Coil-overs and mechanical stress?

Rusty · 12-02-2019, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyonara91

Nothing beats looking at a car hitting and apex while going over these things. The sheer mechanical grip and ingenuity coupled with the drivers focus is something to respect and behold.

Great picture.

Videos in slow motion are great.

MaysEffect · 12-03-2019, 12:09 AM

The issue isn't all out failure of the mount, but bending and warping of the mounting structure and frame. The long term damage will be seen in misalignment errors and constant alignment issues. There are similar issues in VW and Mercedes when people lower there cars with improper spring rates and the wrong bump stops for the ride height change. The G37 actually has had problems with mount failures even with non "true" type coilovers, constant bottoming out has led to some cars warping the panels and causing horrible alignment issues and wobbling under normal driving conditions. I've seen that bolts will shift in the subframes and extra wear in bushings, but most notably is the alignment problems and weird wobbling. I can't speak for the Z. As some have stated, there is know notable issue.

The benefits however for track usage out weighs these negatives IMO, considering you should be checking your alignment frequently and making sure your shocks are in good working order. The other part to ensuring more safety is putting on bigger tires to absorb more impact. Years back when teams were running the Z in Pirelli and Continental challenge, teams were running 18's with massive tire profiles...youuuu should probably do the same.

Also note, you will be compounding the issue if you move away from Rubber/soft poly bushings in your suspension linkages and subframe. When you bottom out your shock on bumpstops, a lot of the force is transferred through your tires & bushings before they actually fully compress the shock and punch dents and hard force into the frame. So bottoming out and bashing bumpstops isn't all that bad within itself. It's when you start eliminating absorption throughout the entirety of the suspension system. Tuning bumpstops may add a level of protection if you know you are going to be extra rough. But ultimately just making sure you have the right springs for your intended ride height is the most important factor, followed by properly sized sway-bars so that the weight is shifted properly under extreme bump.

BettyZ · 12-03-2019, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

That's my concern too, and pictures of BMW shock tower failures scarred me for life.

I think mine maybe the only non-caged Z34 that has strengthened rear shock towers after the "true-type" conversion. Others that have strengthened the rear shock towers are all byproduct of roll cages.

But like others have said, we have not heard of any shock tower failures, in the Z34 circle nor the heavier G37 coupe and sedan side of things.

Oh haaaaay!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

BettyZ · 12-03-2019, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

That's my concern too, and pictures of BMW shock tower failures scarred me for life.

I think mine maybe the only non-caged Z34 that has strengthened rear shock towers after the "true-type" conversion. Others that have strengthened the rear shock towers are all byproduct of roll cages.

But like others have said, we have not heard of any shock tower failures, in the Z34 circle nor the heavier G37 coupe and sedan side of things.

"I can't hide how fabulous I look!!"

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

cv129 · 12-03-2019, 12:25 AM

Rusty · 12-03-2019, 12:32 AM

I'm calling BS on some of this. With the Z. ALL of your suspension points are on the sub-frame. The only point not on the sub-frame is the upper shock mount. Even if the shock tower deflects. It will not change the alignment. The only way it would change, is if you put the shock through the tower. Then you would have a change in ride height on one side.

When the Z was in Pirelli and Continental Challenge. Those tires that they ran. Was the spec tire that they had to run according to the rules. They was limited on what sizes they was allowed to run.

saywat? · 12-03-2019, 02:10 PM

^ those are not pics of nissan z's if thats what you thought

Zyonara91 · 12-04-2019, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Videos in slow motion are great.

YES! When you take that turn hard and that one tire is in the air moving SUUUPEEERRRR SLOWWWW, spinning, spitting rocks and dirt. MUAHAHAHAH! Love it.

12-03-2019, 12:09 AM	#17 (permalink)
MaysEffect Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 383 Drives: Infiniti FX35 Rep Power: 36	The issue isn't all out failure of the mount, but bending and warping of the mounting structure and frame. The long term damage will be seen in misalignment errors and constant alignment issues. There are similar issues in VW and Mercedes when people lower there cars with improper spring rates and the wrong bump stops for the ride height change. The G37 actually has had problems with mount failures even with non "true" type coilovers, constant bottoming out has led to some cars warping the panels and causing horrible alignment issues and wobbling under normal driving conditions. I've seen that bolts will shift in the subframes and extra wear in bushings, but most notably is the alignment problems and weird wobbling. I can't speak for the Z. As some have stated, there is know notable issue. The benefits however for track usage out weighs these negatives IMO, considering you should be checking your alignment frequently and making sure your shocks are in good working order. The other part to ensuring more safety is putting on bigger tires to absorb more impact. Years back when teams were running the Z in Pirelli and Continental challenge, teams were running 18's with massive tire profiles...youuuu should probably do the same. Also note, you will be compounding the issue if you move away from Rubber/soft poly bushings in your suspension linkages and subframe. When you bottom out your shock on bumpstops, a lot of the force is transferred through your tires & bushings before they actually fully compress the shock and punch dents and hard force into the frame. So bottoming out and bashing bumpstops isn't all that bad within itself. It's when you start eliminating absorption throughout the entirety of the suspension system. Tuning bumpstops may add a level of protection if you know you are going to be extra rough. But ultimately just making sure you have the right springs for your intended ride height is the most important factor, followed by properly sized sway-bars so that the weight is shifted properly under extreme bump. cv129 and Spooler like this. Last edited by MaysEffect; 12-03-2019 at 06:22 PM.

12-03-2019, 12:25 AM	#20 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,237 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	BettyZ likes this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

12-03-2019, 12:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,220 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	I'm calling BS on some of this. With the Z. ALL of your suspension points are on the sub-frame. The only point not on the sub-frame is the upper shock mount. Even if the shock tower deflects. It will not change the alignment. The only way it would change, is if you put the shock through the tower. Then you would have a change in ride height on one side. When the Z was in Pirelli and Continental Challenge. Those tires that they ran. Was the spec tire that they had to run according to the rules. They was limited on what sizes they was allowed to run. JARblue, Hotrodz and BettyZ like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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12-03-2019, 02:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
saywat? Base Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: us Posts: 14 Drives: g37 soon Rep Power: 9	^ those are not pics of nissan z's if thats what you thought