ARK PERFORMANCE INC: DTP Coilover Systems For the 370z

HATED1

wow, CFZ you have made good points, but you should let TeamARK put out out their product and let the people, (hopefully someone as knowledgeable as you) review them before we put them in the deep end of the pool. I am glad that more companies are taking the time to give the 370z more options.

CFZ

I totally understand. But its the claims that are made that are slightly upsetting.

The reviews are going to be good. I've never seen a bad review on a purchase before unless something terribly wrong happens. So even reviews have to taken with a grain of salt. I know that some of the users don't even know what good coilovers feel like. But they do make the manufacturer money.

Anyways that is besides the point I don't mean to be offensive in any way. I just wish the description was more informative tis all, like if they did anything different with the valving or the advantages of the specs or something. And not put down other coilover companies (or even worse the origin of manufacturing), nothing can have the best of everything. So in other words if there are options out there then its something we get to choose for a reason (one may be more comfortable than the other, and one can be a better track setup).

Words like better, smoother, better quality, comfortable is extremely subjective.

CFZ

I only stated this because ARK is claiming that Korea has better quality control than China or Taiwan.

It's funny you claimed Apex because Apex coils arent made in japan either, I heard they were made in Korea, but now in Taiwan(BC). Donno about the S1's though, those could be from Japan. I don't get coilovers from manufacturers that make all kinds of different products. Suspension needs a lot of R&D in itself. Unless maybe HKS and Cusco. I always like HKS and Cusco, they're an exception to me.

wishihadnav

yeah i agree but who knows if quality control is any better or worse really..these are sub 1k eco struts were talking about here so i dont expect them to perform like JRZ's or Motons anyway...apexi struts use to be made in japan but outsourced a few years back with their exv line...i had the N1's..

TeamARK

Just to start this post off, i want to say that these are very good questions and I do not feel negative in any way towards your comments and opinions.

First I wanted to start by saying that you have it backwards. Quality control in Korea can be just as questioned if not worse than Taiwan and China. I can show tons of examples. but here is one
JIC Magic suspension is made in Korea,
I Broke My JIC Not So Magic Strut - NASIOC
Now this is the only brand that I have ever seen this happen to.
Not even cheap megans or BC.

JIC is made in Korea, however ARK still produce at our manufacturing facility. Also, in any case whether it be JDM or NOT, defects are bound to happen. In any company no matter how reputable, we calculate the chances of defects in each batch.

No point in generalizing the way you are about Taiwan and China. I own a tool import export and manufacturing. I have tried to relocate our manufacturing facility to asia, I started with korea, but even with our management and business plan with only labor being done for some reason the products would come out skewed. Now I have it in Taiwan, this was several years back but then again. Again this judgement can be offensive to people. Not that I care much Im as white and redneck as can be. LOL.

Understood and a reasonable generalization.

ARK Coilover?? - Page 7 - MY350Z.COM Forums
It doesn't seem like you know much about suspension in general. And how do you revalve and rebuild in house without a shock dyno. It doesn't make sense.
I'm sure it will take you a while to come up with dyno sheets as well.

The dyno sheet is on page 5 on the same post.

I can tell you this, just looking up shim specs and gas specs and rebuilding never will give consistent numbers. I can bet that all four corners of your coilover system has different dyno numbers.

This is true with all gas compression shocks. There are too many variables for each shock will produce the same #'s. That is why we have to pay attention to other variables that we can control. Springs rates, Build quality, and materials uses so that it can be as consistent as possible.

As for quality- If you think just because they are not going to snap on us while we are driving means that they are quality, then your definition and ours are completely different. In fact everything you stated over in your description explains exactly what your coilovers are.... generic.
Everything you claim is just blind statements.



You can see the difference in build quality. this is for the S2000 coilovers, Megan also can be bought for 800 dollars and they have a one piece aluminum bracket, and Yours on the other hand is a helded bracket, which part of this is higher quality.

Finally this improvement in handling without sacrificing comfort. What does that even mean?

We take KW as a good benchmark of a successful coilover company. They did an excellent job creating a good set of shocks that improves handling without having them too stiff.

I remember back just 2 years ago when people thought stiffer was better. Then consumers started to educate themselves by doing some research. The ideal coilover is to have the tires planted to the track at all times. This is where the compression and rebound comes into play. If the shocks are too stiff, it will start to skip around.

I do thank you for your input on this and hope that we will be able to show you and the community just how well our units perform.

Alex

wishihadnav

i think the smoother/comfortable comment is ARK's way of saying these are street friendly coilovers...not as aggresively valved?..

CFZ

OK that is really hard to read.
But ok
Of course any company has a margin for defects. Any company would try to keep their margin of error as small as possible. Your one word answer is really hard to understand what is a reasonable generalization. That is not why i brought up this comment though. I believe I made my point fairly clear.

Even though I am not that big of a fan of KW ok we can use your KW example. The reason why they are a good benchmark is because they are a company that does a good amount of R&D per application. They don't just mass produce shocks and fit on different top mounts and bottom brackets to make the shocks fit a certain application. Which I have a good feeling your company does.

And your little theory about stiff suspension and what not is very unclear. I can almost say its wrong. They are not valved softer in any way. In fact they are just as stiff as any perfomance coilovers. The main reason they would feel more compliant than most other coilovers is because they have a different high speed valving than most other coilovers.

In fact it would almost be physically impossible for your coilovers to achieve considering it is a monotube setup unless you want to deal with cavitation (which is worse). Monotube coilovers are under much higher pressures and therefore cannot be set anywhere near as low of a high speed bump than a twin tube would be. THis is the reason why KW coilovers are all twintube. (and this is also the reason why I am not a fan)

Now their low speed bump setup is just as or even higher than what is available in most markets right now. Also KW is against changing out spring rates because they believe all of this can be done with valving. They are one of few companies that I know of that can revalve a twin tube units considering twintubes are normally cartidge units. In other words unless your coilovers were twin tube in which the first post you posted already says its a 50mm piston mono. Then there is no way you going to get anywhere near the compliance of KW. Which is your benchmark correct?

2 years ago when people said stiffer was better was obviously people that have no clue about suspension, the theory has never changed. Being stiff to normal drivers is probably the simplest thing they can feel on the streets (no body roll). In basic simplest suspension tuning stiffness of suspension to the tires are reliant on the stickiness of tires that you would run on your vehicle, . Now yes too stiff of suspension can totally outdo your tires. Now the reason why I say to the tires is because obviously stiffness of suspension can relate to a ton of different things. For example a heavier car would need stiffer spring rates. Also a double wishbone would need stiffer spring rates than Macpherson. That would not be considered stiffer suspension to the tires. (again there is obviously a lot more to it than stickiness of tires, it's the basic suspension tuning for beginners)



I suggest you learn a bit more about suspension before you promote your product. And get your sales pitch to make more sense.
It just makes your company look bad.

TeamARK

Thank you for educating the general public about how high speed valving function. It seems like you have a lot experience in coilovers in general, yet you opt for replacement oem springs.

I believe the next step you should take before you make any more educated assessment, is to try some of the coilovers out there in the market first.

Im not say buy ours, but try other manufacturers and then make a proper assessment. You may have had some of these coilovers on your prior vehicles but as you may know, every model is different. If you do not take this next step, then everything that you said just become words.

I for one, have driven many 370z with Stance, BC, ARK, and KW's. Therefore, whether my words may be biased or not I know the differences between the 4 coilovers.

Lastly, I would like to thank you for your input. It was needed and we will work harder to bring the standard for "generic" coilovers to a respectable level.

Alex

CFZ

LOL.. I like the background research you did. And yes, good products are good products. And is there a problem with OEM replacement springs? I am a huge fan of Swift Springs, I have tested all kinds of different springs on the market and nothing tops it. Ive used Hipercoils, Eibach, integra, Afcoils and they dont get anywhere as durable or consistent as the Swifts. I have their coilover springs on all of my coilovers. The 370Z is a brand new daily driver for me, I don't see a point in putting coilovers in. I already have several track cars and I have the equipment to do everything I need to with suspension.

In fact if you were to give me one of your shocks I have a roerhig dyno in my garage along with a spring dyno as well. I have my own business but I do a lot of suspension tuning in the asphault late model market as well as a few formula cars, drag racing, and just simple touring cars. I revalve and rebuild shocks. Def not something you can make a living out of so you can call it a hobby if you'd like.
But I do a lot of different shocks like penske's, bilsteins, and JRZ's. And I also do work with several bigger teams.

Everything I said so far is an educated claim. I am just simply saying everything you are saying is unclear. I have my own shock dyno and frankly I dont see how you can even revalve your own coilovers in house without one. So your telling me that if I want to change the rates on my coilovers I have to send it to you and trust that you did it right when they are returned to me. Because without dyno sheets a revalve means nothing. I see the dyno chart on page 5 of the 350Z forum from a third party, but it's only one front and one rear.

I've tested out almost every coilover in the market, but not by feel, like you do yourself. Sitting inside a 370Z with different coils again means nothing. None of that is hard data. In fact for all I know your unbiased judgement can be all placebo effect. I have hard data on a good amount of coilovers and shocks. And of course I have driven on them as well. Not specifically for the 370Z but for S2k, Evo, Subarus and a few BMW here and there. This isn't to test out how good a coilover is for a specific car. It is to see how well a shock performs in general.

In fact I think the next step for you is to make educated asessments.
- if your going to talk about Taiwans or chinas lack of quality control, give me data.
- If your going to say your coilovers are performance oriented without sacrificing comfort, give me data
- If your going to say that your coilovers are higher quality than the other cheaper brands out there, give me data.
- if your going to claim that coilovers are automatically better than lowering springs, give me data.

I wonder if you even read what we have written so far. Nothing I have said is just words. I have pulled out pictures to show quality from simple google images. Now I havent made any other claims or anything. I never said your product sucks, I have just asked questions, but your responses...... hmmm...... doesnt make sense.

Nothing is concrete with you guys so far. Lets hope this changes.

TeamARK

thank you, once again.

CFZ

np buddy.

fuct

I concur!

TeamARK

updated

TeamARK

fuct

purdy colors!