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Is Moton also AST?
Hey There All,
Been doing some searching and literally nothing comes up for "AST" keyword search, but I do get some for Moton. I'm a bit new to the suspension world other than my 09 that I had purchased used that already had BC's. Looking for an overall upgrade with the new Z. I really feel I've narrowed it down to these two: Moton 2-Way Sport AST 5200 Series : AST 2-Way 5200 - Nissan 370Z/Fairlady Z But when I look on a few sites, Moton and AST are advertised the same, but will have dif sections for their shock obsorbers. So am I really comparing relatively the exact same system? Interested in who all has experience with either. The Z is not my daily, but is going to be 70% street to events and date night and such and 30% track. Nothing competition wise, but looking to have fun and learn. It seems these two are right on the cusp of racing, but still streetable. Thanks for the help everyone! |
I think AST bought Motons a few yrs ago. From what I read before, they still contain different internals.
Fwiw, a couple of moton main guys left and created MCS, they also have 370z application. Curious, why not also consider JRZ? Are you ok with some downtime every 10k or so miles? Don't know the exact frequency, but periodic rebuilds are supposed to be needed with these shocks. That comment about not being able to put 648whp down must've gotten you a bit hot haha. |
I believe there is one existing member running a custom set of AST shocks. AST didn't have 370z application before, must've been a recent addition.
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iirc they used to be separate companies but joined forces some years back.
I actually have the AST 5200's on my car with custom valving for the higher spring rates I run. The upside is the AST's come with the upper mounts while the Moton's require you buy them separate. Also be prepared to wait, when I ordered mine I waited somewhere on the order of 6-8 weeks. |
My buddy has AST on his BMW m3 and they are very impressive. I am now considering some 4100series with the ddp option. First looked at KW v3 but the no spring change option and coming with progressive rates is a deal breaker for me. Then thought the BC dr series since they have swift options and are linear but their min drop of somewhere around 1-1.5 inch drop is too much for street use for me. The AST sound like everything in after. Adjustable, spring options, min drop of .5-.75. Talking with them they seem very knowledgable of the Nissan suspensions which is surprising since I've only known about them through the BMW crowd. Also something interesting is they run an 8k front with a 6k rear rate. So same as Oem front but they feel through their testing they actually get more mechanical grip through the softer 6k rear spring. With all the users on here running the softer stock rear sway kinda makes you wonder if they are on to something? Look up Chris Harris in the new Ferrari and how it softens the rear end to regain mechanical grip, of course that's a dynamic suspension so it can change on the fly.
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JRZ starts at... $4500~ or $5500. Probably $5500
That's all I can add... I'll go back to my hole now |
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As for the rear sway bar, leave it stock. |
Y'all might look into Aragosta, too. They have A G/Z application and say their damper can be serviced by Moton USA.
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Ordered my Aragosta Type-S mid March from Bulletproof, still waiting. Not unexpected, just anxious since i got a pile of SPL parts sitting around . . .
IIRC Aragosta can be serviced by whoever does ASTs due to shared components, even if the companies aren't "the same." Heck, I think there's even a special rebuild shop at Infineon which isn't too far away from me. |
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AST 4150 Shocks Have Arrived At Vorshlag - SCCAForums.com - SCCA |
After driving my friends Z on a set of JRZ RS Pro's, they are what my own Z will most likely end up with. Stance Pro Comp 2's are also an option you can look into, and IMO, are better than BC's.
JRZ RS Pros MSRP is $5,665 off Forged Performance's website. |
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Never heard of stance, I'll have to look into them all though the name represents an absolutely retarded trend on cars right now so I hope that isn't what they are going for. Only thing that finally made me decide again trying the BC is the min drop is just too low, if I'm going coil over I would rather have a near oem height down to maybe 2in drop that I would seem to think would be the most logical heights for performance focus, not a min 1.5-3 like some of the others. Just looked them up. Don't think I would go that route, doesn't stick to the Oem rear spring perch. Also sounds like another super low setup. Seems only KW and AST have a min drop in the .5 in range and KW uses proprietary progressive springs. Still think I would go AST. |
Stance is an excellent choice and has nothing to do with jacked up car look.
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Stance does well in the super low group, but they also do extremely well in the higher performance driving with their Pro Comp 2's. Another friend of mine just ordered a set, so I will be waiting for his review of them. But I know they do really well in certain time attack cars, with a couple of them being 370's. They also don't drop the car ridiculously low out of the box, and they are fully adjustable.
On the spring location topic, you can specify the spring rates you want to get the ride quality you're looking for. If you want a smooth ride, you can get softer rates and have them valved accordingly. KW will no longer re-valve the V3's to a different spring rate since everyone was doing that and not buying their Clubsport coils. They would serve you very well, and they would be a great choice. |
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There is also a guy who works for Vengence Road Racing that runs them on his car. He was at the Global Time Attack event at Road Atlanta last weekend. I wasn't there to ask him what all he had done to the car, but from the live stream, it sounded and looked good.
Back on topic, Stance would be a good choice over the V3's IMO. |
djtodd generally competes in that event. He has a build thread and some awesome videos.
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Quick question though, where did you find the info on needing to rebuild the shocks? Is that bc people with this suspension are usually tracking them or do they truly need to be rebuilt that often?
My 2 cents...maybe I used the word "rebuild" too loosely. What I meant was servicing the shocks. It can be as simple as changing out the shock oils. And in the longer run, especially if shocks are exposed to high heat (engine heat + lots of rapid movements from aggressive driving), I think seals and shims have to be replaced. On nitrogen filled shocks, you should service when shock does not return to its original position on its own (test when shock is off the car, simplify push in and see if it goes back on its own). I am unsure just exactly how often a service should be performed. Pro race teams check them as often as every session. Some say race tracks usage is the most punishing. Some say uneven road is equally bad. Some says a service is warranted when the adjustment knobs no longer provide the desired changes (like turning it a few position and car still feels the same). I've seen pictures of high end shocks with oil all gunked up. I think it's best to raise this question to the manufacturer, and also get opinion from rebuilds shop. I just wanna make sure you factor this into your long term expectation. Best of luck. I feel excited even tho I'm not the one buying haha. |
I believe inboard spring makes it harder to properly match spring rate to the shock valving, and that's why "true" coil-over-spring setup is preferred. Please feel free to chime in if I'm incorrect.
As far as the rear spring location, there's a discussion in he below thread http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspen...ion-users.html |
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Another thing to think about. If you are running big meats on the rear. :D How much clearance is there between the top of the tire and the coilover? Camber plays an important part in this too. More camber, less clearance.
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I am not sure, but I'm lowered about an inch maybe a little more. Here is pic of my Nismo next to a stock one.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e03fa034ed.jpg
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Also I know it is not at the top of the highest settings.
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. There is really no need to brace the shock tower when you switch. Install on a true type coil is about 20 minutes per side, not including taking the spring bucket arm out and replacing it with an adjustable arm. If you're comparing AST to JRZ, I would go JRZ hands down. AST's dont seem to last long on heavier cars except for the BMW guys. I would be looking at JRZ and MCS if you want something at that level. I will be going with JRZ next year hopefully. |
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From what I remember however, the 4100 series had some pretty substantial reliability issues. They have had issues with the shocks leaking after one season, as well as failures in the design department.
Thats off the top of my head and some quick google searching. I know JRZ's will last 4-5 years with no rebuilds needed, as Sharif has a set on his personal GTR that have yet to leak or go soft since he put them on 4 years ago. He also has the older design that doesn't have bump stops or dust boots. |
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Anyone had any experience with the tein mono flex or other tein? They have a good adjustment range, keep the oem spring location. One of the guys at z1 really likes them on a co workers car and states his stance are too soft but he's going more and more towards track. Makes me a bit worried how firm the tein ride for daily driver crumbling ca roads.
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Amount of time is not the determining factor. The combination of type of usage and amount of miles determine needs for servicing/rebuilding. None of the high end stuff, if really being used, can retain its performance for that long without any servicing. For the competitive guys, shock rebuilds are part of the game. Oil degrades, shims and seals weaken due to heat and usage, etc, no way around it. However, there have been cases where people don't even feel anything wrong when shock oil had turned into goo. Go figure (not implying sharif). . |
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