Two 10's vs One 12

Race · 09-10-2009, 10:43 AM

I'd like to get some opinions on this sub decision. I'm looking at doing a very similar install to bigaudiofan's CA install. (i.e. components in the doors, kenwood hu and a zenclosures sub box)

I listen to quite a bit of hip hop/rap, so I like a lot of bass. I'm not terribly interested in breaking dishes in the neighborhood, however. Given the size of the Z's interior, I'd appreciate some thoughts on the two options.

I'd be willing to spend extra on the subs, so lets not get too too bogged down in cost concerns. I'm more interested in thoughts on SQ, control, and the potential to hit fairly hard when showing off.

Thanks a bunch. Love this forum and my new Z!

bigaudiofanat · 09-10-2009, 11:00 AM

I am going to recommend for your style of music a single 12. Not only will it be able to reproduce more frequency's but it will be able to get louder. And not take up as much room as 2 10's nor will it need more power than 2 10's would take depending on what sub you are looking at.

2theextreme · 09-10-2009, 11:21 AM

What about for us hard rock/heavy metal folks? Still one 12? I do switch back and forth between rap and metal....so both will be played.

bigaudiofanat · 09-10-2009, 11:41 AM

In the case of rock, I would say you can go with either. A 10 will be a bit tighter hitting than a 12 but some of your rap will not be as loud with a 10. I listen to everything and went with a 12 inch Image Dynamics Q sub. Great sub and great SQ while still offering a lot of bass.

speedfreak28 · 09-10-2009, 03:28 PM

its a common misconception that a 10 is tighter than a 12. ten jsut peaks at a higher frequency giving that illusion. A 12 does have the ability to extend a little lower than a 10. In sheer output two 10's will be louder based on cone area alone. It all comes down to preference really, eitehr can be suited to any type of music, it all depends on how u have the sub eq'd

kannibul · 09-10-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Race

I'd like to get some opinions on this sub decision. I'm looking at doing a very similar install to bigaudiofan's CA install. (i.e. components in the doors, kenwood hu and a zenclosures sub box)

I listen to quite a bit of hip hop/rap, so I like a lot of bass. I'm not terribly interested in breaking dishes in the neighborhood, however. Given the size of the Z's interior, I'd appreciate some thoughts on the two options.

I'd be willing to spend extra on the subs, so lets not get too too bogged down in cost concerns. I'm more interested in thoughts on SQ, control, and the potential to hit fairly hard when showing off.

Thanks a bunch. Love this forum and my new Z!

IMO, 2x10 would be better. There is a tendancy for 12's to be a bit more sluggish, where 2x10's would (tend to) be tighter.

Also, 2x10 has more surface area than 1x12 - so there's more air being moved.

kannibul · 09-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak28

its a common misconception that a 10 is tighter than a 12. ten jsut peaks at a higher frequency giving that illusion. A 12 does have the ability to extend a little lower than a 10. In sheer output two 10's will be louder based on cone area alone. It all comes down to preference really, eitehr can be suited to any type of music, it all depends on how u have the sub eq'd

Not the case. Ever look at a bass guitar cabinet? 12's are very rare. 10's are common. 15's tend to be muddy/flabby.

bigaudiofanat · 09-10-2009, 05:55 PM

I though this as well until I started looking at the real SQ builds in cars that people get serious about sound quality and all. They are running 12's for there lows and 8' or 10's for there mids. I have a 12 and love it I thought the same thing about 10's until I got my ID Q 12 and love it.

FuszNissan · 09-10-2009, 08:19 PM

I always went with 10's for better bass and tighter sound. Didn't wan't a lot of distortion. I was going for clean sound. Some people don't really care though. They just want something loud. It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I rocked 3 10's in my 350Z

bigaudiofanat · 09-10-2009, 08:37 PM

Wow 3 that is to much for me lol. Yes I am one of those that care about what I am listening to and how it is being heard. The quality of some 12's are worse than 10's but others can be much better. 10's can do a lot but a 12 can do much more for what it can reproduce. Say you have a song that goes down to 23hrz "just a example" The 10 is going to fade out or clip because it can not reproduce that freq. But a 12 will be able to reproduce it just fine. Some people say well the higher freq of a bigger sub can not be reproduced. That might be true but your only going to have your sub reproduce 60hrz and below so that dose not affect it.

speedoflife · 09-10-2009, 09:41 PM

I'd go for a 12 if you like the deep stuff. Use the extra space available to make your box a ported one. And for the most part, a 12" will not tend to be "sluggish." You might start dealing with nonlinear (aka distortion) with an 18" burping at twice it's RMS, but for these applications, ever sub will be just as fast and have the potential to be as accurate as the other. The only advantage to 10's is that you can take advantage of coupling and gain a few dB's.
And I have seen 4 10's hit over 140 dB (TermLab) at 10 htz, so it really just depends on what you can fit/power!

speedfreak28 · 09-10-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Not the case. Ever look at a bass guitar cabinet? 12's are very rare. 10's are common. 15's tend to be muddy/flabby.

actually its very true, The enclosure volume has more to do with the driver having tight response rather than driver diameter. a 15 in a small enclosure will be more responsive than a 10 in a large enclosure. A smaller enclosure tends to be more responsive but you lose a little on teh low end.

2fast4thelaw · 09-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

I always went with 10's for better bass and tighter sound. Didn't wan't a lot of distortion. I was going for clean sound. Some people don't really care though. They just want something loud. It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I rocked 3 10's in my 350Z

(3) 10's will triple your distortion because your pushing (3) cones on one amp, especially if your amp is running 2 ohms or lower!

Plus 1 on the single 12!! Trust me you will have all the bass you can stand with a single 12 and it is capable of creating pain in your ears. Just use a "sealed" 1.2 to 1.5 cu ft box so the cone can travel its full X-Max efficiently. Just push it with a good clean amp of at least 250 watts.

You might get equivilent output with a pair of 10's and they will hit hard, but they wont drop as low as a single 12. I have always gotten the best SQ from a single sub. Running a single sub at 4 ohms will give you the lowest distortion. Plus a single 12 is cheaper than a pair of equivelent 10's and your amp will have to work much harder to drive the pair.

In the right box/amp/sub combination a 12 is NOT sluggish in the least! Especially in such a small car.

speedoflife · 09-11-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

(3) 10's will triple your distortion because your pushing (3) cones on one amp, especially if your amp is running 2 ohms or lower!

In the right box/amp/sub combination a 12 is NOT sluggish in the least! Especially in such a small car.

Distortion has nothing to do with number of subs. It can be created if you are running the amp at a lower impedance that it is designed, but even then you would have to run the amp past its capabilities to run into harmonic distortion. Your ear cannot hear the distortion that is created by merely lowering the impedance. 3 10's will lend to just as much "distortion" (aka voltage 'jumping' between the output rails of an amplifier or static distortion caused by poor internals) as 1 12 will

You are correct in saying that, but the 'sluggishness' has nothing to do with the car. Alignment and compression does have to do with car size though!

FuszNissan · 09-11-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

(3) 10's will triple your distortion because your pushing (3) cones on one amp, especially if your amp is running 2 ohms or lower!

Plus 1 on the single 12!! Trust me you will have all the bass you can stand with a single 12 and it is capable of creating pain in your ears. Just use a "sealed" 1.2 to 1.5 cu ft box so the cone can travel its full X-Max efficiently. Just push it with a good clean amp of at least 250 watts.

You might get equivilent output with a pair of 10's and they will hit hard, but they wont drop as low as a single 12. I have always gotten the best SQ from a single sub. Running a single sub at 4 ohms will give you the lowest distortion. Plus a single 12 is cheaper than a pair of equivelent 10's and your amp will have to work much harder to drive the pair.

In the right box/amp/sub combination a 12 is NOT sluggish in the least! Especially in such a small car.

I ran 2 JL 1 1000 amps. There was no distortion. 3 JL 10wv2's It would take the breath right out of you, tight and hard

09-10-2009, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Race Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: FL Posts: 3 Drives: 09 370Z PG A7 Rep Power: 16	Two 10's vs One 12 I'd like to get some opinions on this sub decision. I'm looking at doing a very similar install to bigaudiofan's CA install. (i.e. components in the doors, kenwood hu and a zenclosures sub box) I listen to quite a bit of hip hop/rap, so I like a lot of bass. I'm not terribly interested in breaking dishes in the neighborhood, however. Given the size of the Z's interior, I'd appreciate some thoughts on the two options. I'd be willing to spend extra on the subs, so lets not get too too bogged down in cost concerns. I'm more interested in thoughts on SQ, control, and the potential to hit fairly hard when showing off. Thanks a bunch. Love this forum and my new Z!

09-10-2009, 11:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	I am going to recommend for your style of music a single 12. Not only will it be able to reproduce more frequency's but it will be able to get louder. And not take up as much room as 2 10's nor will it need more power than 2 10's would take depending on what sub you are looking at. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-10-2009, 11:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
2theextreme RIP Tony :( (1969-2015) Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 18,802 Drives: '14 Mustang GT/CS Rep Power: 67	What about for us hard rock/heavy metal folks? Still one 12? I do switch back and forth between rap and metal....so both will be played. __________________ SpinTech Mufflers, Airaid CAI, JBA H-Pipe, Lethal Performance Over Axle Pipes, MMD Quarter Panel Louvers, Cervini's Ram Air Type IV Hood, Carbon Fiber Radiator Cover, GT500 Rear Valance, Quad Exhaust Tips

09-10-2009, 11:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	In the case of rock, I would say you can go with either. A 10 will be a bit tighter hitting than a 12 but some of your rap will not be as loud with a 10. I listen to everything and went with a 12 inch Image Dynamics Q sub. Great sub and great SQ while still offering a lot of bass. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-10-2009, 05:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	I though this as well until I started looking at the real SQ builds in cars that people get serious about sound quality and all. They are running 12's for there lows and 8' or 10's for there mids. I have a 12 and love it I thought the same thing about 10's until I got my ID Q 12 and love it. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-10-2009, 03:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
speedfreak28 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: south jersey Posts: 247 Drives: 05 ram, 79 z28 Rep Power: 16	its a common misconception that a 10 is tighter than a 12. ten jsut peaks at a higher frequency giving that illusion. A 12 does have the ability to extend a little lower than a 10. In sheer output two 10's will be louder based on cone area alone. It all comes down to preference really, eitehr can be suited to any type of music, it all depends on how u have the sub eq'd

09-10-2009, 08:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	I always went with 10's for better bass and tighter sound. Didn't wan't a lot of distortion. I was going for clean sound. Some people don't really care though. They just want something loud. It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I rocked 3 10's in my 350Z __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

09-10-2009, 08:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 853	Wow 3 that is to much for me lol. Yes I am one of those that care about what I am listening to and how it is being heard. The quality of some 12's are worse than 10's but others can be much better. 10's can do a lot but a 12 can do much more for what it can reproduce. Say you have a song that goes down to 23hrz "just a example" The 10 is going to fade out or clip because it can not reproduce that freq. But a 12 will be able to reproduce it just fine. Some people say well the higher freq of a bigger sub can not be reproduced. That might be true but your only going to have your sub reproduce 60hrz and below so that dose not affect it. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

09-10-2009, 09:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
speedoflife Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: MS/TX Posts: 268 Drives: '06 Pontiac G.P. Rep Power: 16	I'd go for a 12 if you like the deep stuff. Use the extra space available to make your box a ported one. And for the most part, a 12" will not tend to be "sluggish." You might start dealing with nonlinear (aka distortion) with an 18" burping at twice it's RMS, but for these applications, ever sub will be just as fast and have the potential to be as accurate as the other. The only advantage to 10's is that you can take advantage of coupling and gain a few dB's. And I have seen 4 10's hit over 140 dB (TermLab) at 10 htz, so it really just depends on what you can fit/power!