I love my old AP setup. I never noticed the "less" braking issue in the rain though. Then again, the pads I used was not the Ferodo ones that came with the system but a custom aftermarket that's suitable for street + occasional track.

AP has always been my favorite set of brakes. If I'm to built a full track car, AP would be my number one choice. I've beaten my current Rotora setup around the track couple times and they held up wonderfully. But I'm not a true track junky nor really push myself to the car's max limit so may be I will never experience the brake's full potential.

There are many other companies out there that makes BBKs. Let's face it, it's similar to coilovers. A big company may spend tons of money into R&D. Then the mass production is being done by CM in Taiwan or China. What's stopping them from copy / reverse engineer the blue prints and mass produce under a different name, or under the "generic brand". It's a hit and miss where you may end up with the "identical" system (same quality and such) for less price than the real company, or you may end up with less quality products made by cheaper materials.

AP 6+4 here! Love them
going to the track next week @ L.V.
I'll let you guys know it is:tup:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../sema09php.jpg

I'm not sure it was the pad but it could be I suppose. The brakes felt a little squishy for a second and then all of a sudden you would get some bite and the pedal firmed up. Was very heavy rain, will have to try again in lighter conditions.

welcome Kevin, glad to see you over here!

Thanks Mike, I'm more like a lurker here :hello:

I've noticed the same thing in every car I've ever driven in heavy rain with either OE brakes or with upgrades. It may possibly happen more with a BBK as many require splash shield removal or modification, but I have not noticed much difference. It is always good practice to test the pedal before it is needed when there is a lot of water on the road.

This is why several Mercedes-Benz models (and probably others) have a feature that occasionally induces brake system pressure when the windshield wipers are on. Doing this allows the pads to "rub off" the water on the rotors every now and then to help keep them dry.

Chris

Chris, Good to know. The only other time I had driven the OEM brakes in heavy rain was on an auto-x course, so of course your tapping the brakes every few seconds and there was no problems. And I have experienced it in a minor fashion with previous cars I've owned, it just seemed worse.

The AP racing install didn't require any modification to the front splash shield and only an extremely minor trim to the edge of the rear splash shield so I don't think that is a significant factor.

I know BMW touts a similar system for some of their cars, when the wipers are on it presses the pads gently against the rotors to keep them swept.

I think I have to correct you there sir..... Phatboy Brakes is my company and I can tell you categorically that I have never approached yourself or any other companies offering to put your logo on my calipers if you buy 10 sets. Seems like you're working for a rival brake manufacturer trying to put customers off my products, if that's the case the chances are that your brakes are also made in Taiwan, as D2, XYZ, Stoptech, and most other large performance brake brands are. Infact most of them are actually made in the same factory that produces my brakes.

In regards to the lack of testing and inferior materials being used to manufacture such brakes, would you like to divulge to what you are basing such accusations on? I'd love to see you back these claims up. Take a look at my feedback:

eBay UK Shop - Phat Boy Performance Brakes: Brake kits, Calipers, Discs
100% positive feedback so far, so seems like people who have actually bought my brakes and have something to base their opinion on are pleased with the product. Anyway, check out my wesite for cheaper prices than e-bay:

PhatBoy Brake Kits

Many thanks

Dan Newton

Hello sir,

i like the wheels. are they 20"? will the tires rub the fenders?
what offset are front and rear?

Thank you for your information.

pshhh.....shamlessplug :p

Mr. Newton,

I don't see any way we will agree on this, but I've seen these (and the other Far East competitors) up close and in person at SEMA and elsewhere. They may or many not have had the same logo, but the tooling they are made from is recognizable. No, we have not been approached by anyone from your label, but I continually receive communication/spam from that factory and other similar ones. So, if I choose to wire some money over, I will be competing with your brand with essentially the same components under a different label in just a month or two (but I get to pick my colors!). I'll pass.

While it can be a good indication of customer service, positive feedback on eBay has nothing to with testing in a demanding environment such as professional racing. What I wrote is certainly a generalization of what I have seen in my experience. Not all points may relate directly to your particular product line, but I have not seen anything to disprove them as of yet. I am always open to learning something new and do respect the ingenuity in the market, so I will continue to evaluate new products as they come out. The market generally reserves respect for those who earn it, and this takes time -- lots of it. Just calling up one of the copycat factories (we know who they are) and ordering product does not qualify a brand in the eyes of most.

If you care to do a little research, you will find that AP Racing and Stillen components are NOT made in the Far East. AP is located in England and controls all aspects of their manufacturing and supply chain. AP's history goes back almost 100 years to the days of the original Automotive Products, LLC, company. They have been involved (officially) in the highest level of motorsports for nearly 40 years -- including 651 F1 wins as of last weekend. "PhatBoy" has --- how many? 87% of NASCAR teams use AP Racing brakes with ZERO sponsorship -- they must pay around $30k per car set for them (with no pads, lines, fluid, hardware, etc.). Are any of the remaining 13% secretly running "PhatBoy"?

Stillen is located in Southern California and has been involved in performance brake solutions for over 20 years, being the company that first brought Brembo to the North American aftermarket. Stillen has complete in-house engineering and manufacturing capabilities as well. It is important to understand that Stillen is an engineering partner to AP Racing and not simply a distributor piecing brake kits together, which is why you won't find AP Racing kits on eBay. The Brembo Group, parent company to both Brembo and AP Racing brands (although run entirely separately) does have two plants in China for OE programs for Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru and others (not the high-end Gran Turismo aftermarket or racing lines), but AP has no manufacturing there or in Taiwan. I'm afraid there is no involvement between Stillen and/or AP Racing with your company as you boldly claim.

Best of luck to you sir,

Chris Bernal
STILLEN/AP Racing USA

Dear Mr Bernal,

First of all.... Woah there cowboy!! would you like a ladder to get down from that high horse you're sitting on? We all know what AP has done and what they've won. I've never claimed to have won anything or have any racing pedigree. There's no need to get defensive, nobody is doubting the quality or preformance of your brakes. We aren't even in the same market my friend, not everybody has got $30k to spend on a set of brakes, so they will come to someone like me instead. Someone offering reasonably priced good quality kits for road and trackday use.

Another point to make is that I never claimed any association with AP racing. I didn't even know who you were until you replied to my post. I merely said "the chances are your brakes are also made in Taiwan". Which I think is a fair point, as I'm sure you'll probably agree with your vast experience in the market that most brands on the market now are made in the far east. And you say you've received spam from "that" factory, how do you what factory I use? It seems like you follow the concept of "guilty until proven innocent", like you said you've never tested or even seen my brakes in person, so I would say it is you that is making some bold claims sir.

You also say you do respect the ingenuity in the market. From what you've written here so far I'm not seeing much respect, all I'm seeing is you blasting other companies, without any hard evidence to back up your unfouded claims. I would have expected more from a company with such pedigree that demands respect than employing dirty marketing tactics by cruising forums denouncing smaller companies like myself. I thought you wouldn't need stoop so low.

Oh, and by the way, if care to do a little research youself and actually looked at my products you would find that I also get to choose the colours. So if anyone here doesn't have $30K to spend on a set of AP Brakes, and want a good quality kit available in a variety of colours and rotor designs you know where to find me:

phatboybrakes.com

or e-bay shop - Phat Boy Performance Brakes

Many thanks

Dan Newton

Very nice! That car keeps getting better looking with all the subtle changes. Looking forward to hear some testing feedback.

Chris

Well we're not driving NASCAR's here. The interesting thing is that the offerings from AP and Brembo for our cars cost little more than yours. To me that's a no brainer.

They're 3 times the price mate.