Voodoo13 rear camber arms and Nismo sway bars?

Brendan · 11-26-2016, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory

Yeah I've often heard toe will kill tires faster than camber. Bottom set are the new numbers after alignment, top numbers are with the Aragostas installed for a week. I'd think with zero toe there'd be less wear? How is toe adjusted up front? Already has an eccentric? Despite being under there all the time I never really looked.

Toe is adjusted by the length or the tie rods on the front of the vehicle.

Jhill · 11-26-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory

Yeah I've often heard toe will kill tires faster than camber. Bottom set are the new numbers after alignment, top numbers are with the Aragostas installed for a week. I'd think with zero toe there'd be less wear? How is toe adjusted up front? Already has an eccentric? Despite being under there all the time I never really looked.

That zero number is static, it means nothing to what your actual toe is under load. Typically a rear drive cars front wheels with a positive scrub radius will have a reduced toe under forward motion. So if you started at 0 now your at -x. Toe Ian the real killer to tire wear and if you are at - toe then that absolutely explains your inner wear issue. Stock sports use +.07 toe (if I'm remembering right) so this helps make up for the reduced toe under load. Also most street setups I have seen will run a - camber and a + toe, my belief is these two will counter each other (- camber = inner wear, + toe = outer wear) so the overall wear will be even, also the car will be more stable as the thrust from the - camber and + toe will make all tires push toward center of vehicle.

But yes - camber with - toe will be the death of your inner tire wear.

Hotrodz · 11-26-2016, 08:17 PM

You got to stiffen up your rear end, rear differential bushing replacement and solid knuckle bushing. I have my Nismo sway bar in the rear and sub frame to go along with a Wavetrac rear diff. If you are sensitive to noise then I would forgo the sub frame bushings and you will get so noise from the solid rear diff bushing as well.

Ape Factory · 11-26-2016, 08:47 PM

Ah ok that set off the lightbulb, much appreciated. I may rotate the tires side to side and go in on Monday and have them adjust front toe. I don't want to be into the cord before I can order new tires.

So I could quite possibly get away with that camber setting and proper toe. And I wouldn't need front control arms either, correct? Money not spent where it isn't needed is a good thing.

As for the rear diff, I definitely don't want solid bushings. My initial goal was a mild drop and to keep most of the stock suspension due to NVH issues. The difference in NVH between a G37 and a 370Z is pretty stunning. Can't imagine what solid bushings would do! Car is low mileage too, I think I just hit 28K so the stock bushings are good (no wheel hop at all).

Because I have an auto, it's my understanding the Wavetrac won't work due to carrier/ pinion offset or something like that. Now I've heard, and I think read on this very forum, the differentials between manual and automatics are swappable with the need to use a different stub shaft on one side. I've not looked into it in super detail just yet. Since I have an auto IPL, my differential to driveshaft coupler is, I believe, a four bolt as well.
What I don't know is:
-Can I just buy a manual base open diff and use it for the Wavetrac even though I have an auto?
-Will I need a new stub shaft or other mods to make it work?
-Do the differential to driveshaft flange/couplers interchange? Can I simply bolt on a four bolt flange to the open diff three bolt?

I know there's an ultimate differential guide thread on this forum, will look it up again.

I'm guessing it'll run about $1600 installed if I source the pumpkin and do some of the leg work myself. Heck I'm sure I could install the pumpkin myself but I'd leave the diff installation into the carrier for a pro as it's been some time since I did one myself. And I have no time.

I'm still going to run it by the dealership and see if the VLSD is even remotely working as it's still under warranty. I'll turn off the VDC on the way home from work and test things out. I've gotten good at walking riiiight up to it's limit but it'd be great if it would just grip and go instead.

Jhill · 11-26-2016, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory

Ah ok that set off the lightbulb, much appreciated. I may rotate the tires side to side and go in on Monday and have them adjust front toe. I don't want to be into the cord before I can order new tires.

So I could quite possibly get away with that camber setting and proper toe. And I wouldn't need front control arms either, correct? Money not spent where it isn't needed is a good thing.

As for the rear diff, I definitely don't want solid bushings. My initial goal was a mild drop and to keep most of the stock suspension due to NVH issues. The difference in NVH between a G37 and a 370Z is pretty stunning. Can't imagine what solid bushings would do! Car is low mileage too, I think I just hit 28K so the stock bushings are good (no wheel hop at all).

Because I have an auto, it's my understanding the Wavetrac won't work due to carrier/ pinion offset or something like that. Now I've heard, and I think read on this very forum, the differentials between manual and automatics are swappable with the need to use a different stub shaft on one side. I've not looked into it in super detail just yet. Since I have an auto IPL, my differential to driveshaft coupler is, I believe, a four bolt as well.
What I don't know is:
-Can I just buy a manual base open diff and use it for the Wavetrac even though I have an auto?
-Will I need a new stub shaft or other mods to make it work?
-Do the differential to driveshaft flange/couplers interchange? Can I simply bolt on a four bolt flange to the open diff three bolt?

I know there's an ultimate differential guide thread on this forum, will look it up again.

I'm guessing it'll run about $1600 installed if I source the pumpkin and do some of the leg work myself. Heck I'm sure I could install the pumpkin myself but I'd leave the diff installation into the carrier for a pro as it's been some time since I did one myself. And I have no time.

I'm still going to run it by the dealership and see if the VLSD is even remotely working as it's still under warranty. I'll turn off the VDC on the way home from work and test things out. I've gotten good at walking riiiight up to it's limit but it'd be great if it would just grip and go instead.

No reason to go to dealer to have them check the VLSD just jack up the rear the car in neutral with parking brake off and spin one rear wheel, if it feel tight and the other is spinning in same direction then you have LSD. It's a sealed unit and pretty robust so I highly doubt anything is actually wrong with yours.

As for your angles, yea your a bit out from oem and every car is different and I have only had my z with one set of new tires but typically I find anything under -1.5 will have good wear across the tire for most cars. Hell my last rear set wore even and when I went to align with new tires I found out I was at like -2.2 however oem center position is -1.5 so -2 isn't actually too far out from oem on the rear of a z, but -1.5 is pretty much at my comfort level for street use. I guess I would say -1 from oem center will probably be safe for most cars and -.5 to -.75 from center probably ideal for a performance but street focused angle. That would be my opinion and then just monitor the wear pattern.

Hotrodz · 11-27-2016, 06:40 PM

My bad on over looking that your ride is an AT...Quaife will fit your bill. Lots of folks are very happy withe that mod!

Ape Factory · 11-27-2016, 11:33 PM

No worries, looks like I can get a manual diff and swap over the flange anyway so it's not out of the question. Honestly, that'll be a bit more expensive but it will be the easier route with my time constraints and swapping in the whole unit at once.

Spooler · 11-28-2016, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory

No worries, looks like I can get a manual diff and swap over the flange anyway so it's not out of the question. Honestly, that'll be a bit more expensive but it will be the easier route with my time constraints and swapping in the whole unit at once.

You can get a whole unit from Z1 motorsports with the flanges.

Ape Factory · 11-28-2016, 07:06 PM

I looked at that option and it's about $2400 not including installation. Not cheap, that's for sure.

Anyway...I do want to thank everyone for their feedback first and foremost. I was really at my wits end with the traction and then the alignment issues.

I went back to the shop that did the original alignment. They did not have time to get me in to check toe but I'm headed back there first thing in the morning. We went over the original alignment specs along with the OEM specifications and I'm pretty far outside the minimal setting for front camber. I'm at -1.3 and OEM minimum is -1.16. I'm within the minimum at the rear, -1.6, with the OEM minimum being -1.75. And the rears look better although there's a hair more wear inboard than out.

So I did take the advice on the SPL's and ordered the rear camber arms from ConceptZ. I should have those and the front upper control arms in a week. I also ordered wider wheels and tires and am going with a square setup (9.5's all around) which'll shave about 6 pounds up front per tire, and 10 pounds per in the rear.

Once I get everything installed, I'll go back for an alignment and assess my traction issues at that time. If it's still on the really bad end of things, I'll invest in a differential.

Again, thanks for everyone's help!

Ape Factory · 11-28-2016, 09:30 PM

Went out tonight and turned the VDC off for the first time. That was a lot of fun and something I should have done a long time ago. Almost seemed like I had more traction and drifts were pretty darn controllable for a longer period of time with no rear brake l. This car is very easy to drive sideways and keep things under control.

Hotrodz · 11-28-2016, 11:23 PM

VDC off always...that is the first thing I do as soon as car is started. You gain better control and traction.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Spooler · 11-29-2016, 06:49 AM

Yeap, If I am driving spirited, VDC is off. I can't stand it. First time I experienced the rear brake crap I was like WTF????? I so want to kick that guy in the nuts that put that crap on the car.

Ape Factory · 11-29-2016, 09:15 AM

At the shop this morning before heading into work, camber is now -1.9! Not sure what caused the change as I've not touched the shock height and have only checked the spring preload and didn't have to touch a thing. Front camber arms will hopefully be here this week.

Jhill · 11-29-2016, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory

At the shop this morning before heading into work, camber is now -1.9! Not sure what caused the change as I've not touched the shock height and have only checked the spring preload and didn't have to touch a thing. Front camber arms will hopefully be here this week.

Yea at 1 inch drop I think that sounds right. It gets pretty neg pretty quick with the SLA suspension from what I have gathered. I need to re do my ride height again as it's settled lower and uneven which is becoming a pain to get level. You will be outside the minimum if you lower the car that's just normal it's just a matter of what's a general accepted normal at that point (-1.3 doesn't seem too extreme for street). I'm hoping to hit .5 lower than oem and stay in a reasonable camber angle.

One thing I did not do very well was get a good oem height measurement first, I've found the heights but they list from ground to fender which will vary with tire. I measured from rim lip to fender and got 4.5 all around but should have measured from bottom rim lip to fender. Anyone have a oem spec with 19" from bottom lip to fender?

Ape Factory · 11-30-2016, 07:27 AM

New numbers. Apparently our cars don't hold an alignment well (crappy roads?). Top numbers are as I drove in, bottom numbers are as they now sit. My toe was definitely out and it's on the side with more wear. They did a realignment for free which was very nice of them and they even walked me back to show me a few things. It also helps that they're a mile from my house. I should be able to make it long enough for the new wheels/tires to come in.

11-26-2016, 08:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	You got to stiffen up your rear end, rear differential bushing replacement and solid knuckle bushing. I have my Nismo sway bar in the rear and sub frame to go along with a Wavetrac rear diff. If you are sensitive to noise then I would forgo the sub frame bushings and you will get so noise from the solid rear diff bushing as well. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

11-26-2016, 08:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	Ah ok that set off the lightbulb, much appreciated. I may rotate the tires side to side and go in on Monday and have them adjust front toe. I don't want to be into the cord before I can order new tires. So I could quite possibly get away with that camber setting and proper toe. And I wouldn't need front control arms either, correct? Money not spent where it isn't needed is a good thing. As for the rear diff, I definitely don't want solid bushings. My initial goal was a mild drop and to keep most of the stock suspension due to NVH issues. The difference in NVH between a G37 and a 370Z is pretty stunning. Can't imagine what solid bushings would do! Car is low mileage too, I think I just hit 28K so the stock bushings are good (no wheel hop at all). Because I have an auto, it's my understanding the Wavetrac won't work due to carrier/ pinion offset or something like that. Now I've heard, and I think read on this very forum, the differentials between manual and automatics are swappable with the need to use a different stub shaft on one side. I've not looked into it in super detail just yet. Since I have an auto IPL, my differential to driveshaft coupler is, I believe, a four bolt as well. What I don't know is: -Can I just buy a manual base open diff and use it for the Wavetrac even though I have an auto? -Will I need a new stub shaft or other mods to make it work? -Do the differential to driveshaft flange/couplers interchange? Can I simply bolt on a four bolt flange to the open diff three bolt? I know there's an ultimate differential guide thread on this forum, will look it up again. I'm guessing it'll run about $1600 installed if I source the pumpkin and do some of the leg work myself. Heck I'm sure I could install the pumpkin myself but I'd leave the diff installation into the carrier for a pro as it's been some time since I did one myself. And I have no time. I'm still going to run it by the dealership and see if the VLSD is even remotely working as it's still under warranty. I'll turn off the VDC on the way home from work and test things out. I've gotten good at walking riiiight up to it's limit but it'd be great if it would just grip and go instead. __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

11-27-2016, 06:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	My bad on over looking that your ride is an AT...Quaife will fit your bill. Lots of folks are very happy withe that mod! __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

11-27-2016, 11:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	No worries, looks like I can get a manual diff and swap over the flange anyway so it's not out of the question. Honestly, that'll be a bit more expensive but it will be the easier route with my time constraints and swapping in the whole unit at once. __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

11-28-2016, 07:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	I looked at that option and it's about $2400 not including installation. Not cheap, that's for sure. Anyway...I do want to thank everyone for their feedback first and foremost. I was really at my wits end with the traction and then the alignment issues. I went back to the shop that did the original alignment. They did not have time to get me in to check toe but I'm headed back there first thing in the morning. We went over the original alignment specs along with the OEM specifications and I'm pretty far outside the minimal setting for front camber. I'm at -1.3 and OEM minimum is -1.16. I'm within the minimum at the rear, -1.6, with the OEM minimum being -1.75. And the rears look better although there's a hair more wear inboard than out. So I did take the advice on the SPL's and ordered the rear camber arms from ConceptZ. I should have those and the front upper control arms in a week. I also ordered wider wheels and tires and am going with a square setup (9.5's all around) which'll shave about 6 pounds up front per tire, and 10 pounds per in the rear. Once I get everything installed, I'll go back for an alignment and assess my traction issues at that time. If it's still on the really bad end of things, I'll invest in a differential. Again, thanks for everyone's help! __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

11-28-2016, 09:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	Went out tonight and turned the VDC off for the first time. That was a lot of fun and something I should have done a long time ago. Almost seemed like I had more traction and drifts were pretty darn controllable for a longer period of time with no rear brake l. This car is very easy to drive sideways and keep things under control. __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

11-28-2016, 11:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	VDC off always...that is the first thing I do as soon as car is started. You gain better control and traction. Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

11-29-2016, 06:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 14,043 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684393	Yeap, If I am driving spirited, VDC is off. I can't stand it. First time I experienced the rear brake crap I was like WTF????? I so want to kick that guy in the nuts that put that crap on the car. Hotrodz likes this.

11-29-2016, 09:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	At the shop this morning before heading into work, camber is now -1.9! Not sure what caused the change as I've not touched the shock height and have only checked the spring preload and didn't have to touch a thing. Front camber arms will hopefully be here this week. __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

11-30-2016, 07:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ape Factory Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: San Antonio Posts: 210 Drives: Audi RS5/QX70S Rep Power: 10	New numbers. Apparently our cars don't hold an alignment well (crappy roads?). Top numbers are as I drove in, bottom numbers are as they now sit. My toe was definitely out and it's on the side with more wear. They did a realignment for free which was very nice of them and they even walked me back to show me a few things. It also helps that they're a mile from my house. I should be able to make it long enough for the new wheels/tires to come in. Hotrodz likes this. __________________ '13 Audi RS5 Misano w/mods-The Red Mist '13 G37 IPL-SOLD

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