Akebonos vs Upgraded BBK

spearfish25

carbon rotors

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

Josh@STILLEN

Carbon.. gets into a whole new world of cool.. wish we could do these for the 370Z.. but the cost might just be a bit out of reach for most..

travisjb

drools...

I see how it is! Steve makes all the coolest stuff for his ride! Guess I'd do the same... good on ya, mate!

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

MD-370z

Hi Guys,

Don't have many posts on the board as I'm more of a lurker than an avid poster. I have been doing many track days here in Canada, and ran into problems with my brakes on my last track day they overheated and i got quite a scare as i lost almost all my braking power. Its not cold over here so no more tracking and my main goal is to keep the car on the road in the snow ( exciting enough even with winter tires)

Been doing research on upgrading brakes, I messed up the rotors on my last even so will need to upgrade those, along with new pads and figured if im at it throw in some SS lines. looked at the pricing and saw it would be expensive since most items are expensive to ship from the US to canada.

SO got me thinking, go big or go home, looked at BBK;s and like the reviews of the AP kit. I stumbled across this thread and with stillens extra discount i might pull the trigger, but with concerns of lack of airflow, I dont want to spend the big cash for better brakes that will still overheat due to bad airflow. So basically asking people with AP's and more tracking experience if my best bet would be to get the stillen j hook rotors and xp 12,20 pads along with SS lines or go big get the bbk and never have to worry about failing brakes.

I know this is very long and there is no conclusive answer as it is all subjective, but i would really value people's opinions.

thanks in advance,
md-370z

travisjb

there are folks here that seem to be doing reasonably well with the akebono brakes for track use, so I think you can survive with these if you find a way to get air to them... but if it were me, I'd always have lingering doubts about whether they were going to hold up and with braking that's just not acceptable in my book

my opinion is if you plan to continue tracking the car regularly - get the bbk... I did more than a dozen sessions on AP Racing bbk in Arizona heat with almost no fade and no 'ice mode'... since then, I had a custom air cooling setup installed that was ~10 hours labor and about $200 in parts... I'm sure you checked it out in the link above... it seems to work

If budget becomes an issue - suggest you invest in front kit + front cooling, and do the back later... Once done, you will not have to worry about out of the ordinary brake failures... plan on getting $600-900 for your old brakes - should be able to sell them on ebay

I'm using ferodo ds300 pads btw

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

ChrisSlicks

I've tracked with the stock brakes and the AP's. The worst part about the stock brakes was that they gave you little feedback that they were about to go away, the stock pads in particular were very easy to overheat so you don't want to use those on track. With a better pad like the XP12 you will get a lot better heat tolerance and you should be able to complete your sessions without problems, but the dust seals on the Akebono's are going to be toast.

With the AP kit I have been able to torture the brakes, but a high temp pad is a must if you really press them hard. I still come into the pits with smoke coming off the brakes more often than not, so brake cooling is going to be my next priority.

I say if you really do a lot of track than it is a worthwhile investment.

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

MD-370z

wow thanks for the speedy reply, will i not run into brake bias issues if I only upgrade the front? I know most of the braking power comes from the front just want to be sure that if i were to only upgrade the front the dynamics will not change for the worse. I saw your ducting and it looks great, but Not sure if I would run with so many panels removed as my dd, So in your opinion travis your AP BBK held up well in the arizona heat without increased ducting. ( Am i safe to assume you tracked first without extra ducting or did you go straight into duct mods?)

thanks again.

travisjb

if you have an issue with too much front bite, you could switch to a more aggressive rear pad... realize this is not the most elegant solution but would hold you over for a while... again, only do this if you don't have the budget to do the rear at once with front

what I was saying is that, yes, did a dozen plus sessions with no ducting, then recently I added ducting and it has only gotten better... as I mentioned above, with the air cooling I do not see any smoke coming off the brakes after sessions... will take some temp readings next weekend and report back, but I'm confident temps are 50-100f or so lower now


also, if you haven't already read these
BBK Comparison thread: Brembo vs. StopTech vs. AP Racing
Akebonos not up to heavy track use!
AP Racing Big Brake Kit Installed!

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

Josh@STILLEN

Chris, have you talked to our brake manager (AP-Chris on the boards here) about some track-dedicated pad options? I'm under the impression if you're pushing them that hard, we have some almost-NASCAR type pads that should take everything you can throw at them. If you're not melting seals and the like, you might just need a heartier pad.

And am I missing some in-car video of your track sessions or what?? You must be wringing the crap out of your Z! LOL!

spearfish25

My Akebonos performed very well at Road America with Carbotech XP10/8 pads and RBF600 fluid. Really no problems pulling the Z down from 125mph to about 30mph in turn 5 after the middle straight. The dust boots were toast, but that's why I did the brake rebuild and posted the DIY. Worst comes to worst, I'll rebuild the brakes at the end of every season. And the project this winter will be some custom brake cooling...we'll be glassing our own scoops for our kit if there are issues running sufficient ducting from the fangs.

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

ChrisSlicks

I had tried the DS3000 that Travis uses but I destroyed them in a few sessions, just too much heat build up. I'm guessing that Travis's car is lighter and has more air going to the brakes because he has the liners stripped (before the ducting).

At this point I'm basically waiting to see if you come out with the brake ducts or if I come up with something on my own. If I can't get some ducting going then I will probably step up to the Mintex F3R.

And yes I do beat the heck out of the car on the track, as evidenced by the fact that I no longer have any letters on my front AP calipers. They curled up and then fell off getting washed.

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

travisjb

I'm probably a few hundred pounds lighter... will be running at 3100 comp weight, have been a bit heavier than that recently

Had the ds3000s on for only a few sessions before the venting was added... before that was using the mintex extreme that came with the kit... we'll see how much longer they hold up

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

christian370z

I think this thread should be stickied; a huge amount of information for those considering upgrading the Akebonos or moving to a BBK based on actual user and manufacturer knowledge.

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SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

Mike

MD-370,
While it is a bit more of a pain to swap the pads, I have been extremely happy with the performance of this kit:
Amplified Motorsport - AmplifiedMotorsport.com - performance audio auto accessories
Along with Carbotech XP12/XP10 combo and brembo fluid, with stock rear akebonos, I've had no overheating issues in up to 30 minutes of brake intensive track sessions.

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
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worldfamousz

The Akebono setup is a good brake kit overall. The one thing I do not like is the overall weight of both the calipers and the rotors. For MOST people who do light track duty, these calipers and brakes will work great. Unless you're a full on pro, I doubt you'd notice much difference between an aftermarket BBK and the akebonos with proper pad choice.

The oem pads are good for the street but I would highly recommend upgrading them to some better more aggressive pads for the track or aggressive driving. I would suggest Racing Brake 500's at the least or Endless pads we've had good luck with these.

for the rotors, Swapping out to the Racing Brake 2-piece will save you some much needed weight. the oem rotors are tremendously heavy.

The cooling on the caliper side of things is not bad at all, but could be improved for track duty. Running ducting to the CENTER of the rotors / hubs can probably benefit long track stints. Running some better fluid as well will help overall performance, I recommend MOTUL RBF600. Also, if someone comes up with a titanium backing plate shim for the pads, this can help reduce heat transfer from the pads and friction surface to the piston / fluid. We have these available for the older BREMBO calipers, but nobody has made them yet for the Akebonos. These shims are pretty standard fare on track duty GT cars as well.

So the Akebono's have good room to upgrade still, to compare to an aftermarket BBK (since most BBK kits will already come with a two piece rotor, aggressive pads, and slightly better cooling capacity due to rotor design). But for not much $ at all you can upgrade a few choice parts and have an equally matched brake system, without having to ditch the OEM Akebono kit. I wouldn't change them out if it were up to me...