BBK Comparison thread: Brembo vs. StopTech vs. AP Racing

[imag]

I realized that front brake ducting is going to require some pretty complex bits, especially because the front caliper is on the wrong side (front). I also realized that buying 2-piece rotors + ducting vs. a BBK minus about $1K for selling the Akebonos means that it's probably worth the extra money to just go with a BBK.

That leaves me a decision to make - which kit? I figure others are going through the same thing and there are multiple threads on each kit.

So this thread is a place to post real facts about each kit. Reputations are not the issue - each of these companies can make incredible brakes. What we need to compare are the specifics of the 370Z kits.

One metric is weight - what are the weights of the calipers and rotors for each kit?

Second, I would invite vendors or others to present actual data about why their brakes are good, what testing was done on this particular kit (again, generalizations about their product line are less important), etc. I think brake balance may be the most important thing - a great set of calipers and rotors that weren't actually tested and balanced with the car will increase stopping distances. For instance, I've seen the StopTech videos of testing on other cars - was that done for the 370 (or G37)?

I'll start:

Brembo, I think, still only have a front brake kit, which could actually increase overall stopping distances, although it would help with fade.

Then there's the silly stuff like colors:

Brembos: Black, Red, Yellow, Silver
StopTech: Black, Red
AP: Black, Red, Grey

[bullitt5897]

Dont forget Alliance! They have the best priced kit with the most options!!!









Here's what you're getting in total with the big brake kit:

Fully forged aluminum calipers
Anodized finish, your choice of Red, Blue, Black, and Gold
Laser engraved logo, no lame stickers
2 piece rotors with color matched hats (anodized also)
Your Choice of rotor design, slotted (as seen in the red kit pictures) or cross-drilled and slotted (as seen in the blue kit pictures).
Stainless Steel braided brake lines
Street compound pads included
Mounting brackets, hardware, and everything you need to hit the roads

Front: 8 Piston, 380mm/15" rotors
Rear: 6 Piston, 356mm/14" rotors

The 380mm rotors require 19" wheels. If you have 18" wheels, an 8 piston, 14" rotor is available to fit your setup.

Budget wise I find this kit much more reasonable than AP, Brembo, Rotora or Stoptech!

[RCZ]

Just buy the AP Racing 6-pot f 4pot rear and call it a day. I have heard they are the best kit for the money out right now...from very reputable sources...like professional race teams, not vendors who want to sell a product.

Buying anything bigger is dumb, you limit your choice in pads and pad prices skyrocket. Don't buy hype, buy performance if its performance you want.

[imag]

Originally Posted by RCZ

Just buy the AP Racing 6-pot f 4pot rear and call it a day. I have heard they are the best kit for the money out right now...from very reputable sources...like professional race teams, not vendors who want to sell a product.

Buying anything bigger is dumb, you limit your choice in pads and pad prices skyrocket. Don't buy hype, buy performance if its performance you want.

Yeah, it's basically between AP and StopTech. The only concern I have about the AP kit is that it was basically pieced together for this application - I haven't seen any testing on the resulting stopping distances. StopTech usually does a pretty good job on their testing before putting out a kit, although I'm not sure they did much in this case.

I also thought it might be good to have a resource thread for people to refer to in the future or on web searches. The weights, for instance, would be worth getting in one defined location. I actually thought you would care more than anyone about a factual comparison.

Bullitt - I totally appreciate the post. I'd personally shy away from that kit because I my guess is that it's more for show than anything (8 piston calipers are, from what I've read, totally unnecessary). That said, I think you're right that the information belongs on this thread.

[Mike]

I extremely happy with the front. Brembo gt caliper upgrade. It doesn't feel unbalanced, holds up great for 30 min sessions, and are relatively inexpensive. Brembo does make a rear kit also, I just think they aren't necessary.

Bullitt, the other kits don't use stickers either, the logos are silk screened on with paint.

[SOLISIMO]

Originally Posted by RCZ

Just buy the AP Racing 6-pot f 4pot rear and call it a day. I have heard they are the best kit for the money out right now...from very reputable sources...like professional race teams, not vendors who want to sell a product.

Buying anything bigger is dumb, you limit your choice in pads and pad prices skyrocket. Don't buy hype, buy performance if its performance you want.

You know I never even thought about the pads when considering bigger brakes, thanks for the heads up bc I was looking into the Alliance kit but just for looks bc I dont race the car.

How much more are the pads

[bullitt5897]

hey Mike I think I know one of the reasons your stockers got too hot... You were running your 18's + Aggressive pads? If that was the case couldnt the smaller diameter wheel help to shield the heat into the caliper and not allow enough airflow through the pads effectively oven baking your brakes?.... I dont know just a thought I had when I had the wheels off monday night and remembering how close your calipers were to the wheel wall.

[Mike]

I suppose that could be part of the problem

[bullitt5897]

I figured it was... cause I was doing hard braking and didnt get near as many problems but then again... brake pad combo really changes the game! Glad your liking the brembos! are you going to the Z/G meet? I think its next week...

[Mike]

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I figured it was... cause I was doing hard braking and didnt get near as many problems but then again... brake pad combo really changes the game! Glad your liking the brembos! are you going to the Z/G meet? I think its next week...

If I don't get called out to fly, I should be there. They haven't called me in over 2 months, so hopefully I'll be ok.

[AP - Chris_B]

Originally Posted by imag

The only concern I have about the AP kit is that it was basically pieced together for this application - I haven't seen any testing on the resulting stopping distances.

I'm not sure where this information came from, but it is absolutely 100% incorrect. AP Racing brake kits are highly engineered and tested. Stillen, who has been designing and building brake upgrades for almost 20 years and originally brought Brembo to the North American aftermarket, works closely with the OE and racing engineers at AP in the UK. These kits are in use by customers all over the world from day-to-day street driving to hot lapping.

Tests aren't published for a variety of reasons. However, the real test is in the field. I would suggest asking several people with AP Racing brakes who use them in a variety of ways how they feel about their purchase. Anything can be photographed/filmed/posted on a web site for marketing purposes, but AP Racing and Stillen apparently don't spend as much money there as others might. Reputations are much more important in the long run anyway.

One-off stopping distance tests are almost irrelevant. The stock brakes can lock up the tires and cause the ABS to kick in. If you want shorter 60-0mph panic stops, buy stickier tires. However, let's take those OE brakes through some canyons or out to an HPDE and see how they hold up (yes, including those fancy looking Sport brakes). Brake system upgrades are there to increase heat capacity while decreasing weight. These goals are diametrically opposed, so you better make sure you are working with a company that has a LOT of experience in this area. This is why there is a certain solid and predictable "feel" with AP Racing brakes that is not found in other systems -- a result of decades of experience. Any company with machine tools can hog out calipers out of chunks of aluminum and smother them with glossy paint. So let the buyer beware.

AP Racing supplies brakes and engineering support to top race teams all over the world -- and gives nothing away in terms of sponsorship. They are just not geared that way. All teams pay for their product. No logos on the hood or Danica Patrick hocking the brand on Versus. These teams have many choices and can get lots of stuff for free, but choose to buy AP because winning is what they do. How does around $30k for your Sprint Cup ride sound (that's per car and doesn't include pads, lines or brake fluid!)? Don't even ask about Formula 1!

Stillen is trusted to maintain this reputation not by piecing kits together, but engineering total brake system solutions. This partnership has been in place since 1995 and is still strong today.

Please excuse the rant, but I've heard this once or twice before. It is always shocking to see misinformation spread around without support or justification, but if it isn't laid to rest someone might start believing it is true.

Chris

[SOLISIMO]

Im sorry but Ive heard nothing but good things about AP brakes, and more than the others too

[RCZ]

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

hey Mike I think I know one of the reasons your stockers got too hot... You were running your 18's + Aggressive pads? If that was the case couldnt the smaller diameter wheel help to shield the heat into the caliper and not allow enough airflow through the pads effectively oven baking your brakes?.... I dont know just a thought I had when I had the wheels off monday night and remembering how close your calipers were to the wheel wall.

Nah, this has nothing to do with it....I mean no offense, I know you were throwing that out there.

Also, thats a lot of Bling my friend, I just have one ugly out of focus picture to answer you with:



AP Racing 6 Pots.

Originally Posted by AP - Chris_B

I'm not sure where this information came from, but it is absolutely 100% incorrect. AP Racing brake kits are highly engineered and tested. Stillen, who has been designing and building brake upgrades for almost 20 years and originally brought Brembo to the North American aftermarket, works closely with the OE and racing engineers at AP in the UK. These kits are in use by customers all over the world from day-to-day street driving to hot lapping.

Tests aren't published for a variety of reasons. However, the real test is in the field. I would suggest asking several people with AP Racing brakes who use them in a variety of ways how they feel about their purchase. Anything can be photographed/filmed/posted on a web site for marketing purposes, but AP Racing and Stillen apparently don't spend as much money there as others might. Reputations are much more important in the long run anyway.

One-off stopping distance tests are almost irrelevant. The stock brakes can lock up the tires and cause the ABS to kick in. If you want shorter 60-0mph panic stops, buy stickier tires. However, let's take those OE brakes through some canyons or out to an HPDE and see how they hold up (yes, including those fancy looking Sport brakes). Brake system upgrades are there to increase heat capacity while decreasing weight. These goals are diametrically opposed, so you better make sure you are working with a company that has a LOT of experience in this area. This is why there is a certain solid and predictable "feel" with AP Racing brakes that is not found in other systems -- a result of decades of experience. Any company with machine tools can hog out calipers out of chunks of aluminum and smother them with glossy paint. So let the buyer beware.

AP Racing supplies brakes and engineering support to top race teams all over the world -- and gives nothing away in terms of sponsorship. They are just not geared that way. All teams pay for their product. No logos on the hood or Danica Patrick hocking the brand on Versus. These teams have many choices and can get lots of stuff for free, but choose to buy AP because winning is what they do. How does around $30k for your Sprint Cup ride sound (that's per car and doesn't include pads, lines or brake fluid!)? Don't even ask about Formula 1!

Stillen is trusted to maintain this reputation not by piecing kits together, but engineering total brake system solutions. This partnership has been in place since 1995 and is still strong today.

Please excuse the rant, but I've heard this once or twice before. It is always shocking to see misinformation spread around without support or justification, but if it isn't laid to rest someone might start believing it is true.

Chris

Chris are you really surprised there is wrong information on the internet?

Want to send me a BBK? I promise to use it a lot Josh wants money for it or something crazy like that... hehe

[AP - Chris_B]

Originally Posted by RCZ

Want to send me a BBK? I promise to use it a lot Josh wants money for it or something crazy like that... hehe

Sure, why not? The day after I get a free BBK you can put your name on the list!

Chris

[Josh@STILLEN]

Another little tidbit on AP Racing.. excluding the full racing stuff..

The partial list of OE road car manufacturers supplied by AP Racing (does not include racing clients):

Alfa Romeo
Ascari
Aston Martin
Bugatti
Caparo
Caterham
Farbio
GTA
Gumpert
Holden HSV
Koenigsegg
Lotus
Marcos
McLaren
MG
Morgan
Noble
Pagani
Rossion
Seat
Spyker
Tesla
Tramontana
TVR
Ultima
Zolfe


Top Gear’s top lap time test:

Gumpert Apollo 1.17.1 (AP Racing)
Ascari A10 1.17.3 (AP Racing)
Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear spoiler) 1.17.6 (AP Racing & Brembo components)
Pagani Zonda F Roadster 1.17.8 (AP Racing)
Caterham R500 1.17.9 (AP Racing)
Bugatti Veyron 1.18.3 (AP Racing)
Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4 (AP Racing)
Maserati MC12 1.18.9 (Ferrari/Brembo)
Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0 (Ferrari/Brembo)
Ariel Atom 1.19.5 (Alcon)
Lamborghini LP560 1.19.5 (Brembo)
Ferrari Scuderia 1.19.7 (Ferrari/Brembo)
Nissan GT-R (R35) 1.19.7 (Brembo)
Lamborghini LP640 1.19.8 (Brembo)
Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8 (Brembo)
Koenigsegg CCX 1.20.4 (AP Racing & Brembo)
Ascari KZ1 1.20.7 (AP Racing)
Mercedes McLaren SLR 1.20.9 (AP Racing)
Ferrari 599GTB 1.21.2 (Ferrari/Brembo)
Ford GT 1.21.9 (Brembo)
Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3 (Ferrari/Brembo)
Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3 (Brembo)
Corvette Z06 1.22.4 (PBR)
Noble M15 1.22.5 (AP Racing)
Murcielago 1.23.7 (Brembo)
Zonda 1.23.8 (AP Racing)
Koenigsegg 1.23.9 (AP Racing & Brembo)
Aston Martin DBS 1.23.93 (Brembo)
Veritas RS III 1.24.2
Prodrive P2 1.24.3
Audi R8 1.24.4 (Brembo)
TVR Sagaris 1.24.6 (AP Racing)
Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 1.24.8 (Brembo)
TVR Tuscan 1.24.8 (AP Racing)
Noble M400 1.25.0 (AP Racing)
Lotus Exige S 1.25.1 (AP Racing front / Brembo & AP Racing rear)
BMW M3 Saloon 1.25.3 (Ate)
Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7 (Brembo)
Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8 (Brembo)
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0 (Ate)
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2 (Brembo)
Porsche 911 Carrera 2S 1.26.2 (Brembo)
Brabus Biturbo Roadster 1.26.2 (Brembo)
Lotus Exige 1.26.4 (AP Racing front / Brembo & AP Racing rear)
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (PBR)
Lexus IS-F 1.26.8 (Brembo)
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9 (Brembo or Ate, depending on year)
Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1 (AP Racing)
Aston Martin DB9 1.27.1 (Brembo)
Tesla Roadster 1.27.2 (AP Racing front / Brembo & AP Racing rear)
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2 (Brembo)
TVR 350C 1.27.5 (AP Racing)
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0 (Ate)
Roush Mustang 1.28.0 (StopTech or PFC)
Marcos TSO GT2 1.28.2 (AP Racing)
Subaru WRX Sti 1.28.2 (Brembo)
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22 (Brembo)
Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5 (Brembo)
MG SV 1.28.6 (AP Racing)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9 (Brembo)
Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9 (Brembo)
BMW Alpina Z8 1.29.0 (Ate)
Mercedes CL65 1.29.0 (Ate)
VW Golf W12 1.29.6 (Brembo - RS4 front / Gallardo rear)
Alfa 3.7 GTA Autodelta 1.30.0 (AP Racing)
Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0 (Brembo front / PBR rear)