Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

Track folks are running 275 or 285 (or more) in front
Nissan increased the front tire width on the new Z (And increased caster)

All this talk about how “stiff front bar still understeers” is missing the point. If you actually wanted to reduce understeer you’d go to the root of the problem

This is like having a leak roof and bitching about how a bucket isn’t stopping the house from getting wet

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Your stock suspension and stock tired car understeers because that is how Nissan designed the car. You have the same problem as the other dude, you haven’t actually fixed the problem - insufficient front grip

More tire and more camber is the solution

No sway bar is gonna fix the issue

Originally Posted by OptionZero

So many ******* things wrong about this post, where do I start?

Street racing isn’t condoned here, and for normal daily driving who gives a **** about sway bar balance? At normal speeds, it doesn’t matter, you aren’t getting groceries any quicker.

A good coilovers setup won’t be “overly stiff” - the whole ******* point of spending money on coilovers to get adjustable height and damping AND better quality springs and dampers which are matched to each other AND YOUR INTENDED DRIVING STYLE. if you don’t know how to pick a good coilovers, there should be a suspension shop or manufacturer competent enough to do it for you

Adjusting camber with bushings and drop springs isn’t adjusting camber at all, you’re just randomly getting whatever spec is the side effect of lowering the car.

An adjustable front arm, specifically the SPL one, isn’t a “stiff setup’, it doesn’t affect stiffness at all. Maybe more feedback front replacing a bushing that may be worn, and going from rubber to metal, but the point is to be able to set your camber or caster to whatever you need.

Furthermore, the original post is from 2017. This thread has very clearly turned in a more track oriented discussion, YOU decided to weigh in with a perspective clearly limited in understanding of how suspension parts work and your own limitations as a driver

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

Originally Posted by OptionZero

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

Originally Posted by OptionZero

So the thing you cite is….a racing authority that runs closed road events? And from YouTube videos, it sure looks like it has a shitload of high end cars that are running better than your lowering spring and bushing setup.

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Seriously?

Originally Posted by cv129

Too little weight transfer (bar uber stiff but without grippier tire), then the outer front tire doesn’t get enough downward push, and you can get understeer as well.

Originally Posted by BettyZ

Yes. You have the social skills of a chainsaw that ran out of Copenhagen two days ago.

Originally Posted by Averying

Not trying to keep this thread going for no reason (although this one is probably immortal), but to clarify with a stiffer bar, the outside tire is getting MORE downward push. Sway bar transfers load from the inside to the outside tire, resulting in more uneven load distribution. So ideally you’d want as little sway bar as possible so you get the most even load distribution between tires… =max grip


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Originally Posted by Averying

Not trying to keep this thread going for no reason (although this one is probably immortal), but to clarify with a stiffer bar, the outside tire is getting MORE downward push. Sway bar transfers load from the inside to the outside tire, resulting in more uneven load distribution. So ideally you’d want as little sway bar as possible so you get the most even load distribution between tires… =max grip


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Originally Posted by cv129

Just so I interpret correctly on “inside” and “outside”, for example…

In a right hand turn (steering wheel turning right), right front would be inside, left front would be outside?

Originally Posted by Rusty

I just about spit my drink out reading this.