Engine Noise :(

The Weapon · 09-22-2009, 04:33 PM

Ok.. So I've been fighting with Engine noise for the past week. I added 2 amps and a MTX RE-Q to my factory Bose w/ Nav.

Equipment:
RF Punch 600a4
RF Punch 250.1
MTX RE-Q
RCA Tsunami 4 Ch Shielded Cable
Speaker Cable: Stinger 9 Conductor Speedwire

Power & Grounds on Right Side of Car
Speaker wires on Left Side (RCAs no where near any of them)

I grounded the amps and RE-Q to the bolt that sticks out of the car where the factory amp was mounted. I bought a Multi-Meter but haven't a clue how to use it to check the ground. (But I really don't think it's my ground)

I have 4 awg Power cable to a distribution block that goes into 8 awg for each amp and the RE-Q is connected to that block as well.

The Remote Turn on is coming from the lighter outlet under the glove box because the Bose Remote wire isn't strong enough to power on 2 amps. I am not using the factory harness for grounds or power.

So Far:
1. RCAs connected to the amp disconnected from the RE-Q no engine noise at all.
2. Connect the RE-Q back up and it's there. It gets worse when i turn the gains up on the RE-Q.

The stereo sounds really good with the engine off or turned up 50% with the engine on but when turned down the noise is going to drive me nuts.

Has anyone else had expierence with the Re-Q and engine noise? I'm going to try to hook up a passive in-line converter tonight to see if goes away. I also moved the RE-Q a few times and I noticed it gets better and worse depending on it's location.

Also there's a sheild cable included on the stock harness. that connects to the bose subwoofer. I'm wondering if that had something to do with reomoving noise on the stock system. Any ideas about that?

If anyone has any tricks that might help it would be appreciated. I'm tempting to get the RF 360.2 or Audiocontrol Line Output converter but i hate to throw money at this and it not fix the problem.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Weapon

bigaudiofanat · 09-22-2009, 04:36 PM

Okay how good are your grounds? Did you sand them down to bare metal before hooking up any of the grounds? Also Where are you getting power from for the re-q?

speedfreak28 · 09-22-2009, 04:38 PM

I would run separate power and ground for the RE-q and see if this solves the issue, make sure wherever you have the amps and re-q grounded is bare metal contact. a bolt may not be good enough. Can you get a pic or 2 of everything?

speedaudio64 · 09-25-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak28

I would run separate power and ground for the RE-q and see if this solves the issue, make sure wherever you have the amps and re-q grounded is bare metal contact. a bolt may not be good enough. Can you get a pic or 2 of everything?

Both you and bigaudiofanat are correct. The noise is probably caused by a ground or a power wire. Sometimes you hook up something and get engine noise. A lot of people think that it is automatically a faulty unit. This is usually not the true case. It is were the power is coming from and how it is getting to the unit that usually has a noise in the power wire. In your case Bigaudio is right you should not of had the power wire hooked up tot he dis block. It should be hooked up to a wire in the fuse block or behind the head unit. Getting power directly from a power wire coming for them engine bay has tons of interference in it, that your re-q probably amplified. I also think that you should put it back in. The re-q dose so much more than your line converter and the boes is still messing with the signal before your amps are getting it. That is why you are saying that you are only hearing a bit better sound quality and not a lot. Keep up the good work bigaudio and I can see that speed know some stuff as well. Glad you know each other big and speed.

ConchZ2 · 09-26-2009, 09:17 AM

Engine noise in the vehicles stereo speakers. It’s a pretty common problem when an aftermarket radio or amplifier is installed. The most common description of the noise is a whining sound that gets louder as the engines RPMs increase. This is very annoying and sometimes embarrassing. If your new automotive stereo system is causing unwanted engine noise the fix can be relatively simple.
The normal cause of engine noise in the stereo system is the ground. In any 12 volt system there is a 12volt + and a 12volt -. Often times a vehicle manufacturer will ground all of the dash instruments to one central location. This is great for them but bad for car stereo enthusiasts. When we hook up our new stereo we often times (if done properly) will use an installation wire harness. This wire harness will match up to the vehicles wiring exactly. So your ground and power are coming from the fuse block and a central ground location (vehicle standard).
A simple solution can usually fix this engine noise problem. Change the stereos ground location. Most times this can be done and un-done (if it doesn’t help) very easily. Behind the stereo will be anywhere from 10 to maybe 16 wires coming out of the stereo into a wire harness clip. Between the stereo and the first wire harness clip you will need to cut the ground (Black 12V-) wire.
This will break the ground and the stereo will not turn on at this point. The part of the wire that is coming from the back of the stereo will need to be lengthened and run to an alternate grounding location. Most of the time there is a bare metal dash frame under the upholstery that you will see when the stereo is removed from the dash.
With a digital multi-meter in hand you may test for a good ground source. Make sure to set the meter to test for continuity. You can make sure that the meter is set correctly by touching the lead ends together, this should give a beep or chirp from the meter letting you know that there is continuity. Clip one of the meter leads to a known good ground (somewhere in the door jam usually works) and then you may begin looking inside the dash cavity for a ground location.
Once you have a beep or chirp from the meter you know you have found a ground location. We’ll only know that this is a good location or not once the ground is hooked up and we turn the stereo on. Until then, cross your fingers and hope for the best. Hooking up the stereos ground wire to the new ground location is up to you. Every situation is different so you may need a crimp end or some other modifications inside the dash cavity to get the ground wire hooked up.
Just changing the stereos ground location will often resolve the engine noise problem. When this doesn’t work we resort to a “Ground Loop Isolator” or “Inline Noise Suppressor”. There are a few different styles that are used for different applications.
There are noise suppressors that are used in the power line, in the RCA/audio cable lines and some with 3.5mm stereo cable input and output. You must determine which is right for your application.
Some stereos will only create this whining when there is an auxiliary audio input used. These will usually be something like an MP3 player. There are ground loop isolators for use with MP3 players.

jrniehaus · 10-31-2009, 02:35 AM

I had a hu replaced with no ground loop problems. Then I installed an amp and replaced all the speakers as well. Now I have a ground loop, which is annoying. Does this same technique work for my situation, since I grounded the amp to the frame in the middle of the car? Just checking, or if I have to do something totally different to get rid of my new ground loop. Thanks in advance.

bigaudiofanat · 10-31-2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrniehaus

I had a hu replaced with no ground loop problems. Then I installed an amp and replaced all the speakers as well. Now I have a ground loop, which is annoying. Does this same technique work for my situation, since I grounded the amp to the frame in the middle of the car? Just checking, or if I have to do something totally different to get rid of my new ground loop. Thanks in advance.

How and where did you run your rcas and power wires? Did you sand the ground spot down to bare metal before putting the ground wire on? Were did you ground your head unit too? Also what kind of amp is it?

The Weapon · 09-23-2009, 10:06 AM

I'll get some pictures up tonight. I was so tired yesterday and took a break.

bigaudiofanat · 09-23-2009, 10:53 AM

Good idea both taking a brake and pictures. You never want to work on something when you are tired and flustered.

Division · 09-23-2009, 02:00 PM

What strikes me odd is moving the Re-Q makes the noise change. That either points to RFI (which I strongly doubt) or a bad/loose ground. Leave the Re-Q in place and fiddle with the ground connection- does that have the same effect? If so then you have a good direction to go.

2fast4thelaw · 09-23-2009, 04:29 PM

I think you might have a bad piece of equipment somewhere in your chain with an open ground.

Try disconnecting each component one by one. For the EQ, bypass it and see if it is the culprit.

speedfreak28 · 09-23-2009, 04:56 PM

The RE-q is a line out convertor, Im willing to bet it is RFI like Division said, try runnin a separate power wier and better ground and see what happens.

Division · 09-23-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak28

The RE-q is a line out convertor, Im willing to bet it is RFI like Division said, try runnin a separate power wier and better ground and see what happens.

Ahh, I didn't realize it was a Line out converter, I thought it was an equalizer... lrn2google... That being understood, it almost has to be RFI.

I took a look at the Install sheet for the Re-q... Could you tell us where it is physically installed? If you're extending the speaker wires to the back of the car, you just created some 8ft antennas. Those wires are picking up any interference, then sending that 'dirty' source to your amplifiers... Any noise on those lines is now 'amplified', (couldn't think of a better word for it) and a whole lot worse than it once was. The fact that turning your gains up on the Re-q makes the noise worse, almost confirms that the noise is on the lines 'before' the Re-q...

bigaudiofanat · 09-23-2009, 04:57 PM

He has already said that if he disconnects the rcas from the amp of from the re-q the noise goes away. Like I said check your grounds also you might want to get power to your re-q another way other than the dis block.

bigaudiofanat · 09-23-2009, 05:28 PM

That could be the problem. But like we said check your grounds and also more the power wire from the dis block and get power threw it from another way other than from the dis block. If the re-q is in the trunk you might want to try moving it closer to the from that way the speaker wires are shorter. The ones I have installed were put under the seat.

09-22-2009, 04:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
The Weapon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 286 Drives: 370Z Tour/Sport Blk Rep Power: 3372	Engine Noise :( Ok.. So I've been fighting with Engine noise for the past week. I added 2 amps and a MTX RE-Q to my factory Bose w/ Nav. Equipment: RF Punch 600a4 RF Punch 250.1 MTX RE-Q RCA Tsunami 4 Ch Shielded Cable Speaker Cable: Stinger 9 Conductor Speedwire Power & Grounds on Right Side of Car Speaker wires on Left Side (RCAs no where near any of them) I grounded the amps and RE-Q to the bolt that sticks out of the car where the factory amp was mounted. I bought a Multi-Meter but haven't a clue how to use it to check the ground. (But I really don't think it's my ground) I have 4 awg Power cable to a distribution block that goes into 8 awg for each amp and the RE-Q is connected to that block as well. The Remote Turn on is coming from the lighter outlet under the glove box because the Bose Remote wire isn't strong enough to power on 2 amps. I am not using the factory harness for grounds or power. So Far: 1. RCAs connected to the amp disconnected from the RE-Q no engine noise at all. 2. Connect the RE-Q back up and it's there. It gets worse when i turn the gains up on the RE-Q. The stereo sounds really good with the engine off or turned up 50% with the engine on but when turned down the noise is going to drive me nuts. Has anyone else had expierence with the Re-Q and engine noise? I'm going to try to hook up a passive in-line converter tonight to see if goes away. I also moved the RE-Q a few times and I noticed it gets better and worse depending on it's location. Also there's a sheild cable included on the stock harness. that connects to the bose subwoofer. I'm wondering if that had something to do with reomoving noise on the stock system. Any ideas about that? If anyone has any tricks that might help it would be appreciated. I'm tempting to get the RF 360.2 or Audiocontrol Line Output converter but i hate to throw money at this and it not fix the problem. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Weapon __________________ Boosted Performance Comp Turbo - Tuner- CJM Fuel Return- Modified Berk CBE- ZSpeed Stage 4 Clutch - Southbend Flywheel - Tuned by Seb ~650whp - HKS Coilovers - SPL - Focal Audio 4 way Active - Audiocontrol DSP - Work CR 2P

09-22-2009, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	Okay how good are your grounds? Did you sand them down to bare metal before hooking up any of the grounds? Also Where are you getting power from for the re-q? __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

10-31-2009, 02:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
jrniehaus Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Phx,AZ Posts: 45 Drives: 370z 6spd sport mdl Rep Power: 16	question about my ground loop issue I had a hu replaced with no ground loop problems. Then I installed an amp and replaced all the speakers as well. Now I have a ground loop, which is annoying. Does this same technique work for my situation, since I grounded the amp to the frame in the middle of the car? Just checking, or if I have to do something totally different to get rid of my new ground loop. Thanks in advance.

09-23-2009, 10:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
The Weapon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 286 Drives: 370Z Tour/Sport Blk Rep Power: 3372	I'll get some pictures up tonight. I was so tired yesterday and took a break. __________________ Boosted Performance Comp Turbo - Tuner- CJM Fuel Return- Modified Berk CBE- ZSpeed Stage 4 Clutch - Southbend Flywheel - Tuned by Seb ~650whp - HKS Coilovers - SPL - Focal Audio 4 way Active - Audiocontrol DSP - Work CR 2P

09-23-2009, 10:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	Good idea both taking a brake and pictures. You never want to work on something when you are tired and flustered. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-22-2009, 04:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
speedfreak28 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: south jersey Posts: 247 Drives: 05 ram, 79 z28 Rep Power: 16	I would run separate power and ground for the RE-q and see if this solves the issue, make sure wherever you have the amps and re-q grounded is bare metal contact. a bolt may not be good enough. Can you get a pic or 2 of everything?

09-26-2009, 09:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
ConchZ2 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: connecticut Posts: 329 Drives: 09 370Z red 6sp sprt Rep Power: 17	Engine noise in the vehicles stereo speakers. It’s a pretty common problem when an aftermarket radio or amplifier is installed. The most common description of the noise is a whining sound that gets louder as the engines RPMs increase. This is very annoying and sometimes embarrassing. If your new automotive stereo system is causing unwanted engine noise the fix can be relatively simple. The normal cause of engine noise in the stereo system is the ground. In any 12 volt system there is a 12volt + and a 12volt -. Often times a vehicle manufacturer will ground all of the dash instruments to one central location. This is great for them but bad for car stereo enthusiasts. When we hook up our new stereo we often times (if done properly) will use an installation wire harness. This wire harness will match up to the vehicles wiring exactly. So your ground and power are coming from the fuse block and a central ground location (vehicle standard). A simple solution can usually fix this engine noise problem. Change the stereos ground location. Most times this can be done and un-done (if it doesn’t help) very easily. Behind the stereo will be anywhere from 10 to maybe 16 wires coming out of the stereo into a wire harness clip. Between the stereo and the first wire harness clip you will need to cut the ground (Black 12V-) wire. This will break the ground and the stereo will not turn on at this point. The part of the wire that is coming from the back of the stereo will need to be lengthened and run to an alternate grounding location. Most of the time there is a bare metal dash frame under the upholstery that you will see when the stereo is removed from the dash. With a digital multi-meter in hand you may test for a good ground source. Make sure to set the meter to test for continuity. You can make sure that the meter is set correctly by touching the lead ends together, this should give a beep or chirp from the meter letting you know that there is continuity. Clip one of the meter leads to a known good ground (somewhere in the door jam usually works) and then you may begin looking inside the dash cavity for a ground location. Once you have a beep or chirp from the meter you know you have found a ground location. We’ll only know that this is a good location or not once the ground is hooked up and we turn the stereo on. Until then, cross your fingers and hope for the best. Hooking up the stereos ground wire to the new ground location is up to you. Every situation is different so you may need a crimp end or some other modifications inside the dash cavity to get the ground wire hooked up. Just changing the stereos ground location will often resolve the engine noise problem. When this doesn’t work we resort to a “Ground Loop Isolator” or “Inline Noise Suppressor”. There are a few different styles that are used for different applications. There are noise suppressors that are used in the power line, in the RCA/audio cable lines and some with 3.5mm stereo cable input and output. You must determine which is right for your application. Some stereos will only create this whining when there is an auxiliary audio input used. These will usually be something like an MP3 player. There are ground loop isolators for use with MP3 players.

09-23-2009, 02:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Division Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central FL Posts: 199 Drives: 2009 370Z Sport Rep Power: 16	What strikes me odd is moving the Re-Q makes the noise change. That either points to RFI (which I strongly doubt) or a bad/loose ground. Leave the Re-Q in place and fiddle with the ground connection- does that have the same effect? If so then you have a good direction to go.

09-23-2009, 04:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 17	I think you might have a bad piece of equipment somewhere in your chain with an open ground. Try disconnecting each component one by one. For the EQ, bypass it and see if it is the culprit. __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

09-23-2009, 04:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
speedfreak28 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: south jersey Posts: 247 Drives: 05 ram, 79 z28 Rep Power: 16	The RE-q is a line out convertor, Im willing to bet it is RFI like Division said, try runnin a separate power wier and better ground and see what happens.

09-23-2009, 04:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	He has already said that if he disconnects the rcas from the amp of from the re-q the noise goes away. Like I said check your grounds also you might want to get power to your re-q another way other than the dis block. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-23-2009, 05:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	That could be the problem. But like we said check your grounds and also more the power wire from the dis block and get power threw it from another way other than from the dis block. If the re-q is in the trunk you might want to try moving it closer to the from that way the speaker wires are shorter. The ones I have installed were put under the seat. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

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