Braking problem - malfunctioning ABS

spearfish25 · 03-15-2010, 08:14 PM

Let's call Nissan North America. I'm sure they'll have an upgrade for us right around the time the oil cooler TSB is issued

Excellent find on the article. So in theory, releasing the brakes and then applying more gently should fix the perceived loss of braking problem. In retrospect, do you think you guys were hammering the brakes harder/more abruptly during those times?

ChrisSlicks · 03-15-2010, 08:25 PM

Guess we just need to make love to the pedal. Unfortunately auto-x turned me into a stomper, so I'm going to have to unlearn that habit. I believe Nissan's term for stomping on the pedal suddenly is called "Active Brake Assist". The problem with this "feature" is that it boosts brake pressure beyond what the driver input, causing a full ABS lock-up regardless of what the driver was actually trying to do.

spearfish25 · 03-15-2010, 08:29 PM

As my wife always tells me:

"More technology, more problems"

...of course that line is usually used by her in reference to our computer, home theater remote control, or programmable air-conditioning controller.

ChrisSlicks · 03-15-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Excellent find on the article. So in theory, releasing the brakes and then applying more gently should fix the perceived loss of braking problem. In retrospect, do you think you guys were hammering the brakes harder/more abruptly during those times?

The Lotus issue was perceived brake loss because of the change in pedal feel. In our case the pedal feel doesn't change except that you can feel the ABS modulating.

I think hammering the brakes definitely has something to do with it in my case.

JB1 · 03-15-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

As my wife always tells me:

"More technology, more problems"

...of course that line is usually used by her in reference to our computer, home theater remote control, or programmable air-conditioning controller.

Sounds so familiar...

JB1 · 03-15-2010, 10:00 PM

on a more serious note, this thread offered some seriously interesting reading. Unfortunately I still have to do my fist track day with the Z (only 3 weeks away) so I can't offer a lot of interesting input on this ice mode issue. But it sure is a "good to know" before hitting the track. I was getting a bit worried that in addition to the oil overheating, this was another 370Z only track related issue, and I should have bought a used Elise or 911 as track toy instead, but it looks like this issue is not 370Z exclusive. Not much of a comforting thought, but still.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind being able to switch off just the ABS on the track. I have done track days with a lot less technologically sophisticated vehicles and I liked not having ABS:

Not so sophisticated Opel Kadett GSI (but lots of FWD fun, lift of over steer...)

Who needs ABS?? and no, I didn't hit the unfortunate Mazda 323 (protege) in front of me and yes I did have a flat spot on my tires after wards... :-)

I hope to have some more useful input to this tread after April 4th

ChrisSlicks · 03-15-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB1

I hope to have some more useful input to this tread after April 4th

If you have and oil cooler make sure you have high-temp pads.

travisjb · 03-15-2010, 10:53 PM

Good discussion, all.

Chris_B, appreciate you stopping by to comment. I suspect you are right and we are going to have to learn to live with this for a while. Need to get to a parking lot and test/get used to it.

Re what happened... As best I can remember, I was trail braking when the mode initiated... then I think I stomped and when that didn't respond, I tried modulating pressure. Regardless of my inputs, I had the same rate of deceleration. But I'm going to have to get to a parking lot and try to recreate to be sure. So how can we set up bumps in a parking lot?? lol

JB1 · 03-15-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

If you have and oil cooler make sure you have high-temp pads.

No oil cooler yet: oil cooler, pads, brake fluid and stainless lines are all on the schedule for this this year. This fist track day will be stock and at 7/10's. I did get the 370 intending to take it to the track every now and then, just didn't get to it last year. (working for a supplier in the car industry did not allow for a lot of free time to spend at the track last year...)

JB1 · 03-15-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Good discussion, all.
So how can we set up bumps in a parking lot?? lol

A lot of the parking lots around here have speed bumps, but I don't think you want to drive out all this way to test your brakes...

ChrisSlicks · 03-16-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB1

A lot of the parking lots around here have speed bumps, but I don't think you want to drive out all this way to test your brakes...

I think a speed bump would tear off his whole front end, LOL.

To create a small raised bump you can use carpet wire protector rolls. Just need to find a way to attach it to the pavement that won't make the parking lot owner mad. For a crack in the pavement you're just going to have to find a natural one.

RCZ · 03-16-2010, 12:41 PM

i think all you need to do is brake hard while turning and it will trigger it.

imag · 03-17-2010, 03:08 PM

Wow - disappear for a bit and this is what happens.

This is actually great news to me. It means the issue is knowable and solvable. All it takes is pulling one fuse. I don't know about you all, but I would much rather ditch ABS than have the car fail to brake when I least expect it. At least then I can blame myself if I go off.

Absolutely awesome thread guys. Thanks to all who dredged this up.

RCZ · 03-17-2010, 04:01 PM

^ I think pulling the ABS fuse will make your speedo not work. There is an ABS sensor that you can unplug that wont cause the speedo to stop working, but will still disable ABS.

pgrmstr · 03-18-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

^ I think pulling the ABS fuse will make your speedo not work. There is an ABS sensor that you can unplug that wont cause the speedo to stop working, but will still disable ABS.

Care to ellaborate on the ABS sensor? where is it?

Also, from previous posts, someone had stated that the ABS fuse a a 3 in 1, which also included VVEL, so you would need to cut just the ABS piece so the other two stayed intact....but I'm not sure.

If there is another device (fuse/sensor) that can effectively do the same thing, that would be useful!

I only autox my Z twice last year and did not encounter this issue...but the car will be HEAVILY autoxed this season on R compounds so this is of particular interest.

Additionally, as a left foot brake fan for autox, I am trying to solve the cut off of power when dragging the brake....hoping the ABS disable would solve both

03-15-2010, 08:14 PM	#61 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Let's call Nissan North America. I'm sure they'll have an upgrade for us right around the time the oil cooler TSB is issued Excellent find on the article. So in theory, releasing the brakes and then applying more gently should fix the perceived loss of braking problem. In retrospect, do you think you guys were hammering the brakes harder/more abruptly during those times? __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

03-15-2010, 08:29 PM	#63 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	As my wife always tells me: "More technology, more problems" ...of course that line is usually used by her in reference to our computer, home theater remote control, or programmable air-conditioning controller. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

03-15-2010, 10:53 PM	#68 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Good discussion, all. Chris_B, appreciate you stopping by to comment. I suspect you are right and we are going to have to learn to live with this for a while. Need to get to a parking lot and test/get used to it. Re what happened... As best I can remember, I was trail braking when the mode initiated... then I think I stomped and when that didn't respond, I tried modulating pressure. Regardless of my inputs, I had the same rate of deceleration. But I'm going to have to get to a parking lot and try to recreate to be sure. So how can we set up bumps in a parking lot?? lol __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

03-17-2010, 03:08 PM	#73 (permalink)
imag Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 446 Drives: up the wall Rep Power: 16	Wow - disappear for a bit and this is what happens. This is actually great news to me. It means the issue is knowable and solvable. All it takes is pulling one fuse. I don't know about you all, but I would much rather ditch ABS than have the car fail to brake when I least expect it. At least then I can blame myself if I go off. Absolutely awesome thread guys. Thanks to all who dredged this up. __________________ Stillen CBE, Stillen track cooler, Stillen Gen3 Intakes, B&M short shift kit

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
does everyone have this problem?	mattkim85	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	43	11-14-2009 09:37 PM
Problem after some Audio Upgrades	209Z	Audio & Video	1	06-13-2009 02:16 PM
Is there or is there not a problem with the oil cooler?	sluggoZ	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	26	03-18-2009 01:28 PM
First Drive = One Problem	dedede	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	14	12-31-2008 09:13 PM
First potential problem?	xDIEGOx	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	26	12-15-2008 12:30 PM

03-15-2010, 08:25 PM	#62 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Guess we just need to make love to the pedal. Unfortunately auto-x turned me into a stomper, so I'm going to have to unlearn that habit. I believe Nissan's term for stomping on the pedal suddenly is called "Active Brake Assist". The problem with this "feature" is that it boosts brake pressure beyond what the driver input, causing a full ABS lock-up regardless of what the driver was actually trying to do.

03-16-2010, 12:41 PM	#72 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	i think all you need to do is brake hard while turning and it will trigger it.

03-17-2010, 04:01 PM	#74 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	^ I think pulling the ABS fuse will make your speedo not work. There is an ABS sensor that you can unplug that wont cause the speedo to stop working, but will still disable ABS.