Is Moton also AST?

GeauxTigers1 · 05-08-2016, 03:10 PM

Hey There All,

Been doing some searching and literally nothing comes up for "AST" keyword search, but I do get some for Moton. I'm a bit new to the suspension world other than my 09 that I had purchased used that already had BC's. Looking for an overall upgrade with the new Z. I really feel I've narrowed it down to these two:

Moton 2-Way Sport

AST 5200 Series : AST 2-Way 5200 - Nissan 370Z/Fairlady Z

But when I look on a few sites, Moton and AST are advertised the same, but will have dif sections for their shock obsorbers. So am I really comparing relatively the exact same system? Interested in who all has experience with either. The Z is not my daily, but is going to be 70% street to events and date night and such and 30% track. Nothing competition wise, but looking to have fun and learn. It seems these two are right on the cusp of racing, but still streetable. Thanks for the help everyone!

cv129 · 05-08-2016, 05:00 PM

I think AST bought Motons a few yrs ago. From what I read before, they still contain different internals.

Fwiw, a couple of moton main guys left and created MCS, they also have 370z application.

Curious, why not also consider JRZ?

Are you ok with some downtime every 10k or so miles? Don't know the exact frequency, but periodic rebuilds are supposed to be needed with these shocks.

That comment about not being able to put 648whp down must've gotten you a bit hot haha.

cv129 · 05-08-2016, 05:02 PM

I believe there is one existing member running a custom set of AST shocks. AST didn't have 370z application before, must've been a recent addition.

gomer_110 · 05-08-2016, 05:06 PM

iirc they used to be separate companies but joined forces some years back.

I actually have the AST 5200's on my car with custom valving for the higher spring rates I run.

The upside is the AST's come with the upper mounts while the Moton's require you buy them separate. Also be prepared to wait, when I ordered mine I waited somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks.

Jhill · 05-11-2016, 02:20 AM

My buddy has AST on his BMW m3 and they are very impressive. I am now considering some 4100series with the ddp option. First looked at KW v3 but the no spring change option and coming with progressive rates is a deal breaker for me. Then thought the BC dr series since they have swift options and are linear but their min drop of somewhere around 1-1.5 inch drop is too much for street use for me. The AST sound like everything in after. Adjustable, spring options, min drop of .5-.75. Talking with them they seem very knowledgable of the Nissan suspensions which is surprising since I've only known about them through the BMW crowd. Also something interesting is they run an 8k front with a 6k rear rate. So same as Oem front but they feel through their testing they actually get more mechanical grip through the softer 6k rear spring. With all the users on here running the softer stock rear sway kinda makes you wonder if they are on to something? Look up Chris Harris in the new Ferrari and how it softens the rear end to regain mechanical grip, of course that's a dynamic suspension so it can change on the fly.

GeauxTigers1 · 05-11-2016, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

I think AST bought Motons a few yrs ago. From what I read before, they still contain different internals.

Fwiw, a couple of moton main guys left and created MCS, they also have 370z application.

Curious, why not also consider JRZ?

Are you ok with some downtime every 10k or so miles? Don't know the exact frequency, but periodic rebuilds are supposed to be needed with these shocks.

That comment about not being able to put 648whp down must've gotten you a bit hot haha.

JRZ seems to be even pricer. I believe their entry level set up was somewhere in the 7500+ range. I had been reading and quite a few people on the forums said they didn't see the gains justifying the cost. These ASTs are right where I was hoping to be. Quick question though, where did you find the info on needing to rebuild the shocks? Is that bc people with this suspension are usually tracking them or do they truly need to be rebuilt that often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

iirc they used to be separate companies but joined forces some years back.

I actually have the AST 5200's on my car with custom valving for the higher spring rates I run.

The upside is the AST's come with the upper mounts while the Moton's require you buy them separate. Also be prepared to wait, when I ordered mine I waited somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks.

Fantastic! I'll be sure to save you if we come up with any q's. Any recommendations when ordering? Items to pair it with, sway bars etc? I was looking at Stillen bc as mentioned below they talked about that "softer" sway. Also 6-8 weeks aint bad! Shoot anything over seas and I automatically think it'll be JDM all over again which 2 months is the minimum! LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

My buddy has AST on his BMW m3 and they are very impressive. I am now considering some 4100series with the ddp option. First looked at KW v3 but the no spring change option and coming with progressive rates is a deal breaker for me. Then thought the BC dr series since they have swift options and are linear but their min drop of somewhere around 1-1.5 inch drop is too much for street use for me. The AST sound like everything in after. Adjustable, spring options, min drop of .5-.75. Talking with them they seem very knowledgable of the Nissan suspensions which is surprising since I've only known about them through the BMW crowd. Also something interesting is they run an 8k front with a 6k rear rate. So same as Oem front but they feel through their testing they actually get more mechanical grip through the softer 6k rear spring. With all the users on here running the softer stock rear sway kinda makes you wonder if they are on to something? Look up Chris Harris in the new Ferrari and how it softens the rear end to regain mechanical grip, of course that's a dynamic suspension so it can change on the fly.

Thanks for the great detail! Repped. The min drop is also huge for me. I hate the gap in the fender well but REALLY hate if I'm scrapping everywhere I go. I'm really leaning towards these shocks over Moton but it sounds like you really can't go wrong either way. I think the KW and BCs are in a whole different category from these. At least when I was researching I found some info that mentioned the KW and BC are good for group events, street, and slight track, but these you are truly upgrading the suspension with an entry level track racing setup. At least that's the info I've found so far.

DEpointfive0 · 05-11-2016, 06:20 AM

JRZ starts at... $4500~ or $5500. Probably $5500

That's all I can add... I'll go back to my hole now

gomer_110 · 05-11-2016, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeauxTigers1

Fantastic! I'll be sure to save you if we come up with any q's. Any recommendations when ordering? Items to pair it with, sway bars etc? I was looking at Stillen bc as mentioned below they talked about that "softer" sway. Also 6-8 weeks aint bad! Shoot anything over seas and I automatically think it'll be JDM all over again which 2 months is the minimum! LOL.

As far as other things to do at the same time I'd plan on doing front control arms, rear camber and toe arms (assumes using truecoilover setup in rear), eccentric lockout kit for rear arms, stiffer front sway bar, and front sway bar end links. Use SPL for the suspension parts when possible.

As for the rear sway bar, leave it stock.

Slartibartfas · 05-11-2016, 10:24 AM

Y'all might look into Aragosta, too. They have A G/Z application and say their damper can be serviced by Moton USA.

Spooler · 05-11-2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Y'all might look into Aragosta, too. They have A G/Z application and say their damper can be serviced by Moton USA.

Sorry man, I know I am slow. Life has a way of doing that to you sometimes. Only a couple more pieces and my Aragosta suspension will be on my car.

OptionZero · 05-11-2016, 12:08 PM

Ordered my Aragosta Type-S mid March from Bulletproof, still waiting. Not unexpected, just anxious since i got a pile of SPL parts sitting around . . .

IIRC Aragosta can be serviced by whoever does ASTs due to shared components, even if the companies aren't "the same." Heck, I think there's even a special rebuild shop at Infineon which isn't too far away from me.

Jhill · 05-11-2016, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeauxTigers1

JRZ seems to be even pricer. I believe their entry level set up was somewhere in the 7500+ range. I had been reading and quite a few people on the forums said they didn't see the gains justifying the cost. These ASTs are right where I was hoping to be. Quick question though, where did you find the info on needing to rebuild the shocks? Is that bc people with this suspension are usually tracking them or do they truly need to be rebuilt that often?

Fantastic! I'll be sure to save you if we come up with any q's. Any recommendations when ordering? Items to pair it with, sway bars etc? I was looking at Stillen bc as mentioned below they talked about that "softer" sway. Also 6-8 weeks aint bad! Shoot anything over seas and I automatically think it'll be JDM all over again which 2 months is the minimum! LOL.

Thanks for the great detail! Repped. The min drop is also huge for me. I hate the gap in the fender well but REALLY hate if I'm scrapping everywhere I go. I'm really leaning towards these shocks over Moton but it sounds like you really can't go wrong either way. I think the KW and BCs are in a whole different category from these. At least when I was researching I found some info that mentioned the KW and BC are good for group events, street, and slight track, but these you are truly upgrading the suspension with an entry level track racing setup. At least that's the info I've found so far.

Yea the BC DR sound like a great option and the concept of raising/lowering the whole strut keeping the stroke length the same is a really cool concept and I would be very tempted to try them, especially at their price point. However after already scraping some areas at Oem height I just can't see myself enjoying daily driving at 1.5 drop. The AST "street" option 4100 series sounds very nice for my use, same oem front rate so no worry of harshness, actually a softer rear rate so maybe even smoother and then a double digressive option (comp and rebound not just comp). This is how my off-road bikes are setup and it's great because you can have a more firm chassis stability through firmer low speeds but then open up on a bigger hit and rebound faster from a bigger hit so the suspension doesn pack up. Sounds like a really good system for uneven road conditions etc. a review below.

AST 4150 Shocks Have Arrived At Vorshlag - SCCAForums.com - SCCA

Halfkiddio · 05-11-2016, 12:42 PM

After driving my friends Z on a set of JRZ RS Pro's, they are what my own Z will most likely end up with. Stance Pro Comp 2's are also an option you can look into, and IMO, are better than BC's.

JRZ RS Pros MSRP is $5,665 off Forged Performance's website.

Jhill · 05-11-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfkiddio

After driving my friends Z on a set of JRZ RS Pro's, they are what my own Z will most likely end up with. Stance Pro Comp 2's are also an option you can look into, and IMO, are better than BC's.

JRZ RS Pros MSRP is $5,665 off Forged Performance's website.

Yea once they get past 3k I think that is beyond my budget. I'll spend 2k on a fork but that's my main hobby lol. Beside a dual duty car will always be a compromise and I don't think spending 6k on coilovers that will never get truly pushed to the limits because of street tires, street angles, no cage etc etc. if I had a full track car then I could see the point but for me it's not logical.

Never heard of stance, I'll have to look into them all though the name represents an absolutely retarded trend on cars right now so I hope that isn't what they are going for. Only thing that finally made me decide again trying the BC is the min drop is just too low, if I'm going coil over I would rather have a near oem height down to maybe 2in drop that I would seem to think would be the most logical heights for performance focus, not a min 1.5-3 like some of the others.

Just looked them up. Don't think I would go that route, doesn't stick to the Oem rear spring perch. Also sounds like another super low setup. Seems only KW and AST have a min drop in the .5 in range and KW uses proprietary progressive springs. Still think I would go AST.

Hotrodz · 05-11-2016, 02:20 PM

Stance is an excellent choice and has nothing to do with jacked up car look.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

05-08-2016, 03:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
GeauxTigers1 Track Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surprise, Az Posts: 590 Drives: 2017 370Z Nismo Rep Power: 6745	Is Moton also AST? Hey There All, Been doing some searching and literally nothing comes up for "AST" keyword search, but I do get some for Moton. I'm a bit new to the suspension world other than my 09 that I had purchased used that already had BC's. Looking for an overall upgrade with the new Z. I really feel I've narrowed it down to these two: Moton 2-Way Sport AST 5200 Series : AST 2-Way 5200 - Nissan 370Z/Fairlady Z But when I look on a few sites, Moton and AST are advertised the same, but will have dif sections for their shock obsorbers. So am I really comparing relatively the exact same system? Interested in who all has experience with either. The Z is not my daily, but is going to be 70% street to events and date night and such and 30% track. Nothing competition wise, but looking to have fun and learn. It seems these two are right on the cusp of racing, but still streetable. Thanks for the help everyone! hjo1078 likes this. __________________ Fast Intentions Kit Stage 2 #076 2017 Twin Turbo 370z Nismo. JMS Built Block, Closed Deck 874whp, 803lbs Tq e85 Ecutek Tune

05-08-2016, 05:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,261 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	I think AST bought Motons a few yrs ago. From what I read before, they still contain different internals. Fwiw, a couple of moton main guys left and created MCS, they also have 370z application. Curious, why not also consider JRZ? Are you ok with some downtime every 10k or so miles? Don't know the exact frequency, but periodic rebuilds are supposed to be needed with these shocks. That comment about not being able to put 648whp down must've gotten you a bit hot haha. GeauxTigers1 likes this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield Last edited by cv129; 05-08-2016 at 05:10 PM.

05-08-2016, 05:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,261 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	I believe there is one existing member running a custom set of AST shocks. AST didn't have 370z application before, must've been a recent addition. GeauxTigers1 likes this. __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

05-08-2016, 05:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36941	iirc they used to be separate companies but joined forces some years back. I actually have the AST 5200's on my car with custom valving for the higher spring rates I run. The upside is the AST's come with the upper mounts while the Moton's require you buy them separate. Also be prepared to wait, when I ordered mine I waited somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks. GeauxTigers1 likes this. __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock

05-11-2016, 02:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jhill Track Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: San jose Posts: 854 Drives: 2013 370z sport Rep Power: 3385	My buddy has AST on his BMW m3 and they are very impressive. I am now considering some 4100series with the ddp option. First looked at KW v3 but the no spring change option and coming with progressive rates is a deal breaker for me. Then thought the BC dr series since they have swift options and are linear but their min drop of somewhere around 1-1.5 inch drop is too much for street use for me. The AST sound like everything in after. Adjustable, spring options, min drop of .5-.75. Talking with them they seem very knowledgable of the Nissan suspensions which is surprising since I've only known about them through the BMW crowd. Also something interesting is they run an 8k front with a 6k rear rate. So same as Oem front but they feel through their testing they actually get more mechanical grip through the softer 6k rear spring. With all the users on here running the softer stock rear sway kinda makes you wonder if they are on to something? Look up Chris Harris in the new Ferrari and how it softens the rear end to regain mechanical grip, of course that's a dynamic suspension so it can change on the fly. GeauxTigers1 likes this.

05-11-2016, 06:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17152	JRZ starts at... $4500~ or $5500. Probably $5500 That's all I can add... I'll go back to my hole now GeauxTigers1 likes this. __________________ Do YOU want to know what/where I got my username from? ( Click to show/hide ) NSFW due to language:

05-11-2016, 10:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
Slartibartfas Track Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Houston Posts: 551 Drives: 2011 G37S sedan Rep Power: 11	Y'all might look into Aragosta, too. They have A G/Z application and say their damper can be serviced by Moton USA. __________________ 2011 Journey Sport sedan 7AT \| SPL front, SPC rear camber arms \| ARK Grip cat-back \|

05-11-2016, 12:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,255 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214101	Ordered my Aragosta Type-S mid March from Bulletproof, still waiting. Not unexpected, just anxious since i got a pile of SPL parts sitting around . . . IIRC Aragosta can be serviced by whoever does ASTs due to shared components, even if the companies aren't "the same." Heck, I think there's even a special rebuild shop at Infineon which isn't too far away from me.

05-11-2016, 12:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
Halfkiddio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Knoxville Age: 31 Posts: 250 Drives: 09 RAE 370Z Rep Power: 11	After driving my friends Z on a set of JRZ RS Pro's, they are what my own Z will most likely end up with. Stance Pro Comp 2's are also an option you can look into, and IMO, are better than BC's. JRZ RS Pros MSRP is $5,665 off Forged Performance's website. GeauxTigers1 likes this.

05-11-2016, 02:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Stance is an excellent choice and has nothing to do with jacked up car look. Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk DarkJak and GeauxTigers1 like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

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