Braking problem - malfunctioning ABS

ResIpsa · 09-06-2010, 05:02 PM

Looks like you developed the missing piece to my DIY brake cooling ducts. I was wondering how you could fabricate the spindle ducts with the design of our front suspension.

Will you sell the spindle ducts separately?

And you should start a separate thread for your kit.

the_student · 09-06-2010, 06:00 PM

Very nice

travisjb · 09-06-2010, 06:10 PM

Glad you like it... I make no money off this kit and have no intention of promoting it other than to post it here and in my journal... which is done. Not sure if Chet/SRD plans to come on here and answer questions about it, and in fact he may not even offer it as a kit. If anyone is interested, suggest you contact Chet directly at the # I posted above.

ChrisSlicks · 09-06-2010, 07:34 PM

When I talked to Chet he didn't say anything definite but he indicated that he may offer it as a kit after Travis tests it out successfully. So basically we're all sitting around on our thumbs until Travis gets his butt back on track.

But please do drop Chet an email so that he knows the interest is there.

spearfish25 · 09-07-2010, 08:33 AM

Sent them an email to show some support

.

This looks like a nice solution for the fronts. However, do we need to address the rear brake cooling as well?

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Sent them an email to show some support

.

This looks like a nice solution for the fronts. However, do we need to address the rear brake cooling as well?

I haven't had any problem with the rears. Most of us are running one pad step down for the rear so that the rear doesn't lock up as easily.

Juice14 · 10-27-2013, 12:32 PM

WOW since 2010 jejeje.

just wanted to give my input in case this problem hasn't been resolved.

OK so, after reading every page on this thread Id like to make my input. Ive been to the same track over 30 times and driven more than 5 different cars. there are 2 layouts, 1) the whole track and 2) a smaller layout with tighter turns that would somewhat replicate auto X.

I went to to the track with my stock Z and experienced ice mode in the smaller layout, it was ridiculous. Didn't have any problems in layout 1.

Made some changes to the brakes, SS lines, motul 600 fluid, EBC yellow stuff pads, cooking ducts and in layout 1, the brakes are MONEY with the stock suspension. HOWEVER when I had the tein lowering springs, Ice mode came in pretty much every corner on layout number 1 (tein springs are progressive and way too soft for the track). So looking that some guys have higher spring rates in the front (18k) and Ice mode went away, I assume that the problem is in the rear like some of you have said.

Another member posted that he went with some carbotech 10 front and 8 rear and ice mode went away.

I went to the track last wee and went around layout number 1 and didn't experience ice mode (stock suspension), however yestersay, with the EXACT same set up I experienced ice mode in making stops from about 60 to 20 and 50 to 20. not just once but like 3 or 4 times.

Would it help if I go with some less aggressive pads on the rear?

I will leave my Z stock since I have another car that's for tracking only with no ABS

wstar · 10-27-2013, 01:30 PM

It's a complex issue for sure. The bottom line seems to be that the best way to trigger ice mode is to have 1-2 wheels lock up, even for a split second, when the other wheels are still spinning and have a good margin of traction just based on speed sensor inputs and whatnot. Depending on suspension and brake config, usually what ends up happening is you're getting one or both rear wheels to momentarily lock up while the front still has grip left, and that pushes it into ice mode.

The rear has that tendency to "artificially" lock up early because the stock rear calipers are just a bit oversized compared to what they really need to be, and depending on your suspension config the rear can also be a little "skippy"... by which I mean if there's ripples in the pavement under braking, the suspension might let a rear tire catch air for a split second, during which time it immediately locks up and triggers ice-mode. Hell even if the rear tire doesn't actually get free of the pavement, just the suspension response to the ripple could unload enough weight from one or both rear tires to let them lock up faster.

Biasing the brakes via pad choice definitely helps - weaken the rear pad's bite and it's less likely to do the above under heavy braking. Softening the swaybar in the rear (e.g. go less-stiff on the Hotchkis settings) can make the rear maintain better traction under braking on an uneven surface as well. Of course all this about the rear is what most of us seem to experience, but someone's car could be producing ice-mode in a totally different way (e.g. via front lockup) if their suspension/brake setup is unusual and different.

Juice14 · 10-28-2013, 02:17 PM

Where can I find the diagram for the whole braking system on our cars? I have someone who would like to take a look at it.

travisjb · 10-28-2013, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juice14

Where can I find the diagram for the whole braking system on our cars? I have someone who would like to take a look at it.

search this forum for "service manual"

cossie1600 · 10-28-2013, 04:11 PM

There is nothing to look at unless you want to reprogram the abs conputer

Shamu · 10-29-2013, 06:56 AM

Yep you can minimize but not eliminate this problem. But minimizing means not braking at threshold and being very smooth with brake modulation. In general you want pads that don't have much initial bite if you keep stock abs system. To be frank if your an aggressive corner entry braker stock z abs probably isn't going to be for you.

I wonder if Nissan has changed any of abs programming on newer cars? Or have they just left wonky abs system that came in the car initially?

travisjb · 10-29-2013, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

Yep you can minimize but not eliminate this problem. But minimizing means not braking at threshold and being very smooth with brake modulation. In general you want pads that don't have much initial bite if you keep stock abs system. To be frank if your an aggressive corner entry braker stock z abs probably isn't going to be for you.

I wonder if Nissan has changed any of abs programming on newer cars? Or have they just left wonky abs system that came in the car initially?

There doesn't seem to be much ongoing engineering on this platform at all... stark contrast vs GTR

synolimit · 10-29-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

Yep you can minimize but not eliminate this problem. But minimizing means not braking at threshold and being very smooth with brake modulation. In general you want pads that don't have much initial bite if you keep stock abs system. To be frank if your an aggressive corner entry braker stock z abs probably isn't going to be for you.

I wonder if Nissan has changed any of abs programming on newer cars? Or have they just left wonky abs system that came in the car initially?

Just so I don't read a million posts, no ones opened the fuse with the abs, vvel and power windows and broke the tab to sever the connection on the abs? Or no ones tried to install 3 separate fuses in that location? What about killing power to the abs by unplugging it?

travisjb · 10-29-2013, 10:14 PM

^ 14 pages my friend, and yes those have been covered

09-06-2010, 05:02 PM	#196 (permalink)
ResIpsa Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 564 Drives: 09 RACING HEN Rep Power: 338	Will You Sell The Spindle Ducts Separately? Looks like you developed the missing piece to my DIY brake cooling ducts. I was wondering how you could fabricate the spindle ducts with the design of our front suspension. Will you sell the spindle ducts separately? And you should start a separate thread for your kit. __________________ The Reed Law Firm; Michael Fasano VA Attorney and Counselor at Law: A Virginia Traffic, Criminal, and Family Lawyer.https://reedlawva.com/

09-06-2010, 06:00 PM	#197 (permalink)
the_student Track Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: bay area Posts: 522 Drives: '13 LE 4runner Rep Power: 17	Very nice __________________ 2009 370Z PW 6MT Base/Sport/KW/PWJDM/HKS...RIP. 2011 370Z PW 6MT Base/Sport...KW V3/HKS/TE37 SL/Clear Bra

09-06-2010, 06:10 PM	#198 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Glad you like it... I make no money off this kit and have no intention of promoting it other than to post it here and in my journal... which is done. Not sure if Chet/SRD plans to come on here and answer questions about it, and in fact he may not even offer it as a kit. If anyone is interested, suggest you contact Chet directly at the # I posted above. __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

09-06-2010, 07:34 PM	#199 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	When I talked to Chet he didn't say anything definite but he indicated that he may offer it as a kit after Travis tests it out successfully. So basically we're all sitting around on our thumbs until Travis gets his butt back on track. But please do drop Chet an email so that he knows the interest is there. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

09-07-2010, 08:33 AM	#200 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Sent them an email to show some support . This looks like a nice solution for the fronts. However, do we need to address the rear brake cooling as well? __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

10-27-2013, 12:32 PM	#202 (permalink)
Juice14 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: International Posts: 132 Drives: Red 370Z Rep Power: 14	WOW since 2010 jejeje. just wanted to give my input in case this problem hasn't been resolved. OK so, after reading every page on this thread Id like to make my input. Ive been to the same track over 30 times and driven more than 5 different cars. there are 2 layouts, 1) the whole track and 2) a smaller layout with tighter turns that would somewhat replicate auto X. I went to to the track with my stock Z and experienced ice mode in the smaller layout, it was ridiculous. Didn't have any problems in layout 1. Made some changes to the brakes, SS lines, motul 600 fluid, EBC yellow stuff pads, cooking ducts and in layout 1, the brakes are MONEY with the stock suspension. HOWEVER when I had the tein lowering springs, Ice mode came in pretty much every corner on layout number 1 (tein springs are progressive and way too soft for the track). So looking that some guys have higher spring rates in the front (18k) and Ice mode went away, I assume that the problem is in the rear like some of you have said. Another member posted that he went with some carbotech 10 front and 8 rear and ice mode went away. I went to the track last wee and went around layout number 1 and didn't experience ice mode (stock suspension), however yestersay, with the EXACT same set up I experienced ice mode in making stops from about 60 to 20 and 50 to 20. not just once but like 3 or 4 times. Would it help if I go with some less aggressive pads on the rear? I will leave my Z stock since I have another car that's for tracking only with no ABS

10-27-2013, 01:30 PM	#203 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	It's a complex issue for sure. The bottom line seems to be that the best way to trigger ice mode is to have 1-2 wheels lock up, even for a split second, when the other wheels are still spinning and have a good margin of traction just based on speed sensor inputs and whatnot. Depending on suspension and brake config, usually what ends up happening is you're getting one or both rear wheels to momentarily lock up while the front still has grip left, and that pushes it into ice mode. The rear has that tendency to "artificially" lock up early because the stock rear calipers are just a bit oversized compared to what they really need to be, and depending on your suspension config the rear can also be a little "skippy"... by which I mean if there's ripples in the pavement under braking, the suspension might let a rear tire catch air for a split second, during which time it immediately locks up and triggers ice-mode. Hell even if the rear tire doesn't actually get free of the pavement, just the suspension response to the ripple could unload enough weight from one or both rear tires to let them lock up faster. Biasing the brakes via pad choice definitely helps - weaken the rear pad's bite and it's less likely to do the above under heavy braking. Softening the swaybar in the rear (e.g. go less-stiff on the Hotchkis settings) can make the rear maintain better traction under braking on an uneven surface as well. Of course all this about the rear is what most of us seem to experience, but someone's car could be producing ice-mode in a totally different way (e.g. via front lockup) if their suspension/brake setup is unusual and different. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

10-28-2013, 02:17 PM	#204 (permalink)
Juice14 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: International Posts: 132 Drives: Red 370Z Rep Power: 14	Where can I find the diagram for the whole braking system on our cars? I have someone who would like to take a look at it.

10-28-2013, 04:11 PM	#206 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	There is nothing to look at unless you want to reprogram the abs conputer

10-29-2013, 06:56 AM	#207 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	Yep you can minimize but not eliminate this problem. But minimizing means not braking at threshold and being very smooth with brake modulation. In general you want pads that don't have much initial bite if you keep stock abs system. To be frank if your an aggressive corner entry braker stock z abs probably isn't going to be for you. I wonder if Nissan has changed any of abs programming on newer cars? Or have they just left wonky abs system that came in the car initially? __________________ Grant

10-29-2013, 10:14 PM	#210 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	^ 14 pages my friend, and yes those have been covered __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

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