D2 Coilovers

Hotrodz

One of the things learn as you mature and many don't is you can't argue with stupid. Maybe in thirty years or so you may be worthy of a real conversation. Your ego and need to be superior diminishes anything worthwhile you might have to say. That being said how am I impugning the reputation of any company when several of those companies sell Swift Springs as an upgrade to their own spring. And that will be the last statement from in this thread!

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MaysEffect

Not sure "impugning" was used correctly there, but anytime you question someone or something on how they describe their product or character, you are in some form tarnishing their name. Will they lose sleep or customers over it? Maybe not, but I'm sure enough people value your opinion on this forum to take your word on the matter and would try something else if they find what you say logical. Even on lookers can tell by your stats and signatures that you have a high reputation here and your opinion should be taken seriously. Why would anyone choose to go with Swift springs over something else if they don't hold up to the standardized values like you said? It's not even the cheapest option in the market.

I don't understand the need for hostility and attacks, I've never once spoke you guys name out of term. This conversation could've been over posts ago if you guys would have simply stated you disagreed. Instead the debate was continued with further claims for me to pick at regardless if it's right or wrong, stupid or logical.

I've tried to make all my statements as factual as possible, i don't see how i can make it any less egotistical. If i'm wrong simply correct me like Jhill or add info like Nismo91 and Rusty. Calling my argument stupid only breeds further dispute on both sides.

MaysEffect

And lastly on this debate about debating, this has absolutely nothing to do about wrong or right or getting a leg up on anybody. I'm lodging my objections for new on lookers who are looking for proper information. It's clear that you guys seem to be the leading force in knowledge on this forum. If no one questions you guys every once in a while, nobody would, and improvements aren't made. One persons word will be followed blindly without actually learning anything. If anything this debate has probably enlightened or will enlighten someone in the years to come.

OptionZero

I'm pretty sure no one cares for you because you seem like a dude that needs to walk away from the ******* computer and have a few beers instead of posting 10,000 words about why you're god's gift to this forum.

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MaysEffect

Probably right, but i can't drink alcohol.

Jhill

Here mass maybe this will help you. As I said people used to always comment on how ti springs felt different/better than steel and often commented as being "plusher". Now that these new alloy springs are out, which is what swift is and I'm sure it's similar to what I'm using on my bike. They have the same advantage in weight as Ti and I would not doubt similar frequency responses either.

WHY TI?

MaysEffect

Good info, and also good point about it being plusher oppose to softer. That i believe is the correct term. But this doesn't explain how it changes its specific force output when comparing two similarly rated springs. It only explains for any specific rate, you have less mass and subsequently more available travel. Would this actually make 400ib/in rated spring respond differently? Possibly, but what is being changed here dynamically? Wheel rate? The springs mass is balanced 50/50 between unsprung and sprung mass, so 2-5ibs loss in mass on the unsprung side would make a huge difference on its inertia over bumps. The other caveat is fatigue resistance and resistance to sag. Both of these go back to what i said earlier.

So in actuality the new spring would actually be stiffer, possibly resulting in a smoother more responsive wheel control. This intern is misconceived as "softer", but as you pointed out, it is actually "plusher".

Similarly to reducing the mass by adding smaller diameter and lighter wheels and tires, the overall change here is a reduction in weight and inertia.

Jhill

I don't think there is a difference in force output andI don't believe anyone here is actually thinking that. I believe this whole thing got derailed because of nitpicking terminology. I don't believe anyone is actually claiming swifts are "softer" what they mean is they ride more sensitive and give a perceived "softer" or probably more appropriately named "plusher" ride. This allows a user to jump up one rate without having the added "harshness" when doing so.

As you stated yes they will have less unsprung mass (although I'm not actually sure if that's right, is 50% the spring considered unsprung?) allowing the suspension to react quicker and just like wheels/rotors and everything else which all drastically help suspension.

As for an old vs new spring the spring on my bike was only one season old and had about 1-2 turns of preload (which in less than 1/16 and in on this shock) and unlike a vehicle there is no load on them without a rider (the rider is the main mass) so as for it being fatigued after only one season and being my dedicated dh bike it only sees about 6-8 trips a season so I highly doubt it was fatigued when I changed to the alloy spring.

As stated though it is a very slight difference but I'll bet the weight savings difference for this size size spring isn't as much as a car spring.

cv129

Of all the places this discussion can take place, y'all are duking it out in a D2 coilover thread?

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MaysEffect

Out of curiosity jhill. Do you ride professionally? That seems like a crazy amount of money for entertainment purposes.

Rusty

Mountain bikes can be $$$$$$. I got over $3,000 in one. Get into time trials or something like that. The frames alone can be over $7,000. Then add another $4,000 on top of that.

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MaysEffect

I know, that's why i was wandering if it was for competition use. Spending that much for entertainment usage seems crazy if you aren't getting paid to do it. 3k is the most i'd spend.

BobbyLight

It's an expensive rabbit hole to go down. Sucks you right in. I have more in my bicycle than I paid for a new yz250f

After getting into mountain bikes, things like $4k volk's don't scare me away anymore. Probably not a good thing

MaysEffect

I'd agree to that. All rabbit holes are expensive. The question is how worth it is falling into it lol. With cars, motorcycles and houses the gains seem longer lasting in some cases. I just can't wrap my head around spending that much on a bike that requires human power to work lol.