your Carbotech pads at?

Go directly to Carbotech - Carbo Tech, Inc.* - they have our pads in stock, can offer a pad bedding service so that you just install their pads and go (I haven't installed mine yet). They are very responsive with fast and reasonable shipping.

sig11 · 05-11-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpa7pk

Go directly to Carbotech - Carbo Tech, Inc.* - they have our pads in stock, can offer a pad bedding service so that you just install their pads and go (I haven't installed mine yet). They are very responsive with fast and reasonable shipping.

I think you mean Carbotech Performance Brakes

cossie1600 · 05-11-2010, 06:45 PM

THMotorsports has it at like a 5 or 10% discount, they just drop ship theirs I think.

RCZ · 05-11-2010, 06:53 PM

^ thanks, but I have a feeling you got the website wrong. I got the right one though. Here it is for anyone else interested.
http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads.asp?Make=Nissan

XP10 all around or XP10 front /XP8 rear?

I appreciate the help folks.

spearfish25 · 05-11-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

^ thanks, but I have a feeling you got the website wrong. I got the right one though. Here it is for anyone else interested.
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Nissan Brake Pads & Shoes

XP10 all around or XP10 front /XP8 rear?

I appreciate the help folks.

Got mine from Carbotech directly too. Went with XP10 front/ XP8 rear.

I've been using them on the street as well due to laziness and reluctance to swap. I notice the rear rotors are hotter than the front after aggressive drives. I'd be reluctant to go with XP10 rear.

daleks · 05-11-2010, 08:21 PM

TiSpeed Titanium Brake Backing Plate Heat Shield Shims Improve Your Braking Performance

What backing plates are people using? If any? I'd be curious to see if these made any difference. Supposedly it keeps the heat transfer between the pad and rotor (thus fluid) at a minimum.

05-11-2010, 03:53 PM	#154 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Let's see what Chris comes back with... If more is needed and if the group is willing to pony up contributions, I would run this sensor (Brake Disc Temperature Sensor) connected to my traqmate and start collecting data... we might be able to get away with only 1 corner... cost a few hundred bucks __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

05-11-2010, 06:53 PM	#163 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	^ thanks, but I have a feeling you got the website wrong. I got the right one though. Here it is for anyone else interested. http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads.asp?Make=Nissan XP10 all around or XP10 front /XP8 rear? I appreciate the help folks. Last edited by RCZ; 05-11-2010 at 06:57 PM.

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05-11-2010, 04:34 PM	#155 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	hmm...buy a toy for travis....I'll pitch in $30

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05-11-2010, 06:45 PM	#162 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	THMotorsports has it at like a 5 or 10% discount, they just drop ship theirs I think.

05-11-2010, 08:21 PM	#165 (permalink)
daleks Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: St. Louis Posts: 424 Drives: 2011 Evo X MR Rep Power: 15	TiSpeed Titanium Brake Backing Plate Heat Shield Shims Improve Your Braking Performance What backing plates are people using? If any? I'd be curious to see if these made any difference. Supposedly it keeps the heat transfer between the pad and rotor (thus fluid) at a minimum.