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-   -   Holy Understeer! (http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspension/127671-holy-understeer.html)

Rusty 07-13-2018 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 3771218)
Show off!!!

This is a great place to start and works well for a dual purpose track and street car that sees some twisty road time. If you are just dd the car there is nothing wrong with having front camber at -1.0 to -1.5 to extend tire life and if you want to maximize straight line speed....well that's a whole other story.

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:D

Tractionless 07-16-2018 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3771095)
Front 1/16" toe in.
Rear 1/16" toe in.
It's a bit nervous. :tup:

What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

Rusty 07-16-2018 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless (Post 3771827)
What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard. :driving:

igota21incher 07-16-2018 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless (Post 3771827)
What's 1/16" in degrees? Everything else I've read around the forum etc. notes Rear toe MUST be double the value of the front.

FWIW I'm running 255 fronts 325 rear aggressive street only, no track. All OE suspension other than front sway bar and rear adjustable camber/toe bars. ZERO understeer and the tires won't unevenly wear as bad.

Caster 5*
Front camber (not adjustable) -1.02*, -1.23*
Front toe 0.09*

Rear camber -1.04*
Rear toe .018*

How is that even possible? No understeer?

Hotrodz 07-17-2018 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igota21incher (Post 3771955)
How is that even possible? No understeer?

You just go straight and then make a granny turn to the left or right!

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Tractionless 07-19-2018 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3771888)
Toe in inches is the old way. The way I was taught doing alignments many years ago. Also toe in inches is affected by size diameter. Where in degrees is off of vehicle center line. Tire diameter won't affect it.

So 1/16" toe in with a 27" tire is .1326288 deg total toe. Or .0663144 deg for one wheel.

For the rear toe. A lot of the track rats here run close to zero toe on the rear. Helps the car rotate.

255 front, 325 rear, and no understeer? You really haven't pushed all that hard. :driving:

Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.

Hotrodz 07-19-2018 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractionless (Post 3772539)
Thanks for explaining the inches measurement, interesting substitute.

I guess understeer is subjective. Sure if I go 100 mph into a round about I'll get understeer but for the purposes of the OP, which are spirited street/twisties driving I do not have any.

Give me a legitimate scenario to test and I'll do so. As mentioned above, such a test won't be 100 mph into a round about as the most track savy Z on this forum will even understeer in such a circumstance.

You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.

igota21incher 07-19-2018 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 3772573)
You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer. Understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car continues to go straight and adding addition input or turning does not help in getting the car to turn. I NASCAR they call it push because car wants to push through the turn. So Rusty's comment that you aren't driving hard enough refers to how aggressively you take a turn and that can be at 15 mph. It is about your inputs, speed into the corner and power out of said corner. So with your tire combination and the weight of the front end of the Z it is going to understeer when driven hard or at the limit for your tire and alignment setup.

This.

JARblue 07-19-2018 02:17 PM

My old Accord coupe (FF of course) would understeer like hell at 10 mph in the right scenario. It used to happen to me all the time.

2011 Nismo#91 07-20-2018 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 3772573)
You don't have to be traveling at a 100 mph to have understeer.

But its more fun when you are.

https://youtu.be/Mmgk-LvZdfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/Mmgk-LvZdfc

( Click to show/hide )
Totally missed the braking point.

Rusty 07-20-2018 11:03 AM

Dead video. :(

igota21incher 07-20-2018 11:04 AM

Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep :eekdance:

Hotrodz 07-20-2018 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3772867)
Dead video. :(

Hmmm, worked for me!

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Hotrodz 07-20-2018 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igota21incher (Post 3772868)
Now imagine that happening on the street with no cushy grass shoulder to soften your misstep :eekdance:

This is what I think happened to Cupcakes!

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cv129 07-20-2018 11:28 AM

Car sounded good #91!


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