Holy Understeer!

Rusty · 07-13-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Show off!!!

This is a great place to start and works well for a dual purpose track and street car that sees some twisty road time. If you are just dd the car there is nothing wrong with having front camber at -1.0 to -1.5 to extend tire life and if you want to maximize straight line speed....well that's a whole other story.

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Tractionless · 07-16-2018, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Front 1/16" toe in.
Rear 1/16" toe in.
It's a bit nervous.

What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

Rusty · 07-16-2018, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless

What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard.

igota21incher · 07-16-2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless

What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

How is that even possible? No understeer?

Hotrodz · 07-17-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igota21incher

How is that even possible? No understeer?

You just go straight and then make a granny turn to the left or right!

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Tractionless · 07-19-2018, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard.

Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.

Hotrodz · 07-19-2018, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless

Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.

You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.

igota21incher · 07-19-2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.

This.

JARblue · 07-19-2018, 02:17 PM

My old Accord coupe (FF of course) would understeer like hell at 10 mph in the right scenario. It used to happen to me all the time.

2011 Nismo#91 · 07-20-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer.

But its more fun when you are.

https://youtu.be/Mmgk-LvZdfc

( Click to show/hide )

Rusty · 07-20-2018, 11:03 AM

Dead video.

igota21incher · 07-20-2018, 11:04 AM

Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep

Hotrodz · 07-20-2018, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Dead video.

Hmmm, worked for me!

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Hotrodz · 07-20-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igota21incher

Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep

This is what I think happened to Cupcakes!

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cv129 · 07-20-2018, 11:28 AM

Car sounded good #91!

07-19-2018, 02:17 PM	#39 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 44 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684441	My old Accord coupe (FF of course) would understeer like hell at 10 mph in the right scenario. It used to happen to me all the time. Hotrodz likes this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \| Last edited by JARblue; 07-19-2018 at 02:22 PM.

07-20-2018, 11:03 AM	#41 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 69 Posts: 35,341 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	Dead video. 2011 Nismo#91 likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

07-20-2018, 11:04 AM	#42 (permalink)
igota21incher Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: new york Posts: 100 Drives: 07 civic Rep Power: 17	Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep 2011 Nismo#91 likes this.

07-20-2018, 11:28 AM	#45 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,252 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	Car sounded good #91! 2011 Nismo#91 likes this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

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