Akebonos vs Upgraded BBK

RCZ · 11-17-2010, 08:21 PM

Awesome response Chris. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to buy AP's. I talked to stillen already and I may be doing it over the holiday season, who knows, hopefully they get that holiday cheer in them.

Thanks again for taking time to post on this forum.

spearfish25 · 11-17-2010, 08:34 PM

I too appreciate the thorough response. It's interesting to hear about some of the nuances behind the expensive 'big-boy brake' kits (BBBKs).

While I'd love a set of AP Racing calipers, realistically caliper selection doesn't sound like my limiting factor at the moment. Moreover, it sounds like any caliper will get fried with the current state (or lack thereof) of brake cooling on the Z. Once I address that problem, I can potentially stand to benefit from the advantages Chris described.

weiboy718 · 11-17-2010, 08:59 PM

i can't explain much about brakes but i can tell you that the AP Racing BBK comparing the Akebono's are night and day differences. These AP stop's like crazy!

Jamaica · 11-17-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiboy718

i can't explain much about brakes but i can tell you that the AP Racing BBK comparing the Akebono's are night and day differences. These AP stop's like crazy!

Good info. i didnt know that.

travisjb · 11-18-2010, 12:09 AM

Agree on the quality of Chris' posts!... you too, weiboy!

Here's the link to my brake cooling setup mentioned previously TravisJB Journal

... it seems to be working... I'll measure temps weekend after next and we'll compare to where they were pre-cooling... but I know it is working, as I'm no longer seeing smoke come off the brakes when I finish a session! lol... and no fade, no ice mode...

I was originally concerned that the tires would rub the tubing but that has been minimal and not caused any problems

And yes, they do mount directly to the OE fang locations and draw air from those points... pictures should clarify the setup, but any questions go ahead and ask here or on my journal

spearfish25 · 11-18-2010, 07:43 AM

Hey Travis, glad the ducts are working. I posted on your journal as well, but it looks like you've removed all the wheel liners, trays, etc for your weight savings. Is that the case or were they just taken off for the photos? Certainly that makes routing the hoses much easier and isn't practical for anyone who daily drives. Do you think a similar route can be taken with all the OEM pieces in place? I know another member did some chopping of his liners, but he crushed the ducts nearly 50% of their diameter to clear the wheels when turned. This has to really hinder the flow he's getting.

fuct · 11-18-2010, 09:40 AM

great post Chris from AP racing, but cant a manufacture find the savings (the -2% a year) in other facets of the process of producing the calipers? ie. modifying the indutrial engineering side to help make them more efficently?

i like my factory brakes, but i would LOVE a set of AP brakes.

keep up the good work Chris.

spearfish25 · 11-18-2010, 09:59 AM

...or provide a high quality caliper at a savings to the consumer because a manufacturer like Nissan is buying them in massive quantities?

m4a1mustang · 11-18-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuct

great post Chris from AP racing, but cant a manufacture find the savings (the -2% a year) in other facets of the process of producing the calipers? ie. modifying the indutrial engineering side to help make them more efficently?

i like my factory brakes, but i would LOVE a set of AP brakes.

keep up the good work Chris.

It's cheaper to use lower-cost materials than it is to invest the time and money into developing more efficient manufacturing processes.

To Spearfishes point, we are definitely benefiting from volume discounts. It's just very expensive to put racing-quality calipers on a (relatively) cheap production car like the Z.

AP - Chris_B · 11-18-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuct

great post Chris from AP racing, but cant a manufacture find the savings (the -2% a year) in other facets of the process of producing the calipers? ie. modifying the indutrial engineering side to help make them more efficently?

From the OE programs I've been involved with over the years, the parts supplier often quotes a little lower than they really want to be. Once the production items are all sorted out, the project usually gets handed off to "cost-down engineers". These guys/gals to nothing put pick over the bones looking for every reduction possible (materials, processing, part count reduction, efficiency in assembly and so on). Their priority is cost, not performance improvements. They must find cost reductions or their employer cannot justify having them there.

spearfish25 · 11-18-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP - Chris_B

"cost-down engineers". Their priority is cost, not performance improvements. They must find cost reductions or their employer cannot justify having them there.

Damn them!

corner3garage · 11-19-2010, 01:29 PM

There are many huge benefits of going to a quality bkk. You have the advantages of better forging, monoblock(if you decide to go that route), higher rigidity, thicker rotors, and bigger pads. All of these add up and make the braking a lot more consistent, powerful and reliable.

spearfish25 · 11-19-2010, 01:53 PM

Sounds good. I'd love to upgrade but the price would lead to divorce for me. I'd still venture that a Z with Akebonos and brake ducting will stop better and more consistently than a Z with no ducting and a BBK. Ducting AND a BBK....pure braking bliss.

Mike · 11-19-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corner3garage

There are many huge benefits of going to a quality bkk. You have the advantages of better forging, monoblock(if you decide to go that route), higher rigidity, thicker rotors, and bigger pads. All of these add up and make the braking a lot more consistent, powerful and reliable.

I hate my monoblock brembos. Its a major pain in the butt to change brake pads. Have to remove the caliper to do so. However, for the front upgrade using stock rotors, the price can't be beat.

travisjb · 11-19-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Sounds good. I'd love to upgrade but the price would lead to divorce for me. I'd still venture that a Z with Akebonos and brake ducting will stop better and more consistently than a Z with no ducting and a BBK. Ducting AND a BBK....pure braking bliss.

I attest to the braking bliss!

Will say that I drove a ZR1 at chuckwalla raceway the other day and the braking was from the gods!... I can only imagine what a set of those carbon rotors costs! ouch

11-17-2010, 08:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	I too appreciate the thorough response. It's interesting to hear about some of the nuances behind the expensive 'big-boy brake' kits (BBBKs). While I'd love a set of AP Racing calipers, realistically caliper selection doesn't sound like my limiting factor at the moment. Moreover, it sounds like any caliper will get fried with the current state (or lack thereof) of brake cooling on the Z. Once I address that problem, I can potentially stand to benefit from the advantages Chris described. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

11-18-2010, 12:09 AM	#20 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Agree on the quality of Chris' posts!... you too, weiboy! Here's the link to my brake cooling setup mentioned previously TravisJB Journal ... it seems to be working... I'll measure temps weekend after next and we'll compare to where they were pre-cooling... but I know it is working, as I'm no longer seeing smoke come off the brakes when I finish a session! lol... and no fade, no ice mode... I was originally concerned that the tires would rub the tubing but that has been minimal and not caused any problems And yes, they do mount directly to the OE fang locations and draw air from those points... pictures should clarify the setup, but any questions go ahead and ask here or on my journal __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

11-18-2010, 07:43 AM	#21 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Hey Travis, glad the ducts are working. I posted on your journal as well, but it looks like you've removed all the wheel liners, trays, etc for your weight savings. Is that the case or were they just taken off for the photos? Certainly that makes routing the hoses much easier and isn't practical for anyone who daily drives. Do you think a similar route can be taken with all the OEM pieces in place? I know another member did some chopping of his liners, but he crushed the ducts nearly 50% of their diameter to clear the wheels when turned. This has to really hinder the flow he's getting. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

11-18-2010, 09:59 AM	#23 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	...or provide a high quality caliper at a savings to the consumer because a manufacturer like Nissan is buying them in massive quantities? __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

11-19-2010, 01:29 PM	#27 (permalink)
corner3garage The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 9,879 Drives: 240sx, 350z, 370z Rep Power: 35	There are many huge benefits of going to a quality bkk. You have the advantages of better forging, monoblock(if you decide to go that route), higher rigidity, thicker rotors, and bigger pads. All of these add up and make the braking a lot more consistent, powerful and reliable. __________________ Corner3motorsports.com

11-17-2010, 08:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Awesome response Chris. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to buy AP's. I talked to stillen already and I may be doing it over the holiday season, who knows, hopefully they get that holiday cheer in them. Thanks again for taking time to post on this forum.

11-17-2010, 08:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
weiboy718 Track Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bay Area Posts: 923 Drives: Infiniti G37 Rep Power: 16	i can't explain much about brakes but i can tell you that the AP Racing BBK comparing the Akebono's are night and day differences. These AP stop's like crazy!

11-18-2010, 09:40 AM	#22 (permalink)
fuct A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sugar Land Posts: 3,692 Drives: 97' Ranger :) Rep Power: 24	great post Chris from AP racing, but cant a manufacture find the savings (the -2% a year) in other facets of the process of producing the calipers? ie. modifying the indutrial engineering side to help make them more efficently? i like my factory brakes, but i would LOVE a set of AP brakes. keep up the good work Chris.

11-19-2010, 01:53 PM	#28 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Sounds good. I'd love to upgrade but the price would lead to divorce for me. I'd still venture that a Z with Akebonos and brake ducting will stop better and more consistently than a Z with no ducting and a BBK. Ducting AND a BBK....pure braking bliss. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

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